I and many other gamers were so upset by the '07 rave that we vowed not to attend if it appeared on the '08 Schedule. I received an e-mail from Mary today, which cued me to visit the web-site Sure enough you're planning a rave, so I'm thinking you can count on a significant drop in attendance this year.

I'm thinking it's in your best interest to cancel the rave, and send out a mass e-mail stating that fact ASAP.

I can't say I was huge on the kids running around (the rave), but it didn't bother me either. Just not my thing. However, it seems to me that the focus of the con is getting diverted away from a "gaming" convention and toward a "little bit of everything" convention with things like the rave. I would like to see the focus go back on gaming. However, it’s not my con, so I'll simply suggest this as it’s what I would like.

I'm into historical miniature gaming, which was sorely lacking in 2007. There was at least one game I saw going, but that wasn't much. I have run historical games in the past so I pull my part, but was to busy to prepare properly for a game this last time. I ran one at the 2006 con and the turnout was slim. I advertised on TMP, possibly the most visited historical miniature gaming website in the world that covers all genres, and my responses from people were they wouldn't go because there were no games they were interested in other than what I was running and they wouldn't buy a pass for just one game.

My suggestion is to see why some other cons in the US are so successful and see what the differences are. Look at Gencon, and Historicon, and Kublacon in CA just to name a few. From my observations, they focus 100% on games and really put out an effort to bring in types of games that aren't properly represented. There are tons more miniature games at those cons. I know you can’t snap your figures and have the perfect con for everyone, but it’s something to work toward.

I'm also a big fan of Steve Jackson Games, but if they make up 25% of the games played, like this year, that’s just a bit scary. Variety is a good thing. My suggestion is if possible to put a good effort into game master recruiting.

I’m not financially strapped, so I’m happy to buy a pass and also run a game, but comparing your compensation scheme for game masters to those of other cons, you have to run about twice as much gaming at Congames for the same compensation you would get at most other cons. Adjusting this might encourage more people to run games.

OK, that’s it for now. I don’t mean to damage any egos, but think it was the right choice to post my thoughts so the con can improve. From my perspective, you appear to focus on things that are interesting to teens and the twenty some crowd. If that’s your target audience, you are probably on the right track. If you want the 25+ crowd, please consider my comments. Thanks for reading.

I agree with Thunder. The Rave actually was way too close and too loud for the gamers in the room next door. And since these were miniatures gamers, who probably spend more in the dealer's room than anyone else.....I would re-think the Rave or place it in a different building. Keep the focus and priority on the games and you can't go wrong.

I completely agree with what's been said above. The rave was WAY too close and WAY to loud. It was so bad, I ended my game early and went up to my room. Had a headache the rest of the evening.

If you have it, PLEASE choose a different spot, away from the other games. :no:

The Rave was an experiment.

Some times experiments are good, and sometimes bad. With every event that is run, there are always people that love it, and ones that hate it. And a large number that are in between and do not care.

To address the Noise Issue, the Rave will be in a separate building from the gaming and across the parking lot.

I believe this will allow us to have a Rave and Not step on gaming that is taking place, As such I would hope to see JoeCthulhu and his friends as there will no chance of hearing the Rave from 300+ feet away across the parking lot and in another building.

ConGames try lots of things, ConGames will continue to try lots of things, it is what allows it to continue to grow and become a major regional event. While 20 or 30 years ago the only thing to play was historical events role-playing came along and shook the industry to the core, then came other major games German Board Games, Card Games, and Electronic Games. Have all impacted gaming over the years. Some things have come and gone others are here to stay.

I would hope Historical Games can find a good home with this convention (as I do all types of games). There is a user that posted some Napoleonic’s just last week. I am a lover of all games, and can not encourage people enough to run there favorite games at conventions.

But do not just run them; hook new players into the fun and excitement of your favorite game, we all have a favorite game that never gets played anymore. It used to be popular players just slowly drifted away and stopped playing, all games are Doomed to obscurity if there are no players. Miniature games are especially quick to fail as there is such a huge investment required to buy armies not to mention painting them (young people seem to have lost the model building, miniature painting bug that was so common years ago.)

I guess, I hope we all work together as a community to build ConGames into a huge event that can be a great place to play all our favorite games. If you know of someone that can run an event, have them contact the Con and run the event you love to play, if that does not work, run it yourself and find new players that you can keep the game alive with. (also new players do not come from the 25+ pool of people)

(As a point of Reference I looked at a standard RPG running 4 hours for 6 people as a baseline on comp badges)
Gen Con - 16 hours
KublaCon - 8 hours
Historicon - 4 hours (if submitted on time)
Origins - 16 hours
ConGames - 16 hours (half off after 8 hours)
Strategicon - 8 hours
DragonCon – 20 hours

So ConGames may not be the lowest or the highest, Congames is comprable to GenCon and Origins. And really 4 hours a day is not that much.

I will point out that most of these require you to prepay for your badge and get paid back after the show. A number of these also require payments for all events at the Con that you play in.

ConEvents comps judges for free taking GMs on there word that they will run there events until they show that is not reality. Plus games run at Con Events at no cost.

Thanks for your reply and your thoughts on the matters brought up here. It sounds like its a development in the right direction.

No Problem,

I remember it was louder than I thought it was going to be, but saw some people rocking and rolling there dice while walking through the rooms adjacent to it. There was desscussion in the post con rap up meeting however that everyone agreed we would move it away from the Gaming next year.

SO HERE"S THE INFORMATION ON THE "RAVE"

We're having a dance, put on by the same people, on Saturday night from 8-11.

The dance is in A building, which is completely and totally separate from any other gaming activitites. Its all the way across the parking lot.

We're also having a drum jam Friday and Saturday on the lawn, which should ALSO be non-invasive to gamers.

So here's my email: mary at icehouseproductions.com

We DO hear what our gamers and attendees say. Last year's rave WAS an experiment. We do stuff every year. You guys need to keep giving us both feedback AND support while we continue to create the best possible con for everyone.

THANKS!! Mary

As a parent of a teenager, the Rave provided a party for the under 21 crowd that made them feel as they were apart of the con. As adults we game, we talk and for a lot of us we are able to attend the numorus parties and adult oriented events in the evenings. Teenagers that attend the Con are the future of gaming and a Rave is the thing that is big right now with the under 21 set. I am glad that it is being moved to an area that will not interupt games in progress, but come on we are souding like our parents, just try to remember you were once a crazy teen and no one understood us either.

Not to derail the intent of this thread, but...

A little birdie tells me that the Arizona MIBs take this statement as a very welcomed compliment.


and I'm behind PCG all the way. Keep trying new things. The foundation is solid and as we find new and different things to build upon it, we will grow this convention and this community into a much greater thing
(cue patriotic music)

Sounds like a good compromise for all regarding the rave. Good choice, I'm sure with different buildings everything will work out.

Thank you for the reply on the location of the Rave. Glad they're having it for the "young ones" and also glad it's away from the general gaming area.


Mark