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Title: Diy Voltage Stabilizer
Description: low cost project A2


zackmania007 - March 31, 2005 10:33 PM (GMT)

component needed

1. Kapasitor Elektrolitik 3300uF 25V (4 unit)
2. Kapasitor Elektrolitik 2200uF 25V (4 unit)
3. Kapasitor Elektrolitik 100uF 25V (8 unit)
4. Strip board (1 unit)
5. Kabel speaker (1 meter)
6. Kotak plastik (1 unit)
7. Fuse holder (2 unit)
8. Fuse 10 amp (1 unit)
9. Rubber Grommets (2 unit)
10. Cable lugs (2 unit)

Price (Price perunit in RM)

Item 1. RM2.80 x 4 unit
Item 2. RM1.30 x 4 unit
Item 3. RM0.35 x 8 unit
Item 4. RM1.50 x 1 unit
Item 5. RM2.50 x 1 meter
Item 6. RM3.00 x 1 unit
Item 7. RM0.15 x 2 unit
Item 8. RM0.20 x 1 unit
Item 9. RM0.20 x 2 unit
Item 10. RM0.30 x 2 unit

Total kos= RM 27.70

Tool Needed.

1. Soldering iron
2. Soldering iron stand
3. "Timah" secukup rasa.
4. Long nose plier
5. Cutter
6. Glue
7. Multimeter (optional)
8. Power supply



user posted image





khguan - April 1, 2005 03:44 AM (GMT)
dude,

u may need to add a fuse for protection purposes.. ;)

ur configuration is only about 22800uf... well... u may or may not c improvements.. depending ur car... i think putting more caps will be better...

check out this link

this is my DIY VS.. total caps value is 82000uf.. can serve as a stiffening cap as well... good for ICE.. :tb: B) n it is for sale too! if u lazy wanto DIY.. then can find me.. :P :lol:

zackmania007 - April 1, 2005 08:12 AM (GMT)
nice work hah!!!
how much u sell to me???
if reasonable i buy from u...

alanltl - April 1, 2005 11:59 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (khguan @ Apr 1 2005, 11:44 AM)
dude,

u may need to add a fuse for protection purposes.. ;)

ur configuration is only about 22800uf... well... u may or may not c improvements.. depending ur car... i think putting more caps will be better...

check out this link

this is my DIY VS.. total caps value is 82000uf.. can serve as a stiffening cap as well... good for ICE.. :tb: B) n it is for sale too! if u lazy wanto DIY.. then can find me.. :P :lol:

khguan, 82000uf cant serve as sniffing cap lah... if really want.. 82000 not even enough for HU leh.. dont said other ICE stuff loh

khguan - April 1, 2005 12:21 PM (GMT)
yah... i know those real Stiffening cap is much bigger de value... onli for normal ICE set up... if high power kenot lar... :lol:

but it really got diff for de ICE when installed de VS


votech - April 1, 2005 01:35 PM (GMT)
stiffening cap for ICE usually only useful if its of 1 Farad or larger.

rule of thumb, when u put too many caps in in parallel, it may cause undesired resonanace which may effect other things that u dun know. its also not necessary to have take into consideration the total farad for votage stablelizaition in this case...when ur capacitance is too large, it may end up as a load to the alternator as well. Also, unless low ESR rating caps are use, the stablelisation effect will not be great or significant. Low ESR rating caps are not cheap....good stuff dun come cheap and cheap stuff seldom are good. this is my own experience working in the industries for more than 2 years. I guess my company will be very happy if we can save money by using cheap components instead of ordering them from reputable industry suppliers like Farnell and RS Components.

khguan - April 1, 2005 01:55 PM (GMT)
how large is ur "too large" ??? can u be more specific but dat?

kitkat80 - April 1, 2005 02:18 PM (GMT)
guan, ur one is Huge... ;) but ever wonder why even if u add up all ur small caps to make one farad, its not as big as a single one farad cap???

khguan - April 1, 2005 03:29 PM (GMT)
mine is still far smaller than 1 farad.. onli 0.082farad..

wat do u mean? i know wat u saying.. n y is dat?

kitkat80 - April 1, 2005 04:14 PM (GMT)
because it is constructed for different type of application and also different type of ESR rating. but one thing to judge which capacitor is better or not...

lets say two caps with same capacity and voltage rating...the bigger one is the better one because it uses more material to build the cap. smaller size to achieve the the same capacity is done by roughing out the metal surface to increase the surface area which increase the charge storage capacity but such construction is not able to hold the charge well and causes more leakage...which is not good because this is a form of energy loss or u can call it power dessipation.

Got a chance, try to flip across RS or Farnell catalog and check out the caps...the price is not important but the specs are...each caps in there are guranteed by datasheet unlike pasar road stuff who we're not sure its from where.

hehehe..anyway, all these just for info sharing from what i know lah..dun worry too much k... ;)

Shackks - April 2, 2005 12:35 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (votech @ Apr 1 2005, 09:35 PM)
I guess my company will be very happy if we can save money by using cheap components instead of ordering them from reputable industry suppliers like Farnell and RS Components.

Farnell and RS Components is catered for spot buy and not for mass or volume purchase.

In Msia, there are a couple trading house who does sells quality components in cheap aand lose packs.

votech - April 2, 2005 12:41 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Shackks @ Apr 2 2005, 08:35 AM)
QUOTE (votech @ Apr 1 2005, 09:35 PM)
I guess my company will be very happy if we can save money by using cheap components instead of ordering them from reputable industry suppliers like Farnell and RS Components.

Farnell and RS Components is catered for spot buy and not for mass or volume purchase.

In Msia, there are a couple trading house who does sells quality components in cheap aand lose packs.

yup, knew that...this is just two example which pple know well...and me company bought more from. btw, we only purchanse component for in house use eg. machine maintainance, some small machine imporvement and add-on projects and etc. my company core business is not assembling final product but we are into power semiconductor product (we make those components lah)

khguan - April 2, 2005 05:15 AM (GMT)
hmm... i onli know basic stuff niah... those so technical n deep stuff i duno lar.. as i said.. i'm still not yet a sifu... onli VS seller niah.. :P :P :lol: :lol2:

khguan - April 2, 2005 05:17 AM (GMT)
so if i say anything wrong.. pls dun shoot me.. :lol: :lol:

just correct me.. B)

kitkat80 - April 2, 2005 05:20 AM (GMT)
no worries lah...we're here to share. that's y i pointed some of the things like too "tualiap" liao and ect....hahaha...

khguan - April 3, 2005 06:16 PM (GMT)
well.. yesterday i brought back my stuff to my hometown n start making some of my VS n my dad came n c wat i'm doing... i explained y i used those caps n y r there so many values of caps...

well.. my dad says dat using capacitors mayb be an old technology in voltage stabilizing.. but it is still very reliable.. like there is one cantonese saying " kiu umm pah kao, chui kan yiu sau.." :P :lol:

n he also say... compared to ICs.. n transistors.. thay may be compact but they may not work properly when it is heated up or under heavy load... cos they are made into tiny circuitry in de ICs...

my dad studied an electronic course n took up radio repair as part time when he was young... so all those old thechnology stuff he knows lar...

darkwizard - April 3, 2005 07:50 PM (GMT)
Wah...good leh you got some good reference walking around you leh...instead of using theory only...

Ok...Just want to ask some newbie question on EE stuff... Did anyone put Diod into the VStabilizer? I know that diod is used to maintain constant one direction current flow to get DC. "I heard of bridge diod but.....hahaha....don't know wether it is usefull to VStabilise the car......i lost my touch in those KH form 3 stuff electronic things..."

So hoping those degree in EE field should be able to explain...hehehehe...

P.S: I drop my EE field last time and switch to Computer science hahaha....wrong move...regret now.... :(

kitkat80 - April 4, 2005 12:31 AM (GMT)
the diode only allow current to flow in one direction or sometimes we call it an electrical one way valve. the bride diode which u're taking about is actually called a bridge rectifier a device to achieve full wave rectification in an AC to DC application. Anyway, it will not help in stablizing the voltage.

solid state voltage regulation is not cheap if you need to make it reliable. btw, usually they are used together with caps coz the solid state circuit only helps to regulate but not stablize and the regulation is also a fuction of the input voltage so if your input voltage fluctuate, it may fluctuate as well.

khguan - April 4, 2005 03:07 AM (GMT)
wah.. its getting deeper.. i know wat is a diode n a bridged rectifier... i always use it when i do electronic projects few years back...

i think wat darkwizard mean is.. putting a diode to protect from accidentally connect de wires in reverse...

btw.. wats de diff between regulate n stabilize? not same meh?

kitkat80 - April 4, 2005 03:40 AM (GMT)
its two different thing.

1) Voltage regulation means to control the ouput voltage to a desired value (for example 12V) given a wide range of input voltage (lets say 10V to 18V input). This one is done by using a highly doped semiconductor PN junction in the reverse region (breakdown region). Of course, some other solid state devices need to be incorparated to control the voltage variation over different temperature to be as minimal as posible. The ready to use device will be voltage regulator ICs.

2) Voltage stabilization means to minimise the min and max value (or we call it the ripple voltage) when given an output that fluctuates due to load switching and etc. Caps can be used for such application as u already know well how they works.

Also, please take note that ur caps will not be able to regulate any voltage...for example...if given an input voltage between 10 to 18V, ur caps will follow whatever votage that apppear on its terminal. What is does is just to smooth out the fluctuation if any. Hope this help.

khguan - April 4, 2005 05:07 AM (GMT)
oh... ic... now i know liao.. kekeke :lol:

i tot voltage regulator n voltage stabilizer is same... :P

kitkat80 - April 4, 2005 05:10 AM (GMT)
The "Stablelization" term is more often reffered to as filtering in electonics...

anyway, if its the same...u wouldn't have voltage regulator and voltage stabilizer in the 1st place. :P

darkwizard - April 4, 2005 04:02 PM (GMT)
wah.... very detailed explaination :clap: :clap: .... now i really regreat droping my EE course last time.... Thanks KitKat Ko.... :tb:

kitkat80 - April 4, 2005 04:09 PM (GMT)
hahaha...darkwizard, no problem... ;)

CyborgR - April 12, 2005 04:40 AM (GMT)
Hi! I'm trying to compare the total caps of the products talked here..Would like to know how big the difference is..Votech..mind to share yours?Coz planning to get one..
Zackmania:22800uf
Khguan:82000uf
Votech:??????

kitkat80 - April 12, 2005 05:02 AM (GMT)
CyborgR, i just can tell you that Votech use a different concept to design the VS where during R&D stage, we have verified that the total capacity of the VS is not so important after all. We have even tested out the circuit that we found around the DIY pages, use from as little as 3 caps up to one design with around 50 caps in it where the prototype size is about 4 times the size of the one u currently have in your car however, the best one is the final one that we have right now. We've use measurement tools like scope and spectrum analyser during the development stage to verify the effectiveness of each design and also, we have tried to simulate the performance using different quality caps and can only say one thing...good caps is essential. There's a guy from ZTH who DIY the VS with up to 3 or more design already however according to him, nothing is close to what votech have. We have also manage to test it against pivot where some of the guys here have witnessed that with their own eye that votech's beat pivot's.

anyway, just a simple guideline for DIYer. What's the difference between high quality cap versus low quality one. The main difference is the capability of the cap to retain the charge without discharging or in other words, no or very minimal leakage. therefore, this is why i say, more doesnt mean better than just a few pieces of those high quality used in branded one. When ur leakage is more, the caps discharge more frequently and have to be recharge back as frequent, therefore, lifespan will be shorter and esspecially when it operates at closely near the max voltage rating of the caps...therefore, branded VS use much higher voltage rating for their caps to ensure better lifespan...so this is not something stupid to do...but more on reliability and performance issue. Also, 85C and 105C are different thing where 105C caps are more stable when exposed to heat. Also, when exposed to same heat, lifespan is also better.

Most DIYer have misjudge the quantity of caps and total capacity of the caps as the determining factor of the VS performance which why most think its better than branded one which i dun really fully agree. It depends on other things also...

khguan - April 12, 2005 07:34 AM (GMT)
CyborgR,

de total caps value is not important... wats more important is de stabilising effect n de circuit design n construction..

my DIY VS 82000uf is just a feature... u can get a single cap wit 82000uf n use it. n u wont get the same effect...

votech's stabiliser is not using caps concept to stablize voltage...

kitkat80 - April 12, 2005 10:08 AM (GMT)
yup...khguan is right...its the effect that counts. u can put in 1000caps yet it does not stablelized but caused parellel resonance effect with create more fluctuation instead.

IceBikers - April 17, 2005 10:53 AM (GMT)
so u guys can post the final version n reliable n safe DIY plan ? n tools n materials??

slow_no. - April 27, 2005 10:32 AM (GMT)
last Sunday 24.Mei.2005.......I went to the MyPeugeot.net D.I.T Session at Kelana Jaya MPPJ Stadium parking lot......looking around at thier Peugeot cars n I saw this one Peugeot using D.I.Y Voltage Stabilizer in the black box + transparent cover.+ relay + indicator....
and have a few chit chat with the owner.. he xplain everything why he add the relay n the indicator....quite interesting though..........

ufo - May 2, 2005 12:46 PM (GMT)
wahahahhaa, all zerotohundred wannab DIYers' hiding here??? finallyyyy.... ufo has found u maniac diyers :lol: wow... can see kitkat experience in electronics here.. kekeke , :D suggestion, a better caps... try RUBYCON BLACKGATE :D

khguan - May 2, 2005 01:28 PM (GMT)
hiding? i think dats is not de rite word to use... <_<

we are here bcos here is more like a big family where we all get to know each other better... n we can share our knowledge n experiences... we are not here to hide... :no:

ufo - May 2, 2005 02:36 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (khguan @ May 2 2005, 09:28 PM)
hiding? i think dats is not de rite word to use... <_<

we are here bcos here is more like a big family where we all get to know each other better... n we can share our knowledge n experiences... we are not here to hide... :no:

u seems to b a serious man, come on.... where ur sense of humour :D

kitkat80 - May 3, 2005 01:55 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ufo @ May 2 2005, 08:46 PM)
wahahahhaa, all zerotohundred wannab DIYers' hiding here??? finallyyyy.... ufo has found u maniac diyers :lol: wow... can see kitkat experience in electronics here.. kekeke , :D suggestion, a better caps... try RUBYCON BLACKGATE :D

ufo...good that u've found us..hehehe..so how's ur trip to mars. Anyway, welcome to Area 51..hehehe...

btw, u sure know about the good stuff....goodie..at least someone here share the same tought...hehehe...i dun think many pple know what is RUBYCON BLACKGATE in the 1st place..hehehe...


g88 - May 3, 2005 02:38 AM (GMT)
For those whose dunno....CLICK HERE

kitkat80 - May 3, 2005 03:29 AM (GMT)
hehehe...i like the phrase "forget polypropylene or other foil types". hehehe...u guys know what...to get the same capacity with polypropylene or other metal film caps, it'll be many times more expensive and that cap gonna be huge and heavy..hehehe...and good thing is that newer technology already available to fabricate high quality (forget about pasar road stuff, the dun belong to this category) no polarized electrolit caps which have quite similar performance compared to the poly and metal film caps in the market.

Anyway, one reason why such capacitor is in need is because our everyday electrolit caps are well knowed to have wide tolerance, high ESR and leakage which is not suitable for serious power supply application especially for audio and signal filtering application. Therefore, more and more pple looking into possibilities to improve the current electrolit caps to make its performance as close as possible to those poly and similar type of caps because the cost will be definately lower and cheaper on capacity to capacity comparison not to mention the size...hahaha...

Rubycon, definately a well known caps maker :tb:

khguan - May 3, 2005 04:45 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ufo @ May 2 2005, 10:36 PM)
QUOTE (khguan @ May 2 2005, 09:28 PM)
hiding? i think dats is not de rite word to use...  <_<

we are here bcos here is more like a big family where we all get to know each other better... n we can share our knowledge n experiences... we are not here to hide... :no:

u seems to b a serious man, come on.... where ur sense of humour :D

hmm... well... i'm a funny guy most of the time... well sometimes just no mood.. then i seemed to be serious lor... kekek :P

ufo - May 3, 2005 01:19 PM (GMT)
:D hehehe, it is indeed a gd CAP.. u know y? there's RUBY inside :)) wahahahahaha :lol:

nyapheng - May 3, 2005 02:23 PM (GMT)
yep RUBYCON is a good caps
it found on my mother board and help me to clock my CPU and RAM higher
hahahaha.

ufo - May 3, 2005 02:32 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (nyapheng @ May 3 2005, 10:23 PM)
yep RUBYCON is a good caps
it found on my mother board and help me to clock my CPU and RAM higher
hahahaha.

waaa, u mus b a gd clocker:> how u clock ram, clock motherboard i know .. ram ?




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