This was the best episode yet. (I've only seen five though...) Anyway, I missed the snarks. It wasn't as full as it usually is. It gave us a really deep look at House though. He was far more serious than I think he has ever been.

I am not a House/Wilson shipper. I don't swing that way. But I love their friendship. I didn't cry when Wilson was asked to leave because I knew he'd be fine. (*cough*mostly cause I read the spoilers and knew Vogler was gone*)
I did start to cry when the pregnant lady died. House was sooo great. The way he handled the husband, grabbing him. *squee* Beautiful eyes..

I also have this fictional thing in my head where there is this other character who would have fit beautifully into the mix. It is like a fanfic, but I don't have time to write it down. She is the replacement of Cuddy and she has a long past with House. If anyone wishes to know more, let me know...

Anyway, one thing I did not like, but it is the script writers fault:
When the husband was kissing his wife goodbye, and Foreman came in the room and said, "Your son is doing good." Excuse me, but what educated doctor makes such an elementary grammatical mistake? I couldn't say good if I tried. It ALWAYS comes out well in that connotation. It just...bugs me...

*cough* But yeah, awesome episode. I really enjoyed it. I am so glad Satan...I mean Vogler is gone! What a pissant. And you know what, Cuddy was a hell of a lot softer on him than I would have been. I was giving him my monologue during the commercial break...most of it couldn't have been aired on TV though...
And I am not a Cuddy/House shipper either, but she is starting to win me over. GO CUDDY!

I think it was a great test for everyone. It'll be interesting to see how the relational dynamcs change or don't change after this.

I like the idea that House knew all along what Vogler was about and that he was just kind of pointing the others to the same conclusion. But he really didn't come across that way in this episode. I don't know whether it's because he wasn't expection some of the results he got or whether it just wasn't the case.

I find it interesting too that after Wilson left he was pretty much resigned to leaving as well. Was it because he felt there was no one left on the board with the balls to stand up to Vogler (or who liked him enough to risk clashing with Vogler) or because Wilson was gone and he just didn't feel it was worth fighting for if Wilson (and maybe Cameron too) wasn't going to be there.

I mean think about it. Every day you come into face Chase the traitor, Foreman the attitude man, Cuddy riding his butt and siding with Vogler and Vogler! Shit I'd leave too.

:D :lol: B)

Ding, dong, the evil son of a b**ch is gone!

Well, it's good to see Cuddy finally doing the right thing. Sure the hospital just lost big money, but it was a Faustian deal, so come on!

The drinking party at the end was-- by far-- my totally favorite part. I think Cuddy's drinking an entire glass was hilarious.


So.....

Who thinks Cameron will be traipsing back soon?

Not my favorite episode -- too much hospital politics. But if that's what it takes to get rid of Vogler, I'll deal. Sooo glad he's gone!

I loved House's dream. The cut to House telling Vogler that he had cancer was striking -- I thought it was real, and liked the direct but decent way that House delivered the news. Then they drifted amusingly out of character. Jumbo size coffin -- hee! (OK, that last part wasn't out of character :-)

I liked how House "defended" the raw-foods-vegan couple -- something like, "They're idiots, not child abusers." And it made me happy that their baby's problem turned out to be not their fault.

The Foreman vs. Chase sniping was pretty funny, too!

It took nearly a season, but we now know...Wilson does have an office of his own. But I have to admit, compared to House and Cuddy's offices, Wilson's is no where near as nice or as big. Does he get office envy? No wonder he hangs out in House's office so much (besides the company, of course)! ;) :D

The interesting thing about the dream is that House is there walking without a limp or a cane, so House still mentally has not resigned himself to the fact that he's a cripple. I mean, that's well and good and valiant, but it's also amazingly tragic.

I thought that this was really one of the better episodes, partially due to the writing. It was so much tighter than the previous ones (and with David Shore co-writing it, there was a good reason for that). I loved, loved, loved the scene with House and Wilson (we have confirmation that Wilson's marriage sucks, and that he's a golfer, and that House matters to him as much as, if not more than his job), and both RSL and HL acted their little butts off on that.

Someone above mentioned Foreman saying "your son is doing good", and being irked by the grammar mix. It may be a colloquialism, more than anything. It sounds IC for Foreman to say that; not so much if House did. (On that line, how hilarious was it when House had to try to explain his metaphor to Cuddy! So brilliant!)

Speaking of metaphors, I feel a big fangirl ramble coming on about the genius about the episode's title, but I have to rush to class. So, for later.

on loving this episode:

House rocks - dang if he didn't MAINTAIN in the midst of the melee. Incorruptible; I like it. Even in the face of his best and only friend telling him that if he just woulda caved... but he didn't and his face showed he never would. love IT.

Jaxgirl: "office envy!" too funny. :lol:

What the heck was Chase doing at the drinking party? ...AWKWARD... I can't figure him out. He seems to be such a lost puppy. And just were they celebrating? The fact that they were losing their jobs? As good a reason as any I guess. Cuddy's wild college days stood her in good stead.

So is Wilson back on the Board?

Will we see I'm-taking-my-ball-and-going-home-Vogler again?

-Pradon

I didn't think it was really, but I didn't think it was a dream at first. I thought they were doing some sort of exercise on House's bedside manner. Then two things tipped me off:
A) When he walked to Vogler, he did not have his cane, nor did he limp.
B) He touched Vogler. No matter how sympathetic he was for Vogler at the time, I don't think he would ever touch him.

House touching ANYBODY like that? Oh no. When I saw that, that's when I KNEW it was a dream.

That's what first tipped me off as well.

It's was kinda sad how he dreams about himself walking. How badly he wants to be like everyone else. :(

I loved the House/Vogler scene at the beginning too--dreaming your arch enemy has stage 4 liver cancer--incrediably dark but funny! After the 1st board meeting scene, I found myself wishing it had been true!

I didn't understand why Chase was celebrating at the end, either. He should be shaking in his boots now that Vogler's gone, particularly after his arrogant reaction to House asking how he was supposed to trust him in last week's episode. I was also a little confused by Cuddy's little admonition to House and the crew at the end. Yeah, they lost alot of money but it was obvious that Vogler's intention wasn't to save lives, it was to make himself even more money and use the contribution to force his will on others as part of a big power trip. In the long run, they'd save just as many lives without Vogler's interference--look at all the people they've helped so far.

Yeah, we all know who really has the clout at PPTH!

I am so glad that evil bastard took his money and left! I was jumping up and down! I can hang up my "Vogler Hater Club President" jacket and cut back on my meds! :P

I am so anxious to see what happen in the last two episodes of the season!

*bites nails*

PPD

Are there only two new ones left? Boy did I lose count.

BTW - welcome back PPD! :D

-Pradon

:: steals jacket ::

Alright...now I look cool B)

Actually, there are still *four* new episodes left for Season One, plus there's a rerun for next week. :-)

Hugs,
Sanlin

Might Cuddy now be worried about her job? I mean I don't know how it all works but as administrator I'm sure she has to answer to someone. She 's not the top dog.

Her wrangling just cost the hospital $100 million. I'm sure that's not going to go over well with the money people. Might even effect future contributions.

Not only that but I bet she feels like crap because she originally voted to revoke House's tenure. I could be wrong here but I think at the time she thought it was the wrong thing to do but felt there was no other choice. Once she got a second chance she did the right thing, but is upset with herself for doing the wrong thing first

As far as Chase, I still think House will give him a second chance. Chase will pay a price for it, he's not going to get off easy but he'll get a second chance.

Hmmm another second chance! Didn't lose everything ! Do I sense a theme here!

I would think she'd answer to the board of directors...?

Yeah but she only had to convince one other member to take a stand. I think House or Wilson said she convinced 4 others but still that's not all of them and when money gets tight it'll all be her fault.

rtlemurs, I thought that Cuddy's voting to revoke House's tenure the first time was just a tactical decision. Everybody else had their hands up already, except Cuddy and Wilson. Cuddy looked over at Wilson, then raised her hand. Since she knew Wilson would never vote against his buddy, she decided to be cagey and stay on Vogler's good side.

Was she leaving Wilson out to dry? Maybe. She must have known that Vogler would go after him. The next obvious step would be for Vogler to kick Wilson off the board. Maybe Cuddy thought that Vogler wouldn't succeed at this. After all, with House, probably some of the Board members wanted to get rid of him anyway, and others could at least tell themselves that that was their motive rather than the money. But voting against nice, professional, responsible, department-head-before-the-age-of-forty Wilson is tantamount to selling out.

So, maybe Cuddy had faith in her fellow board members not to vote out Wilson. Or maybe she was being pragmatic: either the board would vote out Wilson, or they wouldn't. If they didn't, problem solved -- at least for today. If they did, then Cuddy could decide whether this was worth taking a stand over.

This seems in character for Cuddy. She doesn't want to expose herself to risk unnecessarily, but when she decides it is necessary, she kicks butt!

Good explaination, I hadn't really thought of it that way.

But why was she such a buzzkill at the end. I mean I can see maybe not wanting to celebrate after just dodging a bullet, probably still a little shaken but to drag everyone else down doesn't fit that.

Well, her hospital had just lost $100 million dollars. Even if it was good to get rid of Evil Overlord Vogler, it's still $100 million dollars. I also don't want to think about the words that Vogler gave Cuddy after he was ousted from his position. Probably wasn't a happy confrontation. Cuddy realizes what the hospital has lost, and even if she's glad that Wilson and House are still around... I'd still be crying over the money.

That and the champagne may have gone to her head a bit. She did glug the stuff.

She actually looked like she'd had a few before she even joined their little party.

See that's why I'm broke and not a business person. When money comes with those kinds of strings I'm fine with a good riddance and no looking back. $5, $1,000,000, $100 million, doesn't matter. Fortunes are made and lost in a day.

San: Sa-Da-Tay! That's great news. :D More is good.

Ok, I re-watched Tuesday's episode last night and saw something that bugged me then and is bugging me now: why, when House held so tightly to his integrity by altering the speech even when he knew that it could shakedown a number of jobs at the hospital - not the least of which was his friend Wilson's job - did he tell Vogler that he "fired" Cameron? There was something very incongruous to me about him lying to Vogler about that. Like, no I won't lie about the *big* things but the little things, yah, what the heck.

Huh? Just seemed like an odd thing for him to lie about when there was really nothing for him to lose by telling the truth. Or was there...?

Anyone else catch on this? Any other ideas?

-Pradon

One possibility is that if House told Vogler that Cameron *quit,* Vogler would still force House to 'fire' one of his remaining Ducklings--which would be Foreman, since Ratboy was being protected by Mr. Evil. Vogler, being the bastard that he is, could have said that Cameron didn't 'count' because she left, voluntarily, instead of being canned by House. Just a thought...

Or, maybe House really doesn't like having to deal directly with "loud, angry giants threatening [him] with violence." LOL What did House have to lose, at this point, trying for a 'save' on the situation, when he knew Vogler had to be peeved with House for the speech House gave. Since Cam is already gone, why not try to get the most out of her sacrifice?

And, I don't know that House was really considering the possible fallout from making that speech. It was the right thing to do, at the time--and Vogler p'd him off, besides--so, he did it. House wasn't thinking about having to watch his friend, Jimmy, stand in his cramped office throwing pens and bowling trophies into a cardboard box, at the time. And, House thought that he, himself, was 'untouchable'--rather naively, as James kept trying to warn him--because of his tenure. House is definitely *not* the social and political animal that Wilson is... ...and, even Wilson couldn't do much with a hostile/unstable and viciously overbearing entity like Vogler.

Hugs,
Sanlin

I think House really didn't think Vogler could do anything about it. He said it himself, he's been through regime changes. He survived without tenure, and he's gotten away with pretty much everything thus far. He knew Vogler would get pissed and want to get rid of him, but I don't think he actually thought any one else's jobs were on the line. I mean...firing Wilson? WTF?

Cuddy was awesome, but she was a hell of a lot nicer than I would have been. I would have attacked Vogler's integrity, intent, and perhaps even signed off with, "I hope to God when you or one of the people you love get sick, the doctors who treat you are DOCTORS, and NOT businessmen." Or something along those lines.

To quote South Park's own Eric Cartman..."Screw you guys, I'm going home!" At least that's how I am imaging it. :lol:

Pradon, I don't think lying necessarily viloates House's integrity. As Wilson pointed out to House, Vogler wasn't actually asking House to lie about the new drug -- the drug did work. But, as House replied, Vogler wasn't asking him to do anything, he was ordering him. It was sucking up that went against House's personal code of behavior.

As for lying, well, House said once that he never lies. But I think he was joking. In any case, I don't think he would have too much trouble rationalizing lying when it's for the greater good. I'm sure Cameron would want him to do so.

House lied, but he will as Wilson said "lie,cheat and steal to get what he wants". House seems not to have any hard and fast rules- he cares for Wilson more than most anyone but admitted he would have made his speech again, knowing the fallout. He didn't lie to save himself with his Cmaeron comment to Vogler and this would be the only kind of lie which would be bad, in my book. He doesn't lie to save himself, but does lie to suit his purpose, is my take on it.

Hmm, I can see what you're saying, but it still seems to me that the lie was a capitulation of sorts in that he told Vogler he'd done exactly what Vogler had asked him to do - fire a duckling. To sorta use the antithesis of a Star Trek metaphor, he was saving the "one" (Foreman) and sacrificing the "all" (Cameron, Wilson, Cuddy) instead of vice versa. But, that said, I can't imagine him capitulating to Vogler on any level and, I guess, that's what caught my attention. With the walls crumbling around him he assumed his lie would carry weight with Vogler when House knew it was he himself that Vogler was after and the others were merely casualties of Vogler's vain chess match with House. It's not a criticism by any means; House is human and who knows what drives him to do what he does? The complexity of the character is what makes him, like anyone, interesting.

-Pradon

Although I don't think the lie itself was problematic, there did seem to be something capitulatory (is that even a word? if not, it should be :-) about House's demeanor in that scene. He seemed intimidated by Vogler. Prior to that scene, House came off as cocky or smug around Vogler. And later, when he was angry about Vogler's interference with his patient, he was fearless. But in that one scene, House seemed a bit wigged out. Part of it might have been because Vogler just suddenly appeared within House's personal space -- the whole angry giant thing.

So, when House said that he cut Cameron, there was an unusual nervousness in his voice. He wasn't just lying, he was bargaining. He was tacitly acknowledging that Vogler had the upper hand, and was trying to avoid Vogler's wrath. Pretty unusual for House! But, I think, understandable under the circumstances. I like it that he recovered his snark by the end of the scene, once Vogler got out of his face, by mockingly saying, "So, that's a 'no' on us being squared away?" (or something like that).

I just noticed from the screencaps that at the celebration, Wilson is drinking out of House's red coffee mug.

Make of that what you will.

My thought having watched again and thought about the whole Vogler arc is that it has shown us that despite his obvious genius, House does have some pretty big flaws. He has not been the hero, Cuddy resolved the Volger situation. House evaded the issue of sacking, has no idea about office politics, underestimated Vogler and added fuel to his fire at every turn. Until he appeared House triumphed pretty much regardless, but he has made a hash of a number of of things since Vogler arrived.

Which is great because it makes him far more interesting and if everything he did was gold - where would they go? It was important, for me, that Cuddy sorted out Vogler, because she needed to remain a strong character. I think Babies and Bathwater showed House realising the consequences of his speech typified by his Vogler avoidance. But House can't learn too many lessons or he will loose his edge, so I was pleased he was contrite with Wilson but acknowledged he'd do it all over again. Signinficant for me he was back in his safe place, studying the scan and doing what he does best. after all all the turmoil in the final scene.

I noticed that during the episode and my little fangirl heart just about went bust. :D I guess it's House's atonement for getting Wilson fired.

However, House was drinking out of Foreman's usual mug, so I don't know about reading too much into the mug-swaps.

Wilson likes golf and bass fishing based on the trophies he's got. Golf I see, but bass fishing came as a surprise. And the changes of clothes/dry cleaning he had in his office--yup, someone doesn't go home sometimes it seems. ^_^ And he's got a dinky little office for a dept. head. But I can see him taking the same size office as everyone else, cause he's just that kind of guy.

Re: the fallout. Aside from Cameron, I have a feeling that this is going to be one of those 'that never happened' things when it comes to Cuddy's responsibility to whomever, Chase's betrayal, etc., and everyone will just go back to normal. Cause that seems to happen in tvland. 'Remember that time you cost us all that money? No, I don't. Whenever did that happen?'

Glad to see that there are four eps left. For some reason, I thought there were only three and wondered why they'd cut one. But now, yay!, May will rock! Can't wait for the last two especially. They will own me.

Cheers,
Sy

I completely missed the significance of House's movements in the dream, as pointed out by Marisol - the entire scene, when I first saw it, just made my jaw drop, as is huh? It made me feel that the showmakers were giving a little nod to the fans... just a treat, for hanging on.

I was confused about Chase's presence as well. It should be interesting to see how they follow through on this - I'm still not confident of the reasoning behind his alliance shift.

Anyway, loved it, of course.

I was wondering, did anyone else get the feeling that it wasn't their first drink?
Chase especially seemed drunk when he was playing with the football, first he threw it quite low to Cuddy and next he hardly caught it.
Also, the rest of them seemed a bit out of it too, just a bit too happy and amazed at little things(like Cuddy drinking the whole glass in one gulp, even though that was... shocking)
Am I just imagining it or did anyone else see that?

I don't know about the rest of them, but *Cuddy* seemed pre-tanked. LOL She sounded inebriated and was weaving and bobbing a bit unsteadily on her feet. LOL I don't think her drinking had been of a *celebratory* nature, though... *g* :lol: ;)

Hugs,
Sanlin

When House was chasing down Vogler, and they had that full on confrontation, it was positively electric.

Usually it's House the Bastard v. Person Who Doesn't Know Better, and here, it was House the Righteous Warrior v. Vogler the Evil Expander of His Tiny Empire.

I really understood, I think for the first time, what it can mean when you do the right thing. It can move mountains, and it can be unbelieveable. It can be a death warrant, and it break precedents.

Wow.