The other topic interested me, you were talking about fighting Helena, but it got me thinking as to how Helena should be played, and whats she's capable of. Here's my thoughts, comments?

I find Helena to be an agressive character, provided you mix attacking and throwing correctly. Her stance for one thing is useful for avoiding highs, throws, and certain mids. So you can attack, and if you think your opponent is gonna throw or jab, you go into stance and punish accordingly. She's also got a lot of good lifters and stun moves, enough where your opponent will want to counter and you throw. 9K, 7K, Bokuho 2P+K all launch automatically for hella damage. 33P, P+K, 8K all launch on counter and cause a stun. 33PP is also a good mixup in case of your opponent blocking your 33P, 33P also has some wierd properties and tends to go through certain pokes. :heh heh: Also, her BT is AMAZING. BTP+K is a launcher that does amazing damage, BT 66K is really long ranged. Her BT throw is her most powerful throw. Her BT PP is 2 highs instead of a HM, so you've got amazing mixups from BT, and Helena's got enough moves that stun the opponent and put her into BT. 66KP, 1K, 1P, 2KK. Bokuho has the same thing. 8K, 2K+F, PP2K, all these stun and put her into Bokuho for an immediate mixup.

She can even be agressive at like, mid range. Her 66KP is amazing. Instant Bokuho P+K is long range. 66P+K has good range. She's just got amazing tools for being aggressive (so many stun moves), and amazingly good mixups. Don't abuse her PP like you would with other characters, though, since its a HM. Use PK instead...or Bokuho PP, which is good, too, since you can mix up between M and L, and the mid version launches for a lot. With Helena's amazing BT, Bokuho and stun game, she can definetly be agressive. THen again, i may be a bit baised. ;)

I haven't faced a good Helena yet, but I do know if I do I'll be seeing a lot of low/mid attacks. It's unfortunate that my only recourse is to try and counter (wish DOA had parrys like SC2).

hmmm, my friend is an expert Helena player.
Bokuho is an amazing combination, the only problem is its slow to perform.

If you frequently play as Helena, you'll notice that she's extreamly faster then in DOA3, that and her counters are alot stronger (but in DOA2 whos aren't?)

Helena's strong kick is unable to be counterd, but its much slower then her average kick, which makes an easy, yet powerful 3 hit combo.

The problem with Bokuho is that once its entered it leaves Helena open for low grab attacks.

Helena is really tough, its a pity she seemed so toned down from DOA2...

slow to perform Bokuhu?

I don't understand, i get into BKH and start doing attacks almost instantaneously. I use BKH2F+K as my main low because i can do it out of BKH so fast, and this goes for a lot of her other moves. I sometimes do BKH P+F just because itll tech crouch whatever they try...

And whats this "strong kick" you mention?

But yeah, in DOA2, she was sooo good, her 33P would dodge like, 2P's, it was so broke and stunned better and everything. Sucks that she's been toned, but at least with DOA3, i got Hitomi. ;)

Well, I'm looking at in from a Tina players point of view. Depending on where, and how she goes into Bokuho is what I ment when I said speed. I mean, the average stance leaves her open for a throw like shining wizard, untill she actually enters the stance. I think the wisest way to enter it is useing uryubanda, that way the combo not only prevents a throw but deals some damage.

And her strong kick, hmmm I can't remember its name, or combination, but its the left trigger on default. I can never remember her silly Pi Qua Quan move names, just how to counter them.

Luckly for me, they beefed up Tina for DOA3 ^_^

So its F+K then?

But yeah, Helena should only be open in the stance if the Helena player is a fool. You can easily cancel out of it. I do 2P+K~F 1P+K~F 1P+K~F etc just for style and to confuse the opponent, and she cancels in and out of it REALLY fast.

If you're sitting there in BKH, of course you're gonna get hit, but why would you just sit there in the stance without using it properly is my question to your opponents.

Aggresive... very aggresive. Your opponent should be blocking in fear. I once played against a guy that nearly had Helena down pat, that was scary. He was like a mind reading machine. He would break your block in seconds and once he started up you had to hold him or the match would be his.

If you use Bokuho well like i assume the person you're talking about does, then thats not always a good idea because the throw from Bokuho is conveniently her best throw, which is the same as her 236P+F, and that does MAJOR damage if you mess up a hold. Plus, she has the fast low with huge range from bokuho, 2F+K, so most likely either of those options will hit a holding opponent a lot. And if they hold low and you anticipate it. Bokuho 2P+K does major damage, or P+K into a wall into a combo.

Of course, mid holding does screw Helena in the long run sadly.

That is true. It's kinda of amazing I'm 5-2 with that guy too. I used Jann against him so he was eating my mids like nobodies business. :D

Okay here i am!!!
I use her as agressive as possible!!!! (DoA3) (DoAU is about to be released in a month)
An unexpected throw here, Bokuho there, some unfinished combos.
-->so my enemy is surprised and confused!!!
If some tries to counter my not finished combo they are unprotected to my throws!!!!! (is it grammatically correct???)

*evil smile*

Your last sentence is understandable, to be like, 100% gramatically correct though,

"If someone tries to counter my unfinished combo, they are vulnerable to my throws"

But yeah, i get what you're saying.

Helena in DOA:U is WAAAAAAAY better than she is in DOA3. She's practically unusable in DOA3, but in DOA:U she's good and definetly usable (hell, she's my main character in DOA:U)

its mostly because of a different in mid punch and mid kick counters, making some of her mid kick moves, like KKK and 9K much more usable when you couldn't really throw them out a lot in DOA because of the risk of mid counters.

Well, i can't remember her in doa 2 hardcore.that was ages ago!!!
(yup i'm pretty old)
those numbers are somehow related to the numbers on the keyboard of a pc, right???

err, yeah, the keypad on the right of the keyboard.

Look at it like a joystick, 5 is neutral, 6 is forward, 4 is backwards, so its kind of like this

789
456
123

u/b u u/f
b n f
d/b d d/f

:shocked: OMG! u must be good ;) at :ayane: but i'm awesome with :helena: my bro tried to beat me* hes good* with :hayabusa: like 30 times and i was Helena the whole time then
it was

:helena: 27 :hayabusa: 2

LOL!

I always use Helena agressive except for fighting against Ein and Tengu.

I always fight really aggresive with Helena, but I never got why people thought that Helena wasn't as good anymore in DOA 3, my speed increased a lot and with her new air combos and kick combo's I became a lot better, her throw that keeps your opponent open for attacks is also really useful, these will be all gone in DOAU, so tell me how does she get better ?? I'm not saying that she is bad or not as good in Hardcore or Ultimate but I'm just confused how you can be better with a person with less moves ??

I've noticed a combination of the two (aggressive and defensive) works out just fine when it comes to helena. I don't use helena, so it's kinda hard for me to explain what i'm saying. My bro was an player of helena. He wasn't the best, but his basic method of play always did justice for him.

if you do 33P, it'll go under jabs and over low punch, just something to keep in mind since its her best move.

i think that helena has an excelent ballance of agressive and deffensive and queen helena yeah they did take out good moves from DOA3 but helena still has some amazing combos. plus she has kool counters.

yeah, her counters are amazing :wub: but everything is from Helena :helena: