Maybe Scale Terrain shouldn't include Impassable terrain?
I agree with points increases though, 140 pts for Terror is too little.

Replace 'scale terrain' with the rules given for Spider Riders in the back of the current O&G book (reprinted though). Basically it means treat all non-'wet' terrain as open terrain, so that yes you can scale a sheer cliff, but you cant wander through lava. Thats not what it was for after all!

Also, maybe compare stats of the monster to those of the Sea-Elves big sea monster in SoC book, I dont know those stats so but Im sure someone would have the book (pester the Ard Boyz here).

Arfa da Grate

I just scrolled trough the list(version 5), and i have some things that i noticed:

1. Sinse the Goblin Merchant cannot fight, why has he the fighting capabilities of a kap`n/ad`mrul?

2. Should the fluff about the Trading Routes be added?

3. Some of the Magic Items dont have any fluff.


Chris

Are you and Krusty going to get onto that? :D

Sorry I ain't done much fluff for a while, but i've had the flu for the last week and I really havn't felt like it! :wacko:

Hopefully I'll be feeling more inspired by the weekend!

Cool. No worries - hope you feel better soon! :D

What about these?


Da Swashed Buckler

This was created on about the same time as the Sword o` Swashbucklin`, and therefore has am unecspected reaction when used together. The smith who crafted this, gambled it away in a drinking contest, and sinse that time the buckler have been handed around in varius contests and pit-fight gamblings. Still, sometimes it happens that the buckler are getting together with the sword, and when it happens the orc suddenly posses skill that he didnt know about(or any other for that sake), but still the orc(or goblin) booses about that it was he who did it.



Overloaded Pistol

This may not be called magical, but still the pistol have seen many battles(even more than the wielder). Still, many says that the gun may have much more gun-powder than a average gun, so many claims that it is possesed by Gork or Mork(especially when they tries to sell it).


Da Boomstick

Some orcs say that this were maked when the first pirate orcs settled in Hells Teef while other say that Morky Jonez created it. The truth are even more fantastic than the rumours, and how it came into orc possesion no-one knows. It was in ages passed created by the High Elfs and Dwarfs, before the War of the Beard or War of Vengeance when Dwarfs and Elfs were still friends and allies. It have the most potent runes and magics, making it a potent magic item. When the War between Elfs and Dwarfs started, it was lost on a unknown island with some very strange mountains...


Kap`n Flunk da Skwarky Squigott

I dont know what this is, so i cannot write about it jet.


Warding Skull

This skull were taken from the corpse of the "Guvna" who controlled the whole Hells Teef once. But that time is forgotten by most, except the oldest and "wisest" navvigaitas. The Navvigaita Slims&!% or "Da Smartesest Orc in Da Wurld" as he called himself, put a mighty spell on the skull, but something went horribly wrong(blowing of the orcs head), still some protective power have going into the skull.


Chris

Good stuff Chris.

"Kap'n Flunk da Skwarky Squigott" is a noisey Squig-Parrot. :D

Managed to play some battles with the list and here`s my comments on it:
- That by having a gunna boss I could use long gunz as special made a very big uproar on my opponents. Their suggestion was by having him you could get a free slotted long gun but they should still be rare.
- orc handgunners wheren`t that popular either, they should be limited to a max of 0-2 they thought.

Some other things I`ve been thinking about..
- handgun should only be available to gunna bosses, what normal Kap`n or Adm`rul with any respect for himself would use a ranged weapon like that?? (besides the gunna boss that is :lol: )
- the cannot be mounted rule should be in a "general orc pirates" part instead of being listed on every character.


talast,
Red

Right, so by including a gunner boss you can include 2for1 Long Gunz as a rare choise? Sounds better. I also like the 'andgunnaz 0-2 limmit, keeps us from being a complete shooty list.

As for the mounted, howabout a special rule like Choppa or whatever, listed at the bottom and described at the start.

Sea legz
The pirates of da green armada are long time sea farers and have grown accustomed to the rough and tumble of the open seas. However, as a good sturdy pair of legs is a must for all pirates they are rather dis-trustfull in relying on the legs of others to get them around. No Orc or Goblin Pirate hero may be given a mount to ride, ever, with the exception of a Wyvern where applicable. (legs dont matter so much when you're soaring through the air!).

Arfa da Grate

Yeah those suggestions for the gunna boss and handgunnas made sense to me, after all this is orcs and it`s in hth they excel.

Think that the sea legz rule would be more fitting for us in this list, btw great fluff there Arfa :D

Ok, Ive just been thinking and why doesnt the Snotling Pump Boat have the Aquatic(ish) rule rather than just Aquatic? It makes a lot more sense to me, and instead of taking D6 casualties the wagon just takes a single wound. It is made by snotlings after all!

Arfa da Grate

Goofycabal:

Btw, I agree with you Arfa - makes more sense in my book as well.

Da Black Spot, I think this needs revising. Howabout keep it the same as it is, but add 'the model under the influence of Da Black Spot will now hate every model in the Pirate Orc army until the character who placed Da Black Spot on him is dead.

What do you guys think? Keeps it slightly fairer, and stays within fluff boundaries.

Arfa da Grate

This would work well and it doesn`t make our opponents grumble over something that "cannot be stopped".

Ok, Ive taken it upon myself to make a couple of changes to the lists based on the recieved feedback:

-A roll of a 6 on the 'Absalootly 'Ammered chart now only gives +1S, the +1A bonus was removed. Points cost the same.

-Merchants & Merchant Lords have had their statline reduced by -1WS & -1Ld to represent their poorer combat skills and lack of bravery. Also, the 'not the bravest of sorts' rule has been reworded so that if the trader is on his own and is charged, he must automatically flee, rather than fleeing if on his own and challenged (which is normally illegal). Points cost now 70pts for Merchant and 95pts for Merchant Lord, before weapon upgrades.

-Gunna Bosses 'more gunz' rule is now 2for1 rare choice rather than special choice.

-Snotling Pump Boats now have aquatic(ish) special rule rather than aquatic. Same cost.

-Savage Orcs cannot use the Drunken Conditions rules. They are slaves after all, and in their fluff it says they are starved, so why give them precious supplies of grog? Also, the total number of Savage Orcs in the list may not be greater than the total number of Deck Handz/Boardin Boyz in the list. Not that handgunnaz are specificly left out of this, in the same way Arrer Boyz are left out of many similar rules such as Big'Unz in the O&G book. No points change.

-Kabin Grotz may no longer use the leadership of Orc units within 6", only Orc Heroes. It was just slightly unbalanced previously, but for +1pt (theoretically, they dont get free shields) it seems fine now.

- Da Black Spot, the model under the influence of Da Black Spot will now hate every model in the Pirate Orc army until the character who placed Da Black Spot on him is dead. Same cost.

- Treasure Trolls cost 60pts per model instead of 55pts.

- Handgunnaz limmited to 0-2

- Whalers' harpoon range reduced to 8", cannot skirmish (I thought we'd decided this already?). Cost left as is, these changes should prevent a cost increase as suggested.

-Handgun equipment option only available to Gunna Bosses, not Merchants, Brewa Bosses, Kap'ns or Adm'ruls.


Anyway, thats all for now, Im sure I'll find a couple more as the list progresses however. Any problems with any of those changes people?

Arfa da Grate

I think this balances the list more, it`s incredibly important to remove all those things that opponents guaranteed will grumble about.

We MUST remember that this is supposed to be a fun and characterfull list to play with. For us and for our opponents.

But there can`t be a lot of stuff left now that is unbalanced can it? We`ve been tinkering with details for over a month now so it should be pretty close by my judgement.

No we should be fine, but there will always be something we could have overlooked or havent changed since the latest feedback, and with me going through every rule and retyping/copying it out again some of these things become more apparent. We've basically got it all covered now though, the list looks pretty damn good to me anyway.

Arfa da Grate

I agree. Anyways this will be an e-book so when it`s been out for a period and player feedback comes it`ll be much easier to update it than with an ordinary army book.

so you guys know we can always do a future reviosion :P .

Ooh what a funny bunny eh? :lol: ;)
Well it`s nice to remind ourselves about that fact me-thinks since we gotta say "stop playtesting NOW" at some point ya know.

Mm, but its always nice to have one last look at the list as it goes into final print.

Speaking of which...

Reading through the fluff and rules for the Whalers, should they really have animosity? They dont seem to be the squabbling type to me, although they arent the bawling type such as Black Orcs, so no quell animosity, just no animosity themselves. To me the Whalers seem to keep to themselves, rather quiet and determined rather than rowdy or authorative. What do you guys think?

Arfa da Grate

What about just make them to could re-roll failed animosity checks but cannon re-roll a re-roll?

Chris

I think we should just get rid of it completely. They're just as determined and organised as Black Orcs, not to mention just as 'ard, they just dont have the menacing presense that the Blorcs do, and thus don't Quell it for others. Just like Hobgoblins dont have animosity, I dont think our whalers should either, and we can bump their points up to 13/14pts each. Does anyone else agree with me?

Arfa da Grate

Yes, i agree on that.

But perhaps also add another special rule to them, "Loners" that they may never be accompanied by characters and that they they will never panic if a nearby unit are fleeing, broken, destroyed, etc. For about 2-3 points?

Chris

Hmm, I still think they should panic from other fleeing orcs as they are still sensible, just not squabling, if you get what Im saying. As they are Orcs they'll still ignore Goblins and Snotlings panicing. As for the character rules, what if the background for your Kap'n was that he is a whaler? I know Id want to include him in the unit, but apart from that the whalers wouldnt really be a great unit to shove a character into anyway, they are small in numbers and expensive, and a group of Deck Handz with armour and shields would provide better cover. Id rather stick my heroes in a unit of Boardin Boyz, Deck Handz or Swashbukklas myself, with my Gunna Bosses in war-machine crews and swivel gunna squads.

Anyone else like to give their opinion, or is this just going to be me and Chris :lol:

edit- I just realised that we have very few units that can take a magical banner, in fact only the Swashbukklaz, Boardin Boyz & Savage Orc Bigunz can! Give the option to Whalers and Sea-Searpent riderz perhaps?

Arfa da Grate

It is something i have thought a little about and it is that Guilds actually may affect the board game in a way.

Something like this perhaps:

These upgrades are only available to Kaptains, Kommodores and Ad`mrul:

They may choose to be a member of the following Guilds

-0-1 Whaler Guild Member

+30

Have a `Arpoon, and may join Whaler Units. Are immune to Fear, Terror still counts as Terror.


-0-1 Gunna Guild Member

+20

Have a Handgun. Has any Handgunnaz unit within 6" may use this characters Leadership.

-0-1 MerGoblin Guild Member

Only available to goblins

+10

Have the Aquatic special rule(these are better than the regular ones).


-0-1 Swivvel Gunna Guild Member

May only be given to a Gunna-Boss(this are the only thing a Gunna-Boss may be part of a guild).

+20

Has a Swivvel Gun.


-0-1 Sea Serpent Guild Member

Goblin only.

+20

The goblin are mounted on a Sea Serpent. This is an exeption to the Sea Legz rule.

What do you think?

Chris

I seem to have forgotten to write about the Squgott. Well here it is:

Some claim that this old squigott is older than even Hells Teef itself. Whether this claim is true or not the squigott are atleast looking old enough to be it. He also seems to say "Shiver ma Timas. Shiver da Sails." Every time the wearer is in danger. And it also seems that the words have an effect, atleast the wearer know he is in danger.

Chris

Ok, it also seems a bit strange that they take on massive hulking beasts with a Leadership of 7. Up the leadership to 8, remove animosity and give them the option of a magic banner up to 50pts, and raise their points cost to 15pts each? Makes them seem very elite, which is what they should be.

-edit, hey, I like those guild rules too. Its going to be a b@stard slotting them in, but I like 'em, and I'll do it all the same! Add that there must be a unit of the specific type of guild included in the army in order to take that guild upgrade, and that only one guild upgrade is available per army.

Arfa da Grate

I dont think that they should be given a banner at all sinse they hunts beast in all manner of places were a banner would more or less just make the monster aware of them. But the rest of it i agrees with

Chris

EDIT: Thanks that you liked the Guild Rules to.

Ok then, we'll wait and see what the others think before making any changes, but I agree with you there.

On the topic of Guild members, I thought of some changes. Make it that only the Adm'rul or Kommodore may take an upgrade, and only one per army, chosen from the list bellow.

Whalers Guild (Orcs only): 30pts

Is equipped with a `Arpoon. Also gains immunity to fear, and treats Terror causing units as if they only caused Fear, just as if the model cause fear itself.

Gunnaz Guild: 15pts

Is equipped with a handgun. Also, all units of handgunnaz count towards the total number of deck handz when working out how many Boardin' Boyz you may include in the list.

Tamers Guild (Goblins only): 20pts

Is mounted on a Sea Serpent. This is an exeption to the Sea Legz rule.


The others, although nice, just didnt fit. I only think the general should be given the options of these, so I removed the Swivel Gunnaz one (besides which, the Gunna Boss would blow himself up, which isnt good), and what self-respecting Gobbo Adm'rul would shove a crude diving suit on when he can ride a mighty Sea-Serpent through the waves instead? Both are aquatic, so I figured the first was irrelavent.

Anyway, we'll wait to see what the others think, it might be something for an update instead of this issue, although it would be nice to include.

Yeah the three you selected seems to be the best, while the other where perhaps useless or bad.

Now only the other of the "editorial staff" needs to say what they meens, to see if they should be added or not.

Chris

Whoaa..happened a lot here in a few hours :D

Whalers no animosity - agree with Arfa
Magic banner whalers -yes
Magic banner SSR - no, Chris thinks the same as me here
Guild rules - the edited ones from Arfa I can agree with.

Well I wont include anything till Kurgan re-appears (I still dont think he knows he's a mod yet, he hasnt signed in sinse before we were promoted :lol:), but it should be ok. I was always a bit iffy about SSR getting the Magic Banner, because Boar Boyz did, but not Wolves, and we do need a couple more units. Still, Blorcs and Bigunz (i.e, savage bigunz, boardin boyz & whalers) should be enough, we only have a small selection of magic banners anyway.

Ooh, thats just given me another Q&A!

Arfa da Grate

Ww! You guys can talk! :lol: :rolleyes:

I agree with no banners on Whalers, and no animosity, and the guild rules are pretty cool as well, although for some nicely themed, themed armies! ^_^

I also agree with no magic banners of SSR.

Krusty

The whalers should not have banners at all in my oppinon.

To have a big banner with them when they sneeks up on monsters just dont sounds right to me.

Chris

I can see why whalers have no banner, but are there any other units out there that deny just one part of the command group? Maybe give them something that counts as a standard bearer?

Im not sure.

edit- maybe a ships warning bell?

Arfa da Grate

Yeah, that sounds more realistic.

Chris

Mabye one of them has the hide of a particulary nasty squiggly beast they killed draped across their back, where as the others simply have furs etc. This would make more sense than a ships bell IMO, as they wouldn't really be lugging a great big lump of metal around with them whilst hunting...

Krusty