my whole opinion on gays marrige is simple....just let them what the hell is the big deal, we've married a man to a horse and yes even a man to his house and dissmised it as just weird...but when you bring up gay people getting married people are like "Let's kill them" what the hell is up with that, just let it happen i highly doubt that if 2 gays marry that it will ruin your life

As long as it isn't' hurting anyone else (and it shouldn't be). The problem is with the catholic church and as a catholic I find such a stance on the subject embarassing and shameful.


Besides, homosexuality is supposedly genetic (bi-sexuality on the other hand, is a product of angtsy teens :P) and if God made people to be gay, then he'd love them as an artist loves all of his work.

Almost everyone who I talk to has the opinion that they should be alloud to do what they want. I believe most politicians see it this way too, buy are afraid. Lets look at this. Even though most states still won't allow gay marrage, are people going to get angry and protest? No, becuase it has always been that way. But if they would change the law and allow gays to marry, THEN people would become angry and protest because something has changed. It is a terrible thing to say by law two people can't marry, but we are so used to it it is safe for politicians to have it continue. Sad but true.

actually, i must say that it's all of the psuedo-KKK senators... I mean we just KNOW they are there!

I think that to actually make a constatutional amendment to prohibit the marriage of gays is oppresion of a certian kind of people, be they sinful or not that is not the decision of the GOVERNMENT. What about all this blather about separation of church and state? Isn't this crossing that line? To say you can't do something because of who you are is OPPRESSION, the very thing America is supposed to stand against! But of course if you said that to President Bush he would stare at you blankly, as he does not understand that big word.

If this country even attempts to put something so unconstitutional in it's constitution, then I'm moving to Antartica to start my own country and you are all invited to come with me. This is the kind of thing that should be left as a STATE decision, so that people who feel oppressed can move to another state. This is why we have states.

On a side note, I believe gayness is sinful, but I would never belittle or hurt anyone if they had a different opinion than me. I have a few friends who are gay and they are very wonderful people. We all have flaws, and to single a particular group of people out because they share the same quality that is commonly disliked is more wrong than any wrong the people being picked on are accused of.

well keep in mind diane that the U.S is really just a big freakin hypocrosy and we think we're the police of the world

Eh...you COULD always do something about it, like run for president :P

bah I don't wanna run for president...goverment doesn't reall interest me that much, and I don't wanna write a veto, besides like I said before..the president has nompower mwaaaa ha ha ha......I'm like that guy on the street corner...and besides...would your really want me as a president

No, so I guess it's Canada for the likes of you and me in that case.

I personally have nothing against Gays/Lesbians, but I do know that was not how we were created to be, at least not for the purposes of bearing children. Whether God looks at them as sinners, I know not. I think Gay marriage should be allowed, because Diane brought up a good point: Seperation of Church and State. According to that, not allowing them to marry is unConstitutional. People don't have to marry in a church either so that eliminates that argument. Let them marry, it's a union that brings people together and creates happiness. What right have we to keep them from marrying?

and think about it....what are gays....population control(thanks bry for this saying) and good friends...

there is nothing wrong with gay people wanting to get married. it shows that they love eachother enough to spend the rest of their lives with eachother. i doint see why everyone has this big idea that its wrong for two people of the same sex to get married. i mean, are they not human, if you prick them, do they not bleed like everyone else

The problem with this is that these are all the opinions of youths who were born in an age when homosexuality is much more accepted then it was fifty years ago. All the peoplle in control of the governemnt right now are older men who grew up in a society that detested and tortured gay people, once our generation takes control of the government this is going to be a very different country. A lot of things are going to change once the age of acceptance reaches national control because then Gays will be allowed to marry, much less racism is going to take place on the national scale. What you have to realize is that we've been raised to accept gay culture because it's everywhere now, in the age most politicians were raised in homosexuality was a taboo subject, it was hidden away and despised. Gay people were scared even more then they are now to come out back then because they had no support, this is a very different culture and once people our age take control of the national governemtn, gay marriages will be much more widely accepted.

Although I expressed my opinions above I feel I must add this argument.

Marriage is defined as the union between a man and a woman. To waive this definition aside and allow gay marriages also opens the door to polygamy and people wedding animals. That obviously desecrates the sanctity of marriage which already has been trampled upon by recent events *Cough BRITNEY SPEARS cough* Nowadays a lot of insurance policies and such don't require a bond of marriage, they have changed their policies to include life partners.

Just an argument to consider.

Yes, I have heard that one before, and though I totally disagree with polygamy and the other one (you know, one woman having many husbands) and of course animal marriage, I can think of no political aruguments agasint these things....(I can think of plenty of moral and religious arguments, but that rarely gets one anywhere)

here's some political arguements against it.

Multiple marriages complicate the tax system since spouses file jointly.
Animal marriages make it so that less children are born, and we need thsoe children to fill our jobs and perpetuate this countrys economy


How are those? :P

personally I would like a minotaur to be an accountant

When you say marriage it depends what you mean. I'm for gays getting married as long as there married by like a judge or something. However I can see people being against them getting married in a church. The whole gay thing does kind of go against God's plan for a family.

I have several things to say before I forget all I wanted to aim for.

First off our country IS hypocritical. There is no argument there. I also would like to state that our justice system has too many loop holes to count and that it seems all the judges up near the top are currupted...but let's keep this one thing in mind......our country is doing damned well compared too alot of the others out there. And I try my best not to bad talk it too much because everytime I read a paper about a girl who get's her genitalia scraped off when she reached 13 just because she's now officially a "woman" I get sick. I'm proud to be in America where I am alloud to make a choice about pracically anything in my life as oppose to those poor girls who are forced to marry at ages 13 12 11 and even ten to men who are fourty, fifty years old. Then are expected to be a "good wife" which means let him "Take" you whenever he wants even though you dispise him. I am aware that there are many MANY things wrong with our country, but I'm still VERY proud to be an American, and I love our country despite it's shittyness, because our shittyness looks like the light of heaven to most other people int he world.

Sorry about that I know it ahd nothing to do with this topic, but I felt like it had to be said. Now, onward to the real topic here.
I agree that our generation accepts gays much more openly then the generations before us, but I must disagree with you Sean. Gay marrages may still not be legalized when our generation hits the stands, and I'll tell you why I think this.
I had a dream not so long ago, that I was trapped on an island. The adults on this island were all conformed, OBSESSED with going to church, even though their church was currupted, and did not promote good living. The children of this island were untouched by their parents ideals. They ran around outside and had fun like anyother kid. But I knew....absolutly knew, that even though these kids disagreed with their parents now...they would become them later on.
Funny to be dreaming about confomity, but I swear it I did. I belive that even when our generation grows older...we will mimic our parents footsteps, because it's all we know how to do, it's all we've ever seen or learned.
I will argue however that we DO ahve our own minds, and I do belive that wth each generation it gets better and better, but I don't belive WE will be the ones to break the cycle. I think it'll be our children, or our grandchildren who finally make the break though.

Now onto my opinion. I agree with practically everyone else here on this thread. If gays want to marry, fine. Let them. Does it ruin your life? Does it change our economy? Hell...it sounds to me as if it may RAIS our economy. Think about it. Spending thousands of dollars on more marriages? Talk about consumerism. Weddings are a big one for our economy, better then buying cars, because it involves so many people. So what's the problem again? Seperation of church and state seems to come up alot. This deserves a new paragraph.

Seperation of church and state was soley created in our consititution so that the Pope could not take over the power in our country. It was made so that there was no way ONE MAN could have power over everyone like a king. Seperation of Church and state was NEVER meant to be nit picked to the degree of "oh...we shouldn't ahve the word "GOD" in the pledge of alliegence....is might offend people." Let me say that this is total crap. The word "GOD" is in the physical constitution several times. It wasn't meant to offend anyone, and honestly I think we shoudl all just get a thiker skin if all of us want to live together peacfully. Seperation of Church and state, if interpreted correctly was never meant to determine "words" in a constitution, religious "Symbols" in towns, OR Gay Marrages. Seperation of Church and state has been tortured and twisted and shat upon to the point where it no longer even remotly represents what it was once meant for. And it is another thing about this country that I am ashamed of (Keep in mind I'm still a proud American.) But the people have destroyed that section of the constitution.

*Huff* I think I've said my bit. I do agree with gay marrages, but as Jessica pointed out there should be a line drawn just after that so people can't marry animals or non-living objects or have several wives ect. And seperation of church ans state means shit now since the public has destroyed it's meaning. It's been reduced to a term that people shout when they're upset and have no leginiment argument for what they're saying.

Ok...NOW I'm done. LOL. Hope I contributed.

stares with wide eyes in awe....raises finger and takes deep breath to speak, thinks about it then puts hand down and stay silent and begins to clap

As a non denominational Christian (I think only the bible is god's word) who does believe that the bible is not just something my parents used to keep me in line, I cannot say I advocate gay marriage. I cannot advocate sin. According to what I the bible says I believe it is sin. Romans says it plainly. That does not mean I cannot have friends that are sinners, we all are. God says love the sinner not the sin. I have nothing against two people wanting to spend the rest of their lives together. I do have a problem when those people want to be married in the church.. I cannot force people not to sin. I can't force people to think the way i think. Nobody can or should. I have yet to read a passage in the bible that says convert people by force or threaten to kill them. That is taking away their god given right to chose. I will not do that (when it dose not hurt others) I can exspress my feelings in a polite non violent way.. like in this forum.

Separation of church and state is a good thing but.. The law states that you can't force people to participate or not participate in religious ceremonies as traditions. So why do people get angry when a group of students and teachers get to gather of their own free will to pray? Is the school making them pray? if so then yes it should be stopped but if not it is their right. To me my faith is morals that is what my faith gives me..

well the gpoverment got rid of school prayers ause it made other kids feel bad, like when my dad was in school during hanicka (I can't spell it) only the jewish kids would get off from school and other kids would be able to single them out and that's the same reason why they got rid of prayers pretty much...cause with all the autheists and other kids different ways of prayer non of the kids would be left out and be singled out.......*sigh* another part of life

Personally, I think marriage is stupid. You dont NEED to get married to live like you would be. Though yes, I think they should allow same-sex marriages. But I dont feel that marriage is holy anymore and I dont feel that anything in the bible should be considered when it comes to goverment. As far as I'm concerned people should do what makes them happy that doesnt hurt others. If shooting people makes you happy, that's wrong, you should be locked away for 200+ years. If being romantically involved with someone of the same sex makes you happy, I dont see how that could possibly hurt anyone else. Whatever turns you on as Mr. Kramer would say. Just live and let live.


Well that's my two cents,

well if everybody did what they wanted everybody would be dead by now, but yeah I have to agree marriges just aren't as holy anymore I mean look at the weddings in vegas those speed weddings....I mean people used to get married in the church with gos divinity and such now it's just they want to be together...humans are weird, religion is dying which is unfortunate for some people cause though I am atheist I won't try to interfere with anybodys religion as longas as they don't interfere with everybodys lives on a daily basis, but without religion I say the world would have fallen apart a while ago because people used it as guidelines and for something to believe in so they can keep things in perspective and live happy lives, but now-a days some people use religion for financial gain or as means to justify terrible acts (suicide bombers)....like those people that claim they have the power of god and when they touch you they heal you...so many people died from that becasue they would throw their medications away thinking god will come and help them and they end up dying and those religios scandel people get rich off of it "helping others". It saddens me

Heather, I must say that your last post is exactly, word for word, what I believe, and it's what I've been trying to say for years about this subject. Can I have your permission to copy it? This is not sarcasm I am being serious and the next time someone asks me about this it would be great if I had what you said to refer to.

Aarkan and Joe-
Marriage is just as holy as it ever was. Just because people do not take it seriously anymore does not remove the power of marriage. I believe marriage is forever. I do not believe in divorce, I think that is a big part of the falling of our society. And I despise people who turn marriage, which is very sacred and holy, into a "joke" like Brittany Spears did. She has given me one more reason to hate her.

PS- Joe can you please change your sig, I really don't like it and I'm tired of scrolling my screen up to not look at it.

God never promised anyone a rose garden..

So it's okay to prevent people from doing what they believe in (when it won't physically hurt anyone) just because it offends others? I think society is too caught up in trying not to offend people. You can't make a system where someone won't be offended somehow. Taking away someone's rights won't change that. That's the kind an of argument people would use to stop gay marriage. It offends some people so let's make sure that it's stopped. Suddenly prayer is offensive? Let shelter our children from any idea we don't want put in their heads. We don't want them thinking something might be right that we don't agree with.
I do agree that marriage means nothing anymore. Sex certainly has no meaning in this world, why do you need marriage? What so you can put on a ring and buy a house? people in relationships do that without marriage. Half of them end in divorce anyway. If anything marriage seems to be the kiss of death for a relationship. Love should be forever.. It just a sad fact that it is not.

-edit you have my permission to use what ever you want from my posts i do not mind.

I'm with Laiden and Heather on this one. Being a Roman Catholic who does attend church every sunday, I agree. I don't feel the holyness has gone out of marriage. Just people fail to keep it within. I don't believe in divorce, unless its for a justified reason. Such as abuse or cheating by a partner or something of similar nature.

Edit: I also agree sex has lost its meaning. Sex was something designed by God to be used in the bonds of marriage. If everyone did this there would be a lot less STD's and teen parents and everything else that is just a perversion of God's plan.

the only thing that really angers me in religion is how absent minded people can be, there are religions that don't agree with eachother and they can still ive side by side, but then you have those other religious people that think their religion is completly supirior in everyway and won't even listen to anything else, example in ireland, the middle east the crusads....what this world needs is more tolerence for one another and being able to see the other side of people argument playing devils advocate so to speak...for me I believe in reincarnation but not on a spiritual sense....cause einstein himself said matter and energy can not be created or destroyed but take a different form.....so there's reincarnation for you, not that that is 100% right, heck for all I know it's completly wrong, hey maybe the cristians are right maybe the hundu's who knows, this is why I became athieist I was just to confused on whats right and some peoples ignorence....and I also want to be exposed to other ideas they may seem more appealing than my cuurent belifs. That's why I try to avoid things on a religios scale cause even some people don't even know what their talking about when they speak of their religion like some chirstinas believe jesus was christian, he wasn't he was a jewish carpenter and some people believe he said that he was the son of god.....not once did jesus ever say he was the son of god.....but also just as a side note...jesus himself said "If you pray out loud you are a hypocrite"

-feel free to comment

Sodomy is a sin, baby!

Right you are Joe, there is a passage in the bible procliaming "Do not be a hypocrite, like the man that prays on the street, for God will always hear your prayers."

But, I don't get it, you denounce the possibility of a God existing because of religion fanatics? I don't see religion as a barrier at all but rather it is something that is used to give people strength, be it one god or many, one life or many. Those that fight over it ALWAYS have other motives, the Crusades, Pope Urban II wanted to take the holy land back so Europe can begin dominating land trade again, Al-Quida? They want more land.

Um....anyone that says that Jesus was a Christian should be slapped upside the head, his diciples were, however.

As much as they protest it the fact that gay people can't marry is a blessing to them in disguise. Divorce rates are astronomical, and out of those who don't divorce many are unhappy. Marrige is something that is sweet and beautiful and happy at the time, but is most often later regretted. Gay people are spared this by not being alloud to marry.

And not to get off subject, but how is sex outside of marrige perversion of God's plan? In the times of Jesus and before people were married much sooner, around thirteen or fourteen. Now being married before 18 is rare and often impossible. You can still have two people who have the same love for eachother and the same horomones, but it is not socially alloud for them to marry. How is it perversion of God's plan if they have sex?

well I denounce the possibility of the god that we all know of, the one that sits in heaven and makes every single one of us and at the end of your life it's either heaven hell or pergitory...I find something just a little hard to believe....like how some one can do a bunch of bad things in there life all of the sudden they feel sorry for it and everythings wiped clean, and if he made every singleone of us wouldn't it be his (if it's a he) fault if there's chaos in the world, but mostly I don't believe in a god becasue of science, cause look at history and how many times religion has been prooven wrong in the past and how people KILL in the name of god and how they prey for god to kill there enemies, that's why I don't believe in a god, cause if there was one the earthj would have been gone a long time ago, I highly doubt that a god would watch one of his creations go around and kill all the other things that he created....and what about the outer planets and such, if god made the planets that we know...what about the others, they aren't mantioned anywhere in the bible or anywhere else that is why. sorry if I sound harsh but that's my belif, I won't completly deny that there might be a god, just not the one that everyone knows. hey look at the past, the romans thought there were hundreds, now we chuckle a bit, they only did it becasue they couldn't explain anything, hey maybe we're the same, maybe people thousands of years i the future will look back on us and laugh at us

-edit just be thankful I'm not one of those people that becomes atheist becasue they don't wanna go to church or are one of those people that tries to stop religion in every way possible

"no one comes to the father but through me. If you really knew me you would know my father as well." Jesus did claim to be the son of god. It's in the bible. Many many times. I have midterm studying to do or I would post more examples. He was born a Jew, and came to the earth for the Jews god's chosen people. Jew first the gentiles second. God gave us free will. That does not mean he likes what people choses to do with it. No matter how much our actions hurt god he allows it. If he did not want us to have a choice he would never have given Adam the abillity to eat the fruit.
Science cannot explain everything. If you take the big bang theory to be true, what made the matter and gasses before the bang? If all cells come from preexisting cells what made the first cells. I do not believe that science can or will answer every thing.
God gave us the gift of sex. Okay now this is all is what I believe and the next part of what I write is not for the immature.
Sex is the gift of God to a man and a women who are married. It is when the souls and bodies of two people are joined. It is an experience that is not to be shared lightly. It's not just about "hormones". That's what animals are. Humans are much more complex. From this gift come life its self. "protection" messures make it so people forget that fact.. Forget that it is supossed to be about two souls becoming one, and creating a new soul. (not against them just how they affect people) From what I have heard sex is one of the best experience a human can have. I don't want the man I eventually find to be my soul mate and husband to have shared his soul with someone else. I don't want the physical expression of our love to be tainted by the memories of someone else. I don't want the possibly that he has someone else in his mind when he is with me in such a very close and personal way. You can't just forget a sexual exsperience. It will always be there. God gave us such a wonderful gift to give to the one we will share our lives with. I want my gift to give and receive to have always and truly be meant for me, and me alone.
Currently marriage is just an after thought. That's not how it used to be. Marriage used to come after you had truly understood why your mate would always be your life partner. That reason was not confused with a attraction that was merely physical. Lust is not love. It will never be. Lust is what marriages today are built on. That's why they fail.

Ok, I have a few more things now lol.

I belive it was already said in the beginings of this thread, but I'd like to say it again anyhow. I agree with whoever said it: Men and woman were made to fit together like puzzle pieces. We were made for eachother. In every aspect that I can think of. Ever since I've started dating Gavin it's become even more clear to me that men were meant to be with woman and woman were meant to be with men. It just doesn't fit the other way around. Men do not fit with men and woman do not fit with woman. I do not disagree with gays or lesbians falling in love. I know...I will admit now, first hand....that it is very EASY to fell in love with someone of the same sex. But I also belive that to become lesbian or gay is a consious choice that a person makes. I belive this because scientists to this day have not been able to find a gene or hormone or chromosone that causes one to be gay. I think that if a persone belives he or she is attracted to the opposite sex, then they BECOME that way because mind over matter is no joke. I also have friends here at college who are gay. And they're great wonderful people. But I belive that it was their own conscious choice to be that way, because in the end men and woman were simply made to fit one another in everyway possible. Not only physically, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

I've also been reading Joe's posts very carefully about religion. I must say right now Joe, that I agree with practically everything that you've said. I've always had a problem with religion. I think it's a wonderful idea that simply doesn't work. Like communism. Looks great on paper, but it just doesn't work in real life. The reason that it doesn't work is because we're human, and humans created religion. I am not an athiest however. I belive that there is some larger force out there. I don't belive in teh God everyone depicts as Joe said. I find some of the religious things hard to belive as well. I know there's soemthing out there, but I don't agree with the image people have painted of God at all. I belive in a God that is loving and kind and won't send people to Hell because they weren't baptized! I don't belive in a God that says it's a sin to lust or a sin to not go to church every sunday.

These are obviously things made up by humans. God doesn't care if you go to church every sunday. He doesn't need us to worship him. In my opinion being a good Christian means being the best person you can be. It means doing good tword others, and being kind and understanding. It's going out in the world everyday, lifting up your head and saying "Hey, how many people can I make smile today?" Or "Hey, I'm gunna help whenever I'm needed to help someone." It's giving up your seat for the kid with crutches on the bus, it's giving your icecream cone to the kid who just dropped his by mistake. It's moving a branch out from the middle of the sidewalk, so the next passerbye doesn't trip after you just did.

It's not about going to church or praying three seconds a day or knowing the bible back to cover. And this goes for EVERY religion, not just christianity. It's not about doing all the things a book written by humans says you should do in order to got o heaven, it's about being the best person you can be. And this is why I have such a huge problem with religion, because I used to go to church everyday and see people being what they say is a "Good christian" when I knew that that same person praying on their knees in front of me went home at night and beat their children. It bothered me to be part of a group of people who said and did the same things during a segregated part of time on a certain day of the week. It bothered me to see everyone's happy smiling false faces, then go out into the parking lot to see everyone cutting eachother off to get to the exit the fastest. Religion to me is fake. It's a false pretty china doll face placed ontop of a bunch of worms. It's something society created in order to mask it's uglyness.

If people we're truely religious....they would not do the things I've witnessed in the short time span of my 19 years of life. I belive that religeon should equal personal worth. What have you done during the week? How many people did you compliment? How many did you put down? How many people have you helped, protected, encouraged? Or did you hurt them? Hit them, make then cry? Religeon is about every second of your life. Every breath you take!!! It's not about what you do on sunday.....and it seems to me....that everyone has forgotten that. And it makes me very upset, and very sad. Especially when I explain this to someone...and they still try to pressure me into going to church. Telling me I'm a sinner, that I'll go to Hell. Gee, well according to my belife, that person just made me feel bad...and well, screwed over REAL religion.

Whos to say what's wrong and right? Who says which religion is the REAL religion? You do. It's all personal. Right and wrong, black and white. No one can draw the line because it's different for everyone. What's wrong in beliveing in reincarnation....AND heaven? What's wrong with beliving in ghosts, and the after life? Nothing. Belive in whatever you want. But for the love of human kind try your best to be what you preach every second of your life. Cuz if you're not, then that's the cause of half our problems in the first place.

That's what I was talking about, I'm not going to assume right off that bat well where did everything come from in the very begging...well it must of have been a god. Humans havn't been around a long time and you just asked the greatest mystery in all of science...how did life start. Supposedly when the meteor hit earth (now this is a theory but evidence has been shown) it carried the very first aminio acids that could support life. If you can solve this question "How did the very first cell get here" then you will have your name immortilized forever and ever. If you can take things with no life and miz them to make life congradulations your a freakin genious.

It's all human psycology to me, we all want to explain everything (just like we want to name everything) so aren't really sure what to think before anything started. Perhaps (now it's only a theory I made up) the tale of god was just a story to begin with because it seemed logical at the time (and this was a long long time ago).
and if god made us in his own image, would he be more caveman like or todays humans because we evolved over time so what does he look like, and does that mean god robs and kills (well he did cause that huge flood...poor noah)

And (not that this happen to the christians) some religions across the world (the ones no one really knows about) had rituals and practices with plants that would cause halucinations. now think this isw a time before anybody really knew anything so some people might have been on drugs.

And here's another possibility...perhaps god was made as a means to get things done. Like a ruler would tell his people that if they build a city then god would allow them into heaven where there was bliss and no saddness, and of coarse them being slaves would always follow there leader and think that the leader is the most knowledgebale man because they were lowly slaves in the class system so the upper calss had to know everything.

Maybe it was a tool designed by the rich to get money, cause thousands of years ago you would have to pay your way into heaven. Maybe it was a way to get people to wage war with another country "if you fight for your land then the ultimate god will grant you eternal pleasure" a ruler would say and the people would believe and follow, there's even evidence of this in world war 2...the french had something called "Eelan" which is the belif in the spirit of the french, and people actually put aside the word of god thinking that there was a great spirit ment only for the french and people would fight for it.

and choice of free will...what if a child that lived in a normal house and grew up a happy life...now take that child and put them in this senario instead when was born he/she was constently abused and tortured grows up and becomes a murderer...would it really be there fault that they became a murderer, because they grew up in a terrible life style, what would happen then

besides the idea that you live only once seems kind of extreame for anything..."okay you live for 50 years and of those fifty years your were sinning for 34...have a good time in hell" just the fact forever heaven or eternal hell for such a small amount of time seems a little weird...and what about people that were forced to sin and kill against there will without them being able to confess and then just dying, and they feel really sorry, so they go to hell?

what if an infant dies right after birth, is it pergitory......and keep in mind ours isn't the only universe out there if you where to take all the universe that we have seen and shrink it down to the size of earth, our universe would be the size of a proton, that's how small we are...that's why if you say there are no aliens, that is saying that you have seen the entire universe, and alines can be anything from bactieria to the ones that take over earths and vulcans and the big headed ones we're familiar with...(whew this is a big debate, but I'm rather enjoying this cause now I can hear what other people have to say and hey who knows maybe they'll change the way I think or vise versa)...natalie kick ass opinion

I can respect peoples opinions about there not being a God. But somehow some way we were created. Maybe it didnt happen in the blink of a second in the garden of eden. However, Humans are children of the galaxy. We've only been around for a couple million years. We have a long way to go.

As far as God exisiting. I believe he does. I'm on the same side with Heather. I believe in sex being the one thing you share with ONE person. Everytime you do it with someone else you loose more and more of that connection.

Marriage is still as Holy as ever. Its the people that make it non holy.

Well, no one truly knows what the "seven days" were. They could've been a moment or millenia.

well yes I too agree with heather on the topic of sex but jeff we have only been around earth for a thousand years not a million and the humans we are now didn't come around until like 20,00 years ago, sorry to put you down like that jeff, but yes there is free will and all, but what about the goverment, they can decide everything for us and all these nuclear bombs you would think a god or gods would step in and do something like some how broad cast a message that no one would be able to deny, perhaps he has and other humans want to keep it to them selves...everything thing is so confusing.....but this is another part of life we have to deal with, it's even a littel fun not knowing, cause think about it, what would life be like with everyone knowing, it wouldn't be the same, like lets say reincarnation was true, then everybody would go around killing everyone and everything saying "wee I'm gunna become a rabbit now" now lets say there was an almighty god that casts sinners and such to hell then we would all try and be good children and confession booths will be packed and there wouldn't be anymore comedy shows or fun for fear that it might be a sin or because it is a sin, perhaps there's nirvana which can only be obtained through constent meditation, life would be boring if that were the case. So I don't know about you guys but I'm happy without knowing, it keeps you guessing and leaves things up to the imagination, like to the hindues it was the greatest thing to be reincarnated as a cow, seems odd to us but when other religions look at ours they think we're crazy....I won't deny that there is a higher power but I'm not about ready to accept it either I wanna live life the way I want to, if I truly am a bad person maybe I'll get another chance and why would a god make something to see if it's good or bad in life seems weird perhaps we just live life because we have to...here I'll start another topic on it...and god that sends people to hell because they don't worship doesn't seem lijke a good god to me just a selfish god that wants power

Ah, the homo-erectus, while I believe evolution to be a valid thing, I still have a hard time linking the erectus with the sapian, where is the missing link? no evidence of it at all.

God also gave us "free will" to shape what we do with our lives, after the first flood he promised to Noah that he would not destroy the world again, causing a rebuttal in intervention with humanity.

That's only speculation, like religion. It's fine to "not accept a god" but you're fighitng speculation with speculation, so it really doesn't prove jack to those that do believe in a god.

And your point is?

You STILL have to pay your way into heaven, pal :P
Of course it was a way to wage war, some people used religion for their own justifications and petty means and that is not what it was created for, the Old and New testaments were not written then followed by a period of warfare and profit.

That has nothing to do with free will. And the only person who is ever at fault for murder is the murderer. What would happen then? A multitude of things, that kind of outcome is far from the only thing that could happen. I'm sure many successful people were abused when young.

We are not judged by sins alone according to the bible, the book of Matthew greatly discusses our human interaction and love toward one another and how greatly that outweighs sin. Without being able to confess? God is with you at all times, not only when a preist is around.

The possibility of a universe is only speculation and not proven fact, like the religion you are combating. To say that there is no god is to say that you have discovered all the possibilties and answers that this universe has to offer.

Leave the country.

The Bible is anything BUT an answer to everything in the world, that is where your logic fails you. God that only wants worship? It is stated in the book of Matthew that all God wants is the simple belief of him from his people.

Sure, it's only our speculations that set us all apart, after all, we are all human and we do not know anything at all. Of course you can not believe in a god and that is just fine, but you are fighting our speculations of why a god exists with speculations of why one doesn't. I fail to see what you are trying to prove to us.

I suggest you read the book of Matthew and the book of Revealations. Revealations basically tells us that Christianity as an instituion will fall and a lot of other interesting stuff (but it is by far the scariest of the books in the new testament).

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Marraiges for some, miniature american flags for others.

Joe don't worry about putting me down. I dont take offense to stuff like this. Everyone does have free will. I'm sure you have your reasons for believing there is no God. I on the other hand have my reasons for thinking that. And at least you agree about the sex thing. At the very least people should value such things more. Marriage is tied in with that. Its still a thing that shouldnt be considered lightly. When you say I do, you should mean it.