Part I:

GW’s Regiments of Renown units are seldom considered with any really interest by the Orc and Goblin (O&G) community… Hopefully, we can change this.

First off, you can find the RoR PDF file on the UK GW site, in the Warhammer section (or click here). It’s an easy download; print it off and stick a copy inside the back cover of your codex. Be sure to print off the “Cursed Company” PDF too (they’re a RoR unit as well).

What is a Regiment of Renown for Warhammer?… well basically, we’re discussing mercenaries here. They fill a “rare” spot in your O&G army and can often add a unique flavor to your army – and possibly an edge, since your opponent may not be expecting them.

I think the biggest deterrence to using them for O&G is the fact they aren’t green. I’ll get to this topic in a bit in Part II – but first, let’s look at these units.

***Be sure to read the note on “pikes” at the beginning of the larger PDF. They’re definitely something to take note of.

I’m going to be a little more loose-lipped than we normally are regarding stats and point costs, since this is free information and GW has made it available to everyone already. (No copyright infringement is intended… this is a review/discussion)


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On the list, there are only a few units you cannot take in your O&G army. Those are:

1—Giants of Albion
2—Long Drong’s Slayer Pirates
3—Asarnil the Dragonlord
4—Birdmen of Catrazza

(This is pretty minor really)


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Okay so let’s get our hands dirty! We’ll go down the list…

Vespero’s Vendetta
For 125 pts you get 5 figures with 6+ saves and a couple average WS. You pay a lot for Verspero’s mask. They are cheap to add to at +10 pts each, which can dilute the cost of the mask a little. Their main benefit is gaining skirmishers that cause fear.

Overall: I found them a bit high priced and I think their agility may be wasted on the ground-pounding might of the greenskin waagghh. Not being particularly fast, and with the other duelists being pretty wimpy, I think you’d be better off spending some of these point on a more standard Rare choice. Vespero, himself, maybe something to look at for naval action.

Pirazzo’s Lost Legion
PIKES and CROSSBOWS, and in the same regiment! How cool is this! For 160 points you get a 10 man regiment (w/ Standard Bearer and Musician). You get light armor too. Aside from better stats, Pirazzo isn’t anything impressive, but that’s okay… Pirazzo taught his men to take a charge like no other!

Overall: An interesting option for the O&G. They don’t outrun the rest of your army, and no one in they’re right mind will want to charge them – and pikes aren’t like spears, so charge away. Keep them between your big blocks and have some fun, just don’t let them get charged in the flank or rear.

Ricco’s Republican Guard
Much like Pirazzo’s Lost Legion, but without crossbows and with heavy armor… for 20 points more.

Overall: A slightly harder group than Pirazzo’s. You’ll have to weigh crossbows and light armor against having heavy armor and a slightly more expensive price for hire. This will depend a lot on the role you give them in you army.

Beorg Beartstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo
These guys come with a higher price tag than a giant: 255. At 8 pts a piece (for extras) there must be a catch, right? Well, you get a crazed werebear! That work for you? Each bearman is essentially slightly better than an ‘ard grot. Beorg on the otherhand wears no armor and has no weapons (using his claws). He’s got a good ward save though. The saving grace for this unit is the two rules that apply to it as a whole: frenzy and their magic banner.

Overall: This is an attrition unit. They’re setup to go for the charge, cause a lot of hits, and have an okay save. Their crux is in their average strength… This would be a good unit against low toughness troops, but I’d question their success against higher toughness and/or nice armor saves… you might need your horn blower for those.

Voland’s Venators
Need some knights? This is about the best you’ll get for your greenskins. How does heavy armor, shield, and a barded warhorse sound? Oh, and don’t forget the 14” charge! You also get you’re standard bearer and musician in there too. Voland is pretty much on par with the rest of the Venators, aside from having the slightly higher stats that most of the RoR boss get – no magic stuff here.

Overall: Hey, like I said, if you want some knights... This is it. I think you’re paying a little more for Voland, but it might not kill ya.

The Alcatani Fellowship
More PIKES! If Ricco’s unit was at one end of the spectrum, Pirazzo’s unit would be between them and the Alcatani Fellowship. These guys are just like Pirazzo’s except you don’t get the crossbows and you take a goblin-like hit in your WS.

Overall: Go with Pirazzo’s. You’re going to want to add numbers to the unit either way, but the -1 point cost per man here isn’t going to be worth the hit to WS, given the strength of the hits.

Marksmen of Miragliano
Ruglud’s got some competition! These guys have some crossbows too. Per person they are cheaper than the Armored Orcs too.

Overall: Go with Ruglud’s. You get Maggot’s banner and choppas for the same price. You pay a little more for the overall, fleshed-out regiment, but it’ll make a difference in combat resolution.

Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs
Here’s another chunk of points – 245 for 5 guys! On the other hand, at 13 points each, additional figures are seriously cheap. Al Muktar is a pretty good hero-class boss and Sheikh Shufti isn’t bad either. The magic banner has good potential as well, but no armor and just a shield makes them somewhat vulnerable.

Overall: By fleshing them out, you might consider them for a large unit of cavalry… maybe. The front rank is capable of seriously ripping stuff up against low-to-medium toughness. You could screen them with some wolf riders and wipe out warmachines really fast with these guys. If you do pursue that tactic, watch out for chukkas though.

I think the door is wide open for additional tactics with these guys. They’re a strong group, once given some more bodies.

Oglah Khan’s Wolfboyz
These are you super-wolf-rider hybrids. Think fast cavalry wolfies with light armor. You also get a lot of gear with these guys.

Overall: You need to compare prices. Six of these guys will cost you more than 2x5 wolf rider units. If you’re considering these guys, I suggest looking more at flank charges in support of your regiments than warmachine hunting. Definitely fit in the O&G army without modifications.

Lumpin Croop’s Fighting Cocks
90 points, eh – that’s cheap for a RoR unit. These guys are excellent, skirmishing archers. Just be warned, five charging wolf riders would probably roll them up in combat no problem.

Overall: Well, greenskins aren’t the best arrers. If you need some, these would be a good group to have… but it’ll cost you a rare slot. I’d flesh them out a bit and try hard to find a hill. I’m thinking they’d be pretty good at defending warmachines, given some numbers. They’re pretty cheap too (additional individuals). Stay out of close combat though.

Tichi Huichi’s Raiders
Skinks on Cold Ones… hmmm.. They’ve got some good armor saves from scaly skin, shields, and being mounted on cold ones. And you can’t be rundown, which can make them great for hit and run tactics.

Overall: 250 points for 6 figures and 22 pts for each additional one… added to skink leadership and stupidity… not good. Cold-Blooded helps, but I don’t think you want these guys sitting in CC too long. I’d pass.

Leopold’s Leopard Company
What, more pikemen? Yep! These guys are pretty stout too.

Overall: Leopold is a good RoR boss, without having magic items, but – aside from the immune to psychology rule – these guys aren’t much different than Pirazzo’s or the Fellowship (somewhere in between, but closer to Pirazzo’s group). If you know you’ll be facing an appropriate force, then I guess you could consider them, but for the extra points (50 pts base and 2-3 pts for each additional man), they’re out of reach for general (I’ll play anyone) use.

Golgfag’s Ogres
This one needs some attention – as the “ogres vs. trolls” debate seems to be pretty commonplace these days. I think I can see why! Ogres trade ‘vomit’, ‘stupidity’, ‘regenerate’, and ‘river/stone’ and get rid of some points, gain a standard and a musician, and leadership. Did I say they’re less points?

Overall: If you’ve got the points (starting out you’ll be higher), I’d agree… go with ogres over trolls. They’ll do the job just fine and fit in the O&G army well too. The troll figs look great (and the Golgfag figs don’t, IMO), but with Ogre Kingdoms coming out soon… I think we’ll find better figs to use.

Bronzino’s Galloper Guns
Here’s another interesting one…. But watch out! It’ll eat you’re rare choices up faster than a gobbo next to a horseroast. This RoR unit allows you to get cannons… not the powerful monster cannons of the empire (but close). Bronzino is a bit of a letdown (lack of flavor), but being able to spread your cannons out and use Bronzino as an independent hero (with leadership 8) to bolster another greenskin unit, is a plus in my book.

Overall: Like I said, they’ll consume your rare options like the plague. I don’t find Bronzino overpriced (rather reasonable, actually) and cannons are always welcome. The mobility of the group is outstanding (everything has M8, including the cannons!). I think their suited for larger armies, but I don’t think their horrible.

Braganza’s Besiegers
More competition for Ruglud’s boyz! This is the only unit in the game that is given the “pavise”… which make these guys interesting. My only question is “Why didn’t Lucio Braganza get a pavise?” He must be a “tuff guy.”

Overall: IMO, a variation on Ruglug’s armored orcs. These guys are tough as well… given that the pavise rules say nothing about the added benefits of heavy armor added to the pavise… hello 1+ armor save! Costs are about the same as Ruglud’s boyz too. What you need to determine on your own is how Maggot’s banner and animosity weigh out in comparison. Not a bad unit, IMO.

EDIT: After further researching this, after Kenshin brought it up. These guys have 3+ saves against shooting and 5+ in CC. The 1+ save is incorrect. I still think these guys are good though.

The Cursed Company
Well… they’re undead… what can we say? They’ve got a good hero-level boss with a magic sword, magic gem, and good statline. They’ve got a nice banner, some armor, cause fear, and have some great fluffy special rules. …I guess that’s a lot! You also pay for it.

Overall: These guys are the most expensive (being outpriced only by the Giants of Albion). Richter is nothing to be ignored and should last a while. The skeletons are okay, but how do you feel about WS2? If you can see you’re way to making some dust goblins, then this isn’t a big step down the same road… and the combination of the two units could be really neat in an army.

Synopsis:
(Scale of 1 to 10; 1 being dust collectors and 10 being “I only get to buy one unit?!?”)

Vespero’s Vendetta 2 **good boss, duelist aren’t much, over-priced
Pirazzo’s Lost Legion 6 **good, general pikemen unit with a fun twist
Ricco’s Republican Guard 6 **tough pikemen unit
Bearmen of Urslo 4 **quantity over quality CC unit
Voland’s Venators 6 **knights
The Alcatani Fellowship 3 **go with Pirazzo’s unit
Marksmen of Miragliano 3 **go with Ruglud’s boyz
Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs 6 **good bosses, need to be fleshed out with numbers
Oglah Khan’s Wolfboyz 4 **super wolf riders… need tactics to justify higher cost
Lumpin Croop’s Fighting Cocks 6 **great archers, sub-gobbo CC, skirmishers
Tichi Huichi’s Raiders 2 **hit-n-run skink cavalry with stupidity
Leopold’s Leopard Company 3 **go with Pirazzo’s unit, unless facing fear/terror
Golgfag’s Ogres 7 **if you have the pts, better than trolls, need better figs
Bronzino’s Galloper Guns 6 **good boss, cannons, can eat up rare choices quickly
Braganza’s Besiegers 7 **super-tough crossbows
The Cursed Company 6 **great boss and above-average undead troops, pricey

You can find Part II of this article here, which deals with converting RoR units into greenskins.

Feel free to reply with comments about your own take on RoR units with relation to O&G armies below.

Hmmm... I put a ton of work into this, but I'm sure there are different perspectives.

No one has comments/suggestions or their own take on a unit?

This is a GREAT write up, thanks for the work. Just curious, how would you rate ruglands vs the others?

I like the werewolf idea and am planing to do that.

Cool! A Reply! Wooohhooo! hehe Thanks.

I think Ruglud's group is handsdown better than the Marksmen of Miragliano. I'm of this opinion b/c of Maggot and orc vs. human stats. The Marksmen aren't horrible compared to Ruglud's Boyz, but why pass up the +2CR banner? Also, special vs. rare slot costs need to be considered. GW has the Marksmen as a suggested RoR unit for the O&G -- I don't think it's that great of an idea and that there are better options.

Now Braganza’s Besiegers is an all together different story. I like these guys! I intend to make them (in greenskin form). They're tough as nails (pavise + heavy armor!!! That's frickin' awesome!) They're basically the same price. The trade:

Give up:
Maggot's banner
Orc vs. Human stats
Choppas (won't likely be charging though)

Get:
You get rid of that 1-2 animosity rule
You get better LD
You get the pavise for against shooting AND combat (on top of the HA, both have)

Something to consider: Ruglud's fills a special slot in a normal O&G army and Braganza’s Besiegers would fill a rare slot. I wonder what the use of both in the same army would be like (especially with a good size hill you don't have to leave). I doubt any opponent would expect 2 units of crossbows in an O&G army -- the surprise might cost the opponent the win alone.

I have ROA, and like I said, I intend to make the BB. I'll no doubt field them together sooner or later.

EDIT: When you're done with the werewolf and it's unit, let me know. I'd love to toss your pic in the Part II article!

Terrific job Gutsnakka. This is awsome. A very well written and will help me loads in the future and give me ideas for conversions and new innovative things to add to my army. The reviews on each unit is great! Thank you soooo much!

And not to mention a part 2!

Thanks, Monkeyville! Glad you dig it.

I'm free to ask questions of too! (anyone)

I'm interested to hear if anyone has a different opinion on any of the units too. I didn't have much to work with other than the PDF and my imagination (not having used the RoR units before, myself).

If someone has a composition or tactical idea for them - toss it in here. I'd really like to discuss these units - I think we're ignoring units that could potentially help us a lot.

EDIT: There's a Part III (and possibly Part IV) coming too! *wink*

I've tried my hands at a Dogs of War / Regiments of Renown army once, so I can give some feedback on some of them. In general they are expensive, which might hurt a true horde army. They bring in new strengths however, and those might be new edges your army might need against an experienced opponent. What I liked most was the characters inside the unit. However, these guys are the whole reason each regiment is so darn expensive.

True. They're very powerful, as most Pikemen units are, though the "hero" that goes with them makes this unit more powerful. Their weakness is the flanks of course, so keep your flanks covered. In the game I played, they could handle anything my opponent could dish out when he attacked from the front, but eventually I lost the unit to a side charge.

I feel these are really badass knights. I'd take them anytime with a DoW army, and they definitely are better than boarboyz (sorry guys).

Can't wait for the new Ogre Kingdoms to remake this unit again. A mainstay in my DoW army. Especially nasty when combined with Lucrezzia Belladonna, who can make Golgfag simply incredible.

They are not cheap and might get blown away by missile fire. However, once you get them into close combat, things will turn. Perhaps not immediately, as undead are still a bit weak, but the special character makes all the difference. He regenerates the unit by hacking down enemies, thus eventually you will outnumber your opponent, causing him to autobreak if he ever loses a round of combat. I love this unit!

Awesome! A DOW/ROR user! Thanks Dansan!

With Ricco's group: What's your thoughts on Ricco vs. Pirazzo (unit wise)?

I don't know much about knights...sadly. I recognized they are better than boar boyz. Can you elaborate on how they compare to say... some Bret knights?

Agree with the Golgfag points.

And, yeah, the CC's boss (Richter) is a machine. If he was on par with the other RoR bosses (even with a points decrease), I don't think there'd be anything special about the unit. But the magic stuff in that unit is 'killa'.

:o That Rocks.....Just letting you Know Mr.G
took me 1/2 hour to read and 3 days to reply
but ...AWESOME :D
I use bunches of mercs made from converted NG's
Stll gotta do pikers......

good job compiling your thoughts

a couple of things to address

first... for the Voland knights, because they have barded horses this means they only move 7" and charge 14" ..... alot of OnG players tend to forget this as we never actually deal with barding

secondly, for the besiegers.... their save is 3+ ... not 1+ .... you are kinda of twisting the wording (mutilating actually) what it means... combined with hvy armour and the pavise, they get a 3+ save for close combat and shooting.... which is still very good (basically the pavise = enchanted shield).

Thx Demo... yeah, it does take a while to read.. :P

Kenshin, thx for the fyi on barded horses... had no clue.

On the AS of the besiegers: Where are you getting the HA+P=3+? The pavise rules state that you don't get the +1AS for HW+SHD. The omission of the comma in the equipment listing for the general troops is consistent with the writing format throughout all the entries - so that doesn't mean that the HA and Pavise are some sort of linked combination of gear.

I'm not aware of anything section in the BRB describing pavise use (if you can point me to it, I'd love to read it).

Atm, I think I'm correct (Pavise's 3+) + (HA's +2AS) = 1+ save.

The picture in the PDF even shows the Besiegers with the pavice and h.armor...

Very good writeup with this. I only wish I had some experiance with RoR, to be of some help in this discussion, but instead this topic will help me as time goes on. I will put this into a word doc for later use methinks.
Cheers.

I only have Ruglud's. I like to give them to my opponent to use against me sometimes, haha, extra Orc vibes to my shaman for mine AND Ruglud's even if against me :D

I can say that the two I want most are the Galloper Guns, as i will be facing Empire soon, and I want to give his troops a taste of it :P, and The Cursed Company, as they look so so cool, and i get to use unusual rules i cannot normally.

I was thinking about getting the Cursed Company, well becasuer the look awsome!!!!I absolutly love the models, especially Ritcher. But for 325pts or how ever much they cost I was thinking about just taking that 10 becasue every enemy that Ritcher kills he raises a Skeleton.

Well since you guys are into the Cursed Company, you will want to know this if you're in the U.S.

When you visit the only store (US) the complete unit price is incorrect ($123) DON"T buy it this way! Do your math and figure it out through the blister pack price... If I did my math right, you save $36!

I suggest not telling GW, given that pewter fig prices have increased due to tin prices, I wouldn't be surprised if GW increased the cost of the blisters instead of decreasing the cost of the unit-item.

Also, it isn't too much more to buy the bitz and get just the orcs... (that's totally up to you though). Just watch your price.

I'll find an "official wording" if i can about it :D prob in the form of a Q&A to the customer support.

I played DoW before playing OnG ...... so i've used must of the units... and I've taken them to GTs and RTTs.

Atm i'm just saying if people are reading your article here they might get the wrong impression about the unit... it's always better to take the "weaker" combo of the two unless you are 100% sure.

as for the basic unit structure. each additional besieger costs 12 pts... each additional basic crossbowmen costs 8 pts. sooooo if what you think is correct...... you are just paying 4 additional pts to go from no save to 1+ save :blink: .... common sense dictates that something here is wrong. No way would GW ever make a unit that is 1+ save on foot that costs......12pts... and it has range.

@Kenshin:

Where are you seeing this? It's not on the PDF. I'm seeing 12pts/ea regardless. (You might be thinking about Pirazzo's unit which is 9/10/ea for crossbow/pike.)

What's the cost for a regular, straight up crossbowman for the Empire? I'm guessing they're cheaper than the beseigers (for the initial 10) and less than 12 each, thereafter.

I'm not trying to be a "words-meiser" or anything here--or get you upset, but the PDF is pretty clear about what the Pavise does not count towards... With it being specific about what doesn't modify the AS, I'd assume they were aware of the fact that there is heavy armor on these guys and that they do modify AS. So I don't think I've "mutilated" the rules--as you put it. I'm reading exactly what they are telling me.

I can't argue that the +12/ea isn't cheap... that's why I'm saying they're good. If you compare them to Rugland's guys, there's a definite swap of abilities and traits. I don't think it's an enormous difference. I see the two as two different approaches to effective crossbow groups and, honestly, I see them almost on par with each other. (I own Ruglud's and I intend to convert B's Bs and use them both.)

Ruglud's equals high-T, possible CR-monster, with some AS. They have magic items, which increase CR (note what this item would cost) and a SB with a 3+ Ward (no secret, so not a big deal in telling).

B'S Besiegers equals average stats (basic BS and easier to wound) with great AS (which, if the opponent knows what to do, shouldn't be countered with S3 units). They have no magic items.

They're both made to take a charge, even from fast cav... something most archers/crossbowmen can't do. You can't, for example, run 5 wolfies into either unit and expect to get rid of them. You either need to take a reg down to meet them and beat them that way or use some heavier cav or warmachine options.

I think I'm reading it right... yes, it is a good deal.

I agree that 'weaker' is usually the route to go, however I've seen nothing to support I'm wrong, misreading the PDF, or that the rules are unclear. Therefore I'm 100% sure I'm right, so no 3+AS for me when I play them.

I understand about the regiments of renown, but what about normal dogs of war? I know there is a whole army of them, and they have cannons and knights and pikemen.. but can we bring in Dogs of War just like Regiments of Renown?

What I'm saying is, can we get cannons other than the galloping guns?

Gutsnakka great job,

the cursed company can be really good so I think they should get a higer score,
as said earlier Riecther will cleave trough the enemy and in the end outnumber. he is also very good in challenges, with WS, AC and ward. his sword is not some shoddy dwarf work either. I think ill get me one of these.

Does anyone(besides you arhuta) everyplayed with Cursed COmpany, If do some stories about em?

read my last sentence, I say I am gonna get one,

yeah, i think Richter is great, but I left the unit a little down on its rating b/c of its high cost (that's about 3 'ard grot regiments setup for CR combat). Also, once Richter is dead, they tend to fall apart.

Good fluff, good figs, great boss, good fun.

look at the other 6's -- they're among good company.

nono I'm not upset :D not at all. my statement for 8 pts was the generic crossbowmen you can take in the DoW army lists. And for the other guy that asked if we can take them instead of RoR...?.... yes you can, they just use up a rare slot each..so you can have regular cannons / hot pot catapults, duelists etc.

And for the AS thing. I guess its just the way we read them. You read them as the pavise itself gives a 3+ save and then you add the hvy armour to it. I read them as combined they give you a 3+ save..... I know when I've taken them to GTs and RTT the GW staff and other players there have always used them as 3+ .... but if your area uses them as 1+ then kudos to you ..... definately get a unit of them as they are extremely good then. My only comment from last post was that a generic crossbowmen from the DoW list is 8 pts and is naked. usually we pay 2 pts for hvy armour for other units with the ability.... which brings it to 10 pts. If your interpretation is correct, we can then pay another 2 pts to boost their save from 5+ to 1+ ... that is 4 lvls diff for 2 pts. .... and imo already means it's not possible. :) I just don't want you to think they are 1+ and use them in a tounry and suddenly they become 3+.... tactics you have come to enjoyed to use when they are 1+ won't work then and learning in a tourny might lead to disaster :D


good luck! :lol:

Righto, Kenshin. With either the 1+ or the 3+, I think they're still great (though I'd drop them 1 pt in the rating, if at 3+AS).

What you said makes sense (don't get me wrong), but I guess I'm reading the rules verbatum and just not seeing the 3+.

Either way... :)

I did some more lookin' around on the 1+/3+ issue. I grabbed a 2004 chronicle and had a look. In the newer Crhonicle it says that the pavise AND the HA give 3+ against shooting and 5+ in CC (meaning the pavise doesn't help in CC... hmmm... not sure how I feel about a big shield sticking out of the ground not helping in CC, but ... meh).

Point being Kenshin is correct.

On a happy note (for me): I bought 10 crossbows at Chicago last weekend and will be working on Da Buseejaz after I'm done moving and finding a new job. :D

Yeah. Their a rare choice, about 75 points (I think) but are of the smaller type. So, in my oppinon of a once-empire player, they're crap.

Great write-up, there's a lot of things worth considering in there.

Just want to point out that this is incorrect. The Warhammer rulebook refers specifically to weapons that fight in ranks, not spears(spears are just weapons that "fight in 2 ranks"). As Pikes are "fight in 4 ranks" they are subject to all the same rules as spears. in other words, you cant use pikes when you charge.

As to the Besiegers, it clearly states in the PDF under the Special rules for the Pavise, and i quote:

"A Pavise is a large shield which each Crossbowman can prop up in front of him. To represent this, Crossbowmen equiped with pavises have an armor save of 3+ from both close combat and missile attacks (note that this is NOT improved in close combat by the combination of hand weapon and shield)."

In other words, the armor save of a Besieger is always 3+, not 2+, not 1+, not 5+... 3+!! So listen to kenshin!

thanks enker.

I'll have to look up the pike thing... it's been a while since I wrote this now.

Well... this is a mute point now, since I found a place that specifically addresses this. yes, Kenshin was correct. The PDF quote is vague IMO... as it doesn't address the heavy armor (only HW and Shields). However, in the newest Chronicle it is reworded entirely different. The rewording also changes the armor saves from 3+ shooting or CC to 3+ shooting and 5+ CC. The PDF in this case would be out of date.

I'm still going to make the buggers though. I think the pavise is the coolest!

The "Fight in Ranks" Rule is on Page 89 of the Warhammer Rulebook, for all your looking-up needs :D

If you read through that bit, i'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion i did concerning the pikes. It would have been cool to charge with 4 ranks of pikes without penalty, but alas, thats not the case.... <_<

As to the Pavise, you'd be right, Chronicles supercedes the PDF.

In the warhammer annual 2004, some RoR are special choices. For instance, bearmen are special choices, as are Vespero's vendetta. This means that you can take more RoR units, without using up rare slots.

yep, I bought the 2004 chronicle yesterday and noticed some big changes... I'll be working on a rewrite later this week.

I think you missed something on p.89 regarding the "Fight in Ranks" rule. Look down a few paragraphs and you will read that when they charge, they fight with ONE LESS rank than they normally would. With spears, this would mean 1 rank fights on the charge, but with pikes, 3 ranks fight on the charge. That's still pretty good. Now if we could only give pikes to Big-uns!

I think GW did not intend the rules to be read that way, after all the rulebook was written with only spears in mind.... <_<

At least, i've never seen a group of high elf spearmen use 2 ranks on the turn they charged (they normally fight in 3 ranks after all...). and i think most people would agree it makes pikes way overpowered if they can still fight in 3 ranks when they charged. Look at it this way, pikes were intended to be a defensive formation, but if you can still have more attacks than frenzied savage orcs with extra hand weapon would have if you charged with pikes, the whole fighting defensively idea is pointless.

no, he's right, its just 1 less rank. HE spearscharge with 2 ranks, pikes charge with 3 and spears charge with only 1.

i know thats whats written, if you had read my post more closely you would have noticed that i said i've never seen high elves charge and use 2 ranks, not that they can't. And i also said GW probably screwed up with the wording. i said nothing about how the rules really are.

It is ONE LESS rank with multiple rank weapons, so you get three ranks on the charge with pikes and 2 with HE spears. If GW mean it differently, they'd put something in the errata.

Great job, the info has really helped.

i like the volands venators as my cavalry armies usually have them in them i also like riccos republican guard pikes reminds me of braveheart

No, I'm sure that you only get the first rank attacking. How could you charge properly while holding down a pike? You'll either un-balence or hit some one in front of you (I.e. a friendly model.).

Should this not be pinned or made into an article for the site or something? :D

Well, uhhh AI know everybody thinks this is the dumbest question ever but... I need to know. What does RoR stand for? :ph43r: