This was a great episode! I'm still in shock hearing that House' dad abused him!! I knew it couldn't be his grandmother, he never mentioned her, either in this episode or the past 3 years of the show.

I liked the chat between him and Wilson, very nice. The bet between him and Cuddy about diagnosing patients without touching them made me laugh.

I'm amazed that House opened up to this young girl and she to him and his answer to Wilson and Cuddy as to why he did it, saying "I don't know..taking it one day one room" (Or something like that).. I'll admit this concept confuses me.. does this mean taking each person that comes into our room one day at a time and then going to the next room?

I'm not too good with philosophical stuff like this..

This was an episode worth waiting for!! :D

Next week's episode looks great too!! I wonder why House is in a wheelchair though?? Interesting!

God and peace
Vanessa :)

I'll save my comments when I actually watch the ep a 2nd time... and thus can fully take in everything. In short... I liked it. In shorter and shallower news: YES! Damien RICE! I've been in love with that song since November.

Wow! Just . . . Wow!

I loved seeing House try to apply his methods to figure out what to do in a situation where there may be no clear right answer. There was no medical mystery, but there was a puzzle of a more murky kind, and it was great seeing House slowly get sucked into it. I like how he "solved" the puzzle -- figured out how to connect with the girl and start her healing process -- but then, at the end, pointed out that this might not even be the right answer.

The reveal about House's dad had more the feel of "oh yeah, that explains the weird vibe we saw between them back in early season two" than "OMG House was abused" -- which I liked. It was interesting that, when the rape victim asked House if anything bad had happened to him, he understood that she meant human cruelty, not a quirk of nature like his infarction.

Great lines (some paraphrased):

Victim: So I'm raping you?!?
House: In a very non-invasive, more annoying than traumatic way . . .

Wilson: Are we role playing? Am I you? I don't want to be you!

Cameron: Tell her your life was great . . .
Foreman: Tell her your life sucked . . .
Chase: Keep her sedated.

I'm kind of... ambivalent on this episode.

I mean yea, we got to peel back a few layers of the onion/ogre that is House, but daddy issues? Oh come on, writers, give us something a little less predictable!

<_<

But other than the cheese factor of House having Daddy Issues (no wonder Chase is so attached to him), it was an interesting episode, I will admit.

I'm kind of surprised he finally managed to talk to Rape Girl (can't remember the girl's name), though I don't know if I'd say he "opened up" to her - he discussed philosophical issues with her, but he does that with just about anyone he thinks is being stupid, and he did tell her the details of What Daddy Did, but he hardly got gushy with her or mentioned at all how he felt about anything.

I did think it very telling that the POTW sort of shoved something in House's face that I don't think he really cared to think about - that even if there is no afterlife, it still doesn't really matter what he does. I think he, too in a lot of ways that he'd never admit, is looking for some sort of meaning or reason behind all the crap-ness of life, and I think that's why he was so resistant to talking to her the whole episode - as he told everyone in the universe - there's no answer, so why talk about it?

But I think he's almost afraid that there is an answer and that he's not going to like it. Brings to mind that nun episode back in season one - "You can't not believe in God and be angry at him at the same time". I don't know if the producers and writers have the balls to do an episode genuinely dealing with House's religious/spirtual issues in-depth but I think it would make an interesting, if potentially controversial, story.




I keep saying it every stupid episode this season, but I HATE CAMERON'S HAIR!! Argh, BANGS! PONYTAIL! What are you, a middle schooler? Yikes!

Speaking of Cameron, I think her story with the dying crazy guy was a very good mirror of House's story - the patient being so desperate to find some sort of meaning in his death, as he could not find any in his life. I can see House in a similar predicament on his deathbed in the future. Anyway, it turned the episode into a nice duet. I kept waiting for the two stories to collide or cross in some way, but I think it worked well even though it never did.

Also just want to mention my favorite line (not exact quote, just what I remember from last night) -

Wilson - Wait, is this a role-play, are we role-playing? Am I supposed to be you, cos I don't wanna be you!"

:P

I am with Nomad on this. I need more viewings. Although I will say that I liked this episode. Not loved it which makes me believe it will grow to be one of my favorites. I didn't particularly care for "No Reason" on first viewing but now that I've viewed it several times and start to understand the nuances and subtlties of it, I love it. So rich and deep. I have a feeling this episode will be the same in that respect.

In both of these there is so much to take in and so many interconnecting themes and moods it's hard for my puny brain to grasp it all in one veiwing. Of course my mother rattling the newspaper as I'm tring to watch didn't help either! <_<

I didn't find it terribly suprising that House's father was abusive. And this is going to sound bad but I don't, and never have seen House's dad as being overly violent. That he would actually beat on House but I do see him as a big time disciplinarian. That "You will obey my rules or there will be consequences" kind of guy. That the sleeping on the lawn or ice baths were known punishments for misbehavior. House knew the rules and the lines and the consequences, he just chose to disobey, thus suffering the consequences of his actions. Daddy House didn't just fly off the handles and make things up. That doesn't mean it wasn't abuse, it just shows me that House has always been like he is. Always pushing the limits and testing the boundaries.

And to a degree, House is abusive :huh: :D . I think he recognizes a certain amount of that in himself and it may be why he pushed Stacy away. Maybe having children was the thing the he was talking about when he siad "Eventually you'll want something I can't give you". Knowing that if he ever had children he might just be like his father and he doesn't want to do that.

Also, the "You owe me" line from Cuddy. She knows he keeps tabs on that (How much do I love the fact that she knows this?! :D ). That he will make sure there are consequences for actions. That he will pay the price for his deeds and make others pay the price for theirs to him.

This also keeps continuity from the Weber in "Distractions" and Crandell in "Who's Your Daddy". House keeps tabs on debt. Whether he is owed or owes he will keep track until the debt is paid. That's why I think Wilson is still in for payback. House just hasn't figured out what is appropriate yet and will wait for the perfect opportunity to take what is owed.

I hope they don't drop this into oblivian but I also hope they don't play on it too much. It just confirms what I think some suspected but I don't think it explains a whole lot. Or at least doesn't explain who House is or why he is like he is. I think it only explains the 'debt' thing and the comment in SoCG about "You were right, you made the right choice", but other than that I don't see that it exposes all that much.

I loved Wilson this episode. You picked the quote tpel! "Am I you? I don't want to be you." :lol:

I just adored that scene. I was just good to see them trusting each other again. Like coming home after an unpleasant journey. And it also plays on the theme that things will change for a while but will ultimately return to where they were (I can't remember the exact line he said to Foreman after "Euphoria". Something about the change lasting for two months then it'll wear off)

Okay, enough for now, I am off to get some work done. I can't wait to hear what the philosphy folks around here have to say about this one because I'm sure I missed a bunch.

**ETA** I'm a slow typer and didn't see your post when I started Sam!

Nice catch on the parallels with Cameron''s case. I'll have to watch again with that in mind and see if I get the same impression.

And, we already know that House has Daddy issues, this just told us a little bit of why. Yes, it is cliche, but it is also a pretty true to life. When a kid has deep issues with a parent, it is usually because of abuse.

Yes, it would have been more interesting if House had a normal average childhood and either just is the way he is or something else (or several somthing elses) made him the way he is but, as I said above, I don't think this explains why he is the way he is. I think it might explain some things but is nowhere near the entire picture.

Which brings another though to mind. House is all about science and facts and the cold hard truth which would lend itself to the Nature argument but this episode and many of the things he avoids lend themselves to the nurture argument. So, can House argue these things away with cold hard facts? That we are what we are because of genetics or are we influenced by the people around us?

I think he wants to believe in the former but cannot discount the later so he tries hard to avoid it. Now I'm just babbling in type. Please ingonre the freak at the keyboard! :lol:

Like I said, I hope they don't drop it but I hope they don't harp on it either. That end comment about one day, one room seems to hint that he has already commited his mind to dropping it. But, if he embraces her philosophy that these one room encounters are what make up who we are then maybe he will think deeper about this.

With House we just don't know do we?! And that's why we keep coming back for more. :P

I don't really have feelings for this episode one way or the other. I'll re watch it as soon as that website uploads its. I don't think it was a bad episode, nor was it a good one it was probably the only episode of House that I couldn't get into.

ETA I realized that the last line of the episode where House goes "All we did was make a girl cry," I agree with that; never been raped, but I know when I'm forced to talk about my problems (To someone other then online people) I want answers not someone to just listen. And their's never an answer which was portrayed by everyone giving House different advice. Maybe their is but no one knows.

House has got to be the most philosophically sophisticated character on television. Last night he touched on at least four major philosophical controversies, and, on all of them, what he said was clear and consistent with past comments he's made on the subjects. He may not always be right, but he's never muddled. And he never takes the easy way out of a debate.

The topics I recall:

(1) The Problem of Evil -- a classic argument against the existence of God that says that God couldn't exist, since if God did exist he would stop awful things from happening. House is appropriately skeptical about some of the replies theists tend to make, such as that God is challenging us. But he doesn't dismiss the possibility that God could have reasons for permitting bad things to happen.

(2) The Meaning of Life -- The dilemma was clearly presented: If God exists, then this life is meraningless because it is just a prelude to eternity. But if God doesn't exist, then there are no long term consequences to our lives (i.e., we'll all die, the sun will eventually burn out, leaving no trace of what we've done), so life is meaningless.

(3) Abortion -- I loved how House didn't get caught up in the whole "is it murder" question. He asserted that it is murder (or, at least, the taking of human life) and that there is not much moral difference between doing it before or after birth. But he argued for taking advantage of the practical line we have, birth, to decide which murders are permissable.

(4) The Principle of Sufficient Reason -- for everything that happens, there is a reason or sufficient explanation; things don't "just happen". House supports this principle, as he did in "Damned if You Do", though he rejects the theological spin on it (he's looking for reasons, but not God's reasons). Thus, the idea that there is no answer about what he should do, and the idea that the rape victim has no reason for wanting House, grate against his principle.

I really liked this episode even more and it makes more sense after watching it a second time.

House' answer to Wilson at the end of the episode makes sense.. if House sees this girl in the future randomly he'll pursue her, if he doesn't see her he won't pursue her.. which makes sense.

I did really like how House opened up tp her and she to him..I knew it wasn't his grandmother, he never said anything about her..I figured it had to be his dad.

I do like the fact that the writers used this type of episode to show House changing and talking to patients, opening up to people..great job!! :) I can't for next week..it looks fantastic..this is by far the best most intrigung episode of this season :)

God and peace
Vanessa :)

x-posted from my blog

House Reviews LJ

Our lives are a series of rooms that add up to who we are and why we are. Everything that happens to us: the events—personal, public and global; and the people who we encounter for good or evil, or some admixture of the two help frame the person we are, whether we’re 25 or 45. Or 75.

I’ve never liked House (either the series or the character) because House, the doctor, is an unrepentant asshole. A jerk supreme, who is cool to watch for his outrageous behavior. The only explanation being that that’s simply who he is. The literary heroes to whom I’ve gravitated since I was about 10 years old have always been tragic heroes. Disillusioned romantics and idealists who suppress their romanticism and idealism within a carefull guarded crypt, sentries posted every 25, or so, centimeters. I’ve lived for those rare literary reveals (whether in a movie/television or in a novel) of the true soul and heart of the hero.

One Day, One Room was a gift and delight. It made me laugh with House, want to throttle him for being dismissive of what Cuddy did for him, and made me weep for him when his truth revealed itself in the safe company of a person who will be in a different room tomorrow with another person.

So House likes to spend time in the park where he jogged. He “watches and imagines.” How sad is that? In the dead of winter (albeit a pretty mild winter), House finds escape in thinking about the might-have-been of the Ketamine. So, instead of “feeling the healing” he sets himself up to even more acutely feel the terrible loss he’s suffered for a second time. OK. Ladybugs don’t live in New Jersey in January. Probably. Although in Chicago, with an incredibly (up till this week) mild winter (hello global warming!) I have seen my irises pop the surface of my garden, and my grass stay very, very green. I did see ladybugs up until very late November (they love the spaces between my exterior an d interior windows, so who knows?) A ladybug crawls on House’s hand. The endlessly curious House watches it, blows on it (to get it to move on?), but doesn’t flick it from his hand, squash it or ignore it as most people would be inclined to do. I loved that small glimpse of House, who is not indifferent to the (micro) world around him. This was a lovely little reveal of a sensitive soul (or maybe I’m making too much of it—on the other hand they spent quite a bit of time with the camera following House’s interaction with the bug, so I’m inclined to think of this is a reveal of the sensitive aspect of House, who cares about patients’ rights; who plays Bach; who writes dopey prescriptions for ‘heart problems’ and buys corsages.

Like lots of you, I did love that moment when Cuddy finds House laying on the picnic table, no longer watching the joggers or bugs, but maybe the clouds or the tree-tops. I’m wondering if this park thing is a result of his rehab and (likely) therapy. I wonder if the time in therapy; the near-suicide prior to it, etc. have push some of House’s emotions closer to the surface? Would he have admitted what he did to Eve late in the episode, had his emotions not been closer than usual to the surface? Maybe the park, the acute feelings of loss (suggested by his desire to sit in the park and watch—by the way—that does hearken back to season 1’s Paternity, doesn’t it?). I’m probably off base (I know I tend to romanticize House more than I should, but, hey, it’s my commentary, right ;)

I was, I shallowly admit, shouting “kiss him, you idiot,” to Cuddy. Actually I wasn’t because my Husband chose to watch House with me, so I couldn’t do that (damn.) But I would have had he not been there!

So Cuddy is surprised that he’s on Vicodin again. Where’s he getting it? Was a decision made ultimately that that was, in fact, the drug he should be on while in rehab? Is Wilson writing for him? Is he getting it illegally? Questions for the future. (I have my own interpretation in my fanfic Transitions—apologies for the shameless self promotion.)

House does see the writing on the wall. He’s chained to Cuddy and sees the potential of her escalating demands. His life is still out of his own control. Cuddy owns him. She threatens, but (as she should know) it doesn’t work. “You owe me.” This is something that House understands. He does owe her. And doing clinic duty for her is a way to pay down the debt. So, with that he goes back with her.

Fundamentally, House is House. Rehab hasn’t changed him. He hates the clinic. It bores him and his sizable ego tells him it’s a waste of his time. I loved the encounter with the hyper-hygienic dude. He’s judges House, whose outward appearance suggests a lack of personal hygiene (but we know it’s just unpressed clothes and uncombed hair.) He’s unkempt but clean. On the other hand, the patient has fungus in his nose (ewww) from misguided hyper vigilance to cleanliness. Outward appearances can be deceiving.

So this brings us to Eve. I completely bought into and loved the progression House’s relationship with her. I believed it. She reeled him in on his own terms. She engaged him by discussing philosophy and religion (things he’s good at discussing) and was rewarded by disarming him and finding within him a survivor—someone she could relate to and connect with on an elemental level. And reveal her feelings about being raped (since, even though he would deny it, he can understand the loss of control; the powerlessness and the need to reclaim that control). I’m as intrigued as House is at what she saw in him that made her connect, even as he dismissed her at the beginning.

I loved the fact that, realizing she’s a rape victim, House sought to remove himself from the case. His “do you really think I’m the right doctor for her?” to Cuddy reveals his insecurity in his ability to deal appropriately and helpfully with her. He is wrong. Chase agrees with House—that he is the wrong person to deal with Eve. Cameron is actually right on this, despite the fact that she’s “romanticizing” House, believing that House, once you dig beneath his walls, can be and is empathic in a way that none of them can be. He is one of the walking wounded, and as such may be able to reach Eve, when no one else can. House refuses to pity her, much like he hates, himself, to be pitied. He’s brusque with her, and she’s comfortable with that.

But House doubts himself. He believes that he has no clue as to how he’s “supposed to act”—read “supposed to feel” from Meaning. He takes his cues from Cameron, Chase and Foreman. He goes into Eve and says the things he’s “supposed to say.” “You’ll make it.” “Everything’s going to be OK.” “You don’t trust men.” All the platitudes that House hates. He tries them on Eve and he fails to reach her. She simply wants to talk. She doesn’t want the damn platitudes. No more than she wants anyone’s pity.

Maybe she wants to be distracted from thinking about the rape. The passage of time will heal (as a person who in RL occasionally counsels people dealing with the death of loved ones, time does help. Not to forget, but to blur) she tells him. House disagrees. Time alone does nothing. Actions alone will change things. Doing nothing accomplishes…nothing. And he should know, shouldn’t he? Time has done nothing to erase the emotional pain he’s been through.

He still wants to know “why him?” She is, during this part of the conversation, unnerving him bit by bit. He doesn’t understand. Or maybe he does. Maybe he thinks she can “see” him, as only another wounded soul can. This really, really gets to him. And then she asks the biggie: “Has anything terrible ever happened to you?” And he has no clue as to how to deal with this question. That he doesn’t dismiss it; respond with an easy lie (that, convincingly delivered she would believe), says something as to how much she’s getting under his skin. He could say: “Yeah. I was shot six months ago…wanna see my scar? See? I survived! Notice I have a cane? Wanna know how that happened? Yeah. Life sucks. Some lives suck worse than others. It’s life. So what?” But he doesn’t. He’s baffled. Wilson thinks this is no big deal to answer. Tell her the truth. You were shot. End of story. But I think House realizes that getting shot by an angry patient is not equivalent to getting raped. He doesn’t know what will help her. If that reveal will help her.

“Tell her the truth.” “There is no truth.” This is a significant exchange between Wilson and House in that (as Wilson says) this is role reversal. House’s real truth—his real terrible thing, the one that has indelibly scarred him, more than his leg or the bullet wound in his abdomen is one not easily shared or explained. What is the truth? That he was abused? That his mother never intervened? That he deserved the abuse? That it wasn’t abuse, but simply harsh discipline? There is no objective truth to why House was abused by his father. Talking about it won’t change that. House has dealt with the abuse by deciding that people are generally bad, but who do good things despite their instincts. There is no God—or if there is one, He is incredibly cruel. That what we do during our lifetime is the only thing that matters. That our lives on earth aren’t simply “a test” (re: 3 Stories). What we do during our lifetimes is what really matters.

So House decides to tell her a half-truth. The way he delivers it, he might be telling her an outright lie simply to get her to talk. He tells her the story simply, dispassionately, distancing himself from the telling by his matter-of-fact disclosure. Like it was no big deal. If you watch Hugh’s face, it is so clear that he’s put up a window shade in front of his eyes. They are flat and completely devoid of emotion as he discusses his grandmother. It is only when she argues with him that it couldn’t be true because he still called her “oma” that HL lets emotion seep into his expression…but just a little. And that emotion is anger that she’s called him on the lie.

(Side note: I’ve always thought that Hugh somewhat resembles my very tall –and in his youth—lanky uncle, who is blue eyed and is Dutch—Dutch-Jewish actually. He is blond. It was jarring to hear House discuss his Dutch descent—and I know that Hugh Laurie is of Scottish and not Dutch descent, but it was cool. End side note.)

House hastily backs away from his story after Eve calls him on the unbelievability of having gone through it with no change in his warm relationship with a grandmother. “It’s someone’s story,” he retorts, frustrated that she can read him. He keeps backing away and getting drawn in by the argument. This he can do “well.” He can debate the academic, the non-personal, philosophy applied to a greater world. He’s back in his comfort zone, but he keeps coming back to the question of “why him.” What does she want from him?

He practically begs Cuddy to get him out of the room in which he’s trapped. Then the bombshell. She’s pregnant. The next scene simply blows me away. Clearly having gotten to him, Eve hears the news from House. He sits on her bed to tell her. He sits close to her and wants to be assured as to how she taking the news. He has no question but that she should abort the pregnancy. She says no. The triggers a discussion about the sanctity of life, God, and the value of life. Again, in House’s comfort zone.

And then, he does her a real kindness. He has no reason to keep her in the hospital. She’s survived the OD; she wants to keep the kid. House now has the perfect way out of the room. He can discharge her. “I don’t want to go,” she pleads. “Then I won’t discharge you.” House reassures her. Click. The dynamics have changed and House doesn’t take the way out when he can. He stays. “Want to take a walk?”

I think House finds comfort away from the hospital. I think he likes the out-of-doors: his motorbiking; running, etc. I think being outside frees him a little bit (or not). Anyway, he takes Eve to his picnic bench. He’s decided to make her talk, and maybe away from the confines of the hospital and claustrophobic environment of the hospital room, she will feel freer and more able “to talk.”

“I don’t want to talk about it.”
“Neither do I. Too bad.”

More philosophy and then the big question once again. “Why me?” It’s almost as if by this point House is more than unnerved by her. He’s positively spooked by this connection to her that he’s clearly also now feeling. Like so many of House’s patients these past two and half seasons, the wounded see each other. There’s a favorite passage in Jane Eyre. I think my absolute favorite. Where Rochester is about to send Jane to Ireland to be governess on the eve of his marriage. He tells her that he feels a cord of communion between them. What is the origin of that cord? He feels akin to her. That they have shared, despite the differences in their ages and social upbringings, a shared woundedness. No, I’m not suggesting that kind of relationship exists between House and Eve. Only that people can sense things in each other that are neither overt or even understandable. Just there. She tells him (maybe she’s just figured it out herself) that she saw his woundedness, his hurting. Something in him breaks and it’s heartbreaking and profound. He reveals that it was dad, not Oma. He is finally honest with her. Tells her the truth. His truth. He has thereby enabled her to heal (or at least begin to deal) with the rape. She wants him to know.

But nothing is easy for House, and when Cuddy tells him he’s done good in getting her to talk and to terminate the baby, he can’t accept the pat on the back. He doesn’t know that he’s really, in the final analysis, helped her.

I think the final scene in the episode sums up a lot of what's wrong with his relationship with Wilson and Cuddy. the fact that the episode was written by David Shore is important in sealing it. House does not feel good about having played his part in the game of getting her to talk about her rape. Cuddy and Wilson think he's done good...and good for himself also. But House says what he does: that (to paraphrase:) we comfort ourselves in the fact that we think we're helping her heal, when all we've done is make a girl cry. cuddy and Wilson's efforts to force Humanity onto House--to break down his defensive walls will help him deal with his emotional pain and help him heal. But all its done is to make him dredge up a very painful part of his past that is a key to why he is such an emotional wreck..but it's done nothing to help him. It's only made him feel bad (or worse). It has made him break down emotional barriers that have allowed him to function and exposed him in a way he doesn't want to be exposed.

I simply adored this episode. I think this girl really got to him and got under his skin. She did what Cuddy sometimes does with him, but because she's a stranger and will never see her again, he can afford to expose himself. I did love the fact that by the end he wanted (genuinely wanted) to hear what she had to say.

Shortly: I loved it. I even daresay it's my favorite ep in the whole season, above "meaning" and "son of a coma guy".

Slightly more in detail:

It's pure Shore. No doubt about it. All the characters are 100% themselves as they were intended to be, and everything they say sounds that little bit more "real" than any other times, as it always happens when Shore is behind the keyboard. Every word, every joke, every smart retort, every sudden change from serious to joking and back to serious sounds absolutely natural, as it was in "Three Stories". I'm not saying this episode is up to par with that one, just that the interactions and the dialogs flow with absolute smoothness, in a way only the creator seems able to deliver.

And then, beyond the form... the content. Maybe a large part of why this episode hasn't disappointed me is that I had already been spoilered about the abuse thing, and I had already been severely disappointed in it. I had very low expectations from this episode, because I, too, basically considered this abuse idea as an absolutely trivial and unoriginal idea, so incredibly not-House. I just hoped a completely unoriginal and cliché-ed idea like this could be introduced in a decently original and House-esque form. And I think it has been. And I also think Shore only could do this. "Three Stories" was a complete masterpiece completely out of the blue. This time it's different, it's as if DS had thought "let's take the most obvious and overused psychological excuse - a childhood abuse - and let's see if we can build around it in a way that can make even this idea less unoriginal and boring than usual, and insert it in the House canon without destroying it completely or turning it upside down". And I think he really succeeded. First of all, the very strong emotional detachment in treating the subject, which is something many people complained about, is something I have strongly appreciated: it's very much "house-ish" that House might reveal the name of his abuser with a half-bitter, half-sarcastic (to himself, I suppose) smile, and with no explicit trace at all of the desperation and the helplessness of these epiphany moments we might see in any other tv-series. And it is very house-ish that this detail is introduced, just like the other great shock of his life (the loss of the leg), as only marginally relevant to his character-shaping, and not as "the great and final explanation" of House's whys and hows. It's just something that is told to an external person (back then, the students. Today the girl), with no more reason than the answer to a sudden stimulus (back then the reappearance of Stacy and the unusual duty of the lesson, today the appearance of the raped girl, and the unusual clinic workload), and then just gets back in a corner and doesn't become "the key elemtn" to every interpretation of House's behaviours. It's just one more piece of the puzzle, and more or less a standard one. And that's what's special, because to reduce an exceptionally shocking event to a "normal" event, you have to be a special person in the first place. And the fact that such a key event, in the case of house, is not that much of a key event after all, just one of the many events that make him so special and so unexpectedly able to get in touch with people and situations that people far more sensitive than him would never be able to approach correctly and respectfully, is in itself one more point to his uniqueness. To paraphrase House himself some eps ago, "not normal is normal if you're not normal" :)

I don't think this fact will ever be mentioned again, or not more than two or three times anyway. It's just "One day, one room", an isolated thing that explains itself in itself, and that has no need of connections to the previous or the next episode. And that's exactly how I think an original and clever writer should have dealt with such a dangerously overused deus-ex-machina. Full marks to David Shore, once again :)

Darn this episode for being on the night before my Monster History Test of Dooooom, because I turned it on after five or six hours of studying and I couldn't think. So I'm sure I missed a buttload of connections and nuances, but I was honestly doing pretty well by just staying awake. Some things that did come to mind, though:

Wouldn't it have been cool if they'd staged the entire episode in one room? (Didn't they do that once on X-Files?) But then I guess we couldn't have had the Cameron/homeless guy plot or the beautiful picnic table scene, so maybe not.

Rats. You called it already. :lol:

Wow. House not knowing what to do. One of my favorite things about the episode was watching the Ducklings stride purposefully down hallways and tell House what to do while House trailed along after them looking confused and distressed. Which is a complete role-reversal. And of course that was entirely appropriate for this episode. Well done, whoever directed those shots. B)

On a random note, didn't the judge sort of order House to continue his rehab? I'd rather he didn't, so I'm not too disappointed, but it's weird that Cuddy didn't mention it when she was being all "You're going back to jail if you don't do what I say."

And yeah, as people have already mentioned, I think the fact that House felt an obligation to settle his debt with Cuddy is significant. Didn't he say one time that "the universe doesn't balance itself, but it should?" (paraphrase)

Less Wilson than I wanted this time. :( Fix it, show.

Something else that caught my attention was Chase's immediate agreement with House that he was definitely not the doctor for Eve. I'm not even sure why, but something about JS's delivery and the quick look House gave him in return set off "significant" bells in my head. I'll have to figure it out later.

I watched this with my parents, and my mom said afterward that there seemed to be a thematic connection between House's interaction with his patient and Cameron's interaction with hers, and about the results of each encounter--they picked Cameron the Compassionate, the one who is always seen as most in touch with the feelings of others, to interact with a patient opposite House. There wasn't a whole lot of medicine being practiced in either case; the interaction was purely human. So I think they must have intended to show us a contrast between how those characters handle that. And we think we know how it'll end up--everyone knows Cameron's good at feelings and House is not. But as my mom said, it didn't quite turn out that way. It almost seemed like House ended up doing more for his patient emotionally than Cameron did for hers. I don't know. I was tired. I wasn't Getting it, whatever it was. <_<

Also, I noticed that the most important thing to Cameron's patient was that he be remembered. Cameron told him she'd do it, and I'm sure she will. Cuddy (or Wilson, I can't remember) asks House if he's going to follow up on Eve, and his answer is "one day, one room." That's an interesting contrast, but I'm not sure what it's implying yet.

I understand what you said about Daddy Issues being predictable, Sam, because that was my first thought too. But I think I agree with tpel and rtlemurs that it was presented well and it didn't feel like the Shocking Revelation™ that it would have been on most shows.

That's a good summary of my reaction to it, too. It really didn't feel like that big a deal as I was watching. And yeah, rtlemurs, I'm envisioning Mr. House as having strict, clear rules with some questionable consequences for disobedience, rather than a fly-off-the-handle rage addict.

So I don't know how I feel quite yet. I'm looking forward to watching it again; that's a good sign. I think it was a good effort for their first real Oddball Episode. :)

Hm... I can understand how House might harbor such fears, but I don't really see them as justified, if that indeed is the case in the matter (which I am highly skeptical of). We've seen him deal with kids and I don't think I'd call him abusive. He tends to treat them in a semi-adult manner, which is not entirely appropriate but I don't see that as actively abusive.

If House did have children, I don't think he'd be making them sleep on the lawn or take baths in ice water. In fact, I don't think he'd be able to handle discipline whatsoever at all, because when he speaks to children, he always does so in a manner that would suggest that he expects them to be able to think at least semi-rationally. And while that works somewhat with highly intelligent children after a certain age, say 7 or so, with younger or slower children, that's useless.

If anything, he seems to interact with children much better than he does with adults. Probably because they tend to say what they actually mean and are not pretentious like adults, at least in the case of younger children.

But as for House the Abuser, no, I just don't see it. I can see him being a total iceberg, which in itself I guess could mess a kid up, but not really actively aggressive. It just doesn't make sense in context of what we've seen from House so far.

I haven't had time for a rewatch so I'll just answer Sam this time around since it's not strictly episode based. I'll get back to all the other great thoughts soon.

Oh I don't see House as a child abuser at all! I just think that he knows the cycle of abuse and is afraid of being a parent for that reason. He has enough doubt about his fitness to be a parent that he'd rather not.

In the short run he is great with kids. In fact I love how he deals with them but I think that fear of doing harm is always buzzing around. Add to that his physical pain and addiction and I believe he sees that in the long run, hour after hour, day after day, a kid just might get on his nerves and then what? Look at how short he gets with all around him when he's really hurting. Now imagine a three or four year old with their incessant need for attention. Would he be able to refrain? He either knows he couldn't or has enough doubt to make him hesitate.

Or the kid might not live up to his expectations, as it seem was the case between he and his father. How would he deal with that disappointment? I think this is a somewhat different fear than abuse but still a legitimate reason for him to not want children.

What we believe will happen and the reality of what would really happen are sometime two completely different things. Whther House would or not matters not if he believes he would.

House, I get the impression, actually likes kids and the thought that he might inflict the same kind of damage is a bigger risk than he's willing to take.

I think we will never know on this account but it is fun to specualte and debate :D

Fascinating episode and I totally agree with the comment up thread that it was totally Shoresque. I’ve stayed uber-spoiler free this season (and I’m loving it even more) so I didn’t know it came from Shore for sure until I read it but I suspected because the several ‘fake out’ potential POW’s – also the philosophical bent his ep’s circle so beautifully.
Abuse- yes it is the clichéd tragic character backdrop but I think this was superbly subtle and turned it on its head. Long before the House reveal, Eve’s story ‘trumped’ his in terms of tragedy. I think that was key to making the story real – House was in the place every guy is in the rape cliché (I’m not trivialising but as a story tool event) – he can’t get it. Sure, men get raped but if you are looking purely at a cliché then that is generally the way the story unfolds.
His situation with his old man doesn’t carry the same weight and interestingly brings up the ‘blame’ issue which often mirrors that of rape cases. Date rape is often seen as somehow less brutal than a stranger attack and House is difficult to cast in the victim role. Just as in the scenes in Daddy’s Boy, there is an element to which any objective observer questions the degree to which House may have provoked the situation. There wasn’t the suggestion that his father had physically abused him (again I’m not saying that makes the situation less serious) and I felt as though House was reluctant to ‘trade’ stories until the tables turned in the final scene. It was all about the grey and the randomness of life – sometimes bad stuff just happens. House’s theory that we don’t look to understand something which can’t be explained – was so compelling and the final scene was superbly tense.
As for Cameron *sigh* - I felt George (the big guy) was more poigniant as was the scientist – we’ve had enough with Cameron and dying people. Shore only ever cheeses me because he insists on Cameron being front, left and centre- Jesse Spencer is way too talented to get stuck with so little to do. However he did his stuff brilliantly and the ‘You romantically wanting to believe that’ just rocked.
The funny was awesome (‘Am I you?) and Chase’s ‘keep her sedated’ – I loved the Return of The Clinic – long overdue.

I still have yet to watch this a second time... but I thought House's reaction to Cuddy and Wilson in the end was really poignant. Cuddy was obviously trying to get a little mushy on him... perhaps even spring the question of what he did to get her to open up and move forward. And House's anger at that point was obvious- slamming forward on the fussball, thus ending the game and walking away. I think Sasmom said it- he's pissed that he had to dredge up those memories. It didn't help him- it hurt. I also think that even though he may have helped Eve, he wants to kick himself for revealing that tiny bit of vulnerability from his childhood. He hates vulnerability. And he doesn't want to talk about it anymore- it's over and done.

I wonder how much Wilson knows about House's past... or for that matter, Cuddy. What, exactly, did Wilson mean by telling House to "tell the truth?" Why is it that my only ideas for fanfic come from episode related issues?

Is House back? Boy, is it ever!!

Like many, I was totally blown away by this episode, which is why, along with getting side tracked last night while searching for more information on a song I'm suddenly absolutely in love with, (see more in the General Gabbery Thread) I've taken so long to comment. I'm still not entirely sure I'm done processing yet.

Overall, I'd had no complaints with this season so far, but this episode reminded me again how this show can cause both your head and your heart to hurt at the same time-- there've been quite a few events and reveals lately that cause me to keep saying "oh, my poor 'Housie'" (and wouldn't he just love that nickname :rolleyes: ).

I was just thinking shortly before this episode about what might be interesting to see next and I was thinking I'd like to see some of House's reasoning behind his beliefs in God/a higher power/ the afterlife. Up until now we've seen how House reacts to religious people and what it is about them that annoys him, but we didn't know much about the reasoning that led to his position. We've sort of got that now. Just an interesting side thought too on what might perhaps be some of House's objections to the Judeo-Christian tradition in general. This comes from my own very limited knowledge and experience, but it seems that those who have had negative relationships with their fathers sometimes have difficulty with the conceptualisation of God as a loving father, because the role that fathers have played in their lives has not been a positive thing. Not saying that that's the only reason or even a very common one, so YMMV.

And yowser, the philosophical issues. I'd like to discuss it, if I could get a handle on it, but I don't think I could ultimately say anything that hasn't been said already by my betters, historically and on this board. Tough stuff all around, is all I can say. The specific question of why a good, just, omnipotent God can allow bad and unfair things to happen for reasons we can't discern is one that has caused many doubts and consumed a great deal of thought over the ages. I have my own answers, but it's nice to see a good portrayal of the debate. And I must compliment those involved with this show again for their dealing with religious and philosophical issues. For the most part when believers and belief have been brought up they've managed to make both sides look good and sympathetic.

It's interesting to me too that this show would probably not show up on say Focus on Family's best shows on TV list, or the favorites of many who consider themselves religious, and House can get pretty irreverant so I can see why at times but I have to say that this show has led me several times to really consider my own beliefs. How would I answer House's arguments against the existence of God? For that matter, what would I say to the faith healer who was refusing surgery (as I see no conflict between his acting in accordance with his faith in God and going ahead with the surgery--again not a topic for this thread or perhaps even this board)? Or what would I say to the nun? Do I, as House asserts, only pray and thank God because I'm afraid of being crushed? (the answer being I probably shouldn't, but at times, I do have a bit of that attitude, so what do I do about that?). It hasn't, nor I doubt, will it make me actually reconsider my beliefs, or cause anyone else on either side of the question do so, but it has definitely led me to clarify what I think and why, as well as to look at where I may have gone off track.

I will agree with others that House is probably a bit worried about turning into his father were he ever to have kids and that he might actually be a better father than he thinks. Yes, he does snap at people when he is in distress, but as Cuddy said, he usually does draw a line. I think he is quite aware of what is, I hesitate to say, appropriate, but can't think of another, better word at the moment, to say or do to someone and what is a step too far and he usually doesn't go there.

In a tie in with Daddy's Boy I can see a lot more weight in the words about having seemingly normal parents and it's not just the seemingly that weighs on me. On one hand I can see at least a small part of House believing he did deserve the kind of punishments his dad handed out. Like, someone before me said--again too lazy to look-- he did know that if he didn't do a certain task or do it according to his father's specifications, something would happen, even though the punishment was out of line with the misdeed. It's a bit of a parody of how discipline is supposed to work. You tell the kids what they need to do and how they need to behave and let them know that they will have consequences if they don't comply, but ideally the punishment should relate to the "crime" e.g. if you can't take care of a specific toy, then maybe you shouldn't have it/ or it will get ruined and then you won't be able to use it anymore, or if you can't behave yourself when you go to the store, then you lose the privelege of going to the store for a while. The problem with House's father is that the consequences are way out of proportion. I suspect there was also a bit of unreasonable expectations involved in what his father believe he could do, or how well he expected him to do it. After a certain age, a relatively young one even, you can expect a child to help around the house, but there are some tasks they aren't going to be able to handle until they're older or tasks they won't be able to do as well as an adult could. A five or six year-old can make her own bed, after a fashion, but hospital corners and the ability to bounce a quarter off it after they're finished is unreasonable; helping to put the toys back where they belong, yes, folding their clothes perfectly (no wrinkles, a perfect crease etc.) or organizing the closet to pass military inspection, probably not. House knows this, but there's still the little kid who thinks, if I'd just tried harder, been better, etc., he wouldn't have had to do that to me, so it's my fault.

I'm thinking this also feeds into House's inability to understand unconditional love that we seem to be seing this season. DadHouse doesn't love you for who you inherently are (because you're his son, because, as Eve said, all life is special, because ultimately we all need to do our best to prevent as much pain occuring in the world as possible, because to get sappy--and steal a line from the musical version of Les Mis, and probably misquote it slightly-- to love another is to touch the face of God, because whatever. . .) , he loves you when you're clean, quite, get good grades, etc., but if you don't/aren't then you aren't worthy of love. If this message was not expressed out loud, it was probably implied.

The thing I'm wondering about now is where was MomHouse aka Blythe in all this. Did she go along with it? Did she disapprove, but not know how to stop it? In my mind, as a person who isn't married yet and doesn't have kids, if your S.O. isn't treating you right, or especially, if they're not treating your child right, you are out of there so fast that there's a sonic boom involved, but on the other hand, I'm sure there are many abused women out there who used to think the same thing only for something different to happen when they were faced with the situation itself.

I know there's a whole load of pathology involved there. I can even see it in my own family. For the most part on my mom's side of the family the women, well some of us anyway, may appear docile and harmless, but when push comes to shove and you try to boss us around, good luck. Even my grandmother, who often appeared to be the image of submissive wife, once told one of my uncles--her son--, when he complained that my aunt wasn't keeping the house clean enough for him, that if he was so dissatisfied with the way things were, his arms weren't broken and he knew where the cleaning supplies were, so he could go ahead and do it himself. Yet, two of my female cousins, from the same family, not the one I always talk about who has a college-aged son now, seem to gravatate toward dominent men. One is married to an ex-Marine. Through a variety of circumstances I haven't met him in person (they got married at the same time that I was getting ready to graduate from undergrad, I might have made it down there and then back, but it would have been a bit of hassle, then we're both afraid to fly, her more so than me), so I'm going on the reports of other members of the family who have met him. She seems to love him and they do have three gorgeous, intelligent kids, but he is clearly very much the boss and fits the stereo-type of the macho Marine. Her little sister had several disasterous relationships before she got married, including physically abusive ones. Her husband is a sweet guy and I'm quite sure he'd never hurt her, but again, he is clearly the dominant one--and when he was still her fiance she mentioned at her shower that he complains that she doesn't cook enough, or that she always made the same thing, I don't remember which, and I immediately came out with a variation on my grandmother's comment (what? his hands are broken or something?) my mother and I laughed, while my cousin and her aunts looked at me as if I'd spoken blasphemy. I'm also quite sure that their parents' marriage is not like that, if anything my aunt is the one who runs the show. I'm not sure where it came from, and oddly, if you looked at the families of my mom and her two brothers, their family would be the most conventional one (not that mine is messed up, my father is an absolute sweetheart and so is my Mom, but we tend toward a bit quirky at times). Anyway, I know they're smart and it totally puzzles me that they would gravitate toward relationships with that balance of power.

I wonder if it was a very schizophrenic world for House growing up. When Dad's here, you must follow his rules, but when Dad's away, the rules get relaxed, and everyone is much more happy and at ease, but then when Dad's about to get back, we've got to rush and get everything in shape for him. I could see that. That seems to be the peace that a lot of people make in that situation.

Interesting too on the duckling's comments on what House should do. Very typical for each of them to have said what they did. Chase seems to be a repress and avoid kind of guy, so he says leave her asleep, Foreman is a realist, so he says, tell her what happened to you, Cameron is an idealist and has trouble sometimes reconciling that bad stuff happens and no one can prevent it no matter how nice they are, or that sometimes no decision is the painless one, and the right one may even hurt the most.

I almost want to contradict House and say there is no right answer, but he's right, there's a right way to deal with the situation, the problem, especially for House who doesn't do this well, is that there's no prefab solution. You've got to open yourself up so that you're able to feel out what the other person needs from you. You have to kind of let them drive the process. Now, I'm definitely not a psychologist, so maybe I'm getting it all wrong, but that's ultimately the way I would have dealt with it. I wouldn't have neccessarily made her talk about it, yet. Ultimately, it is like surgery, I'd imagine, that you have to hurt a little to get in there and fix the problem. This hurts however, because you've got empathize with their pain, and you have to put some of your painful bits out there too in many cases. House is clamping down on all that as hard as he can, probably because it's what gets him through the day, just like the inappropriate Vicodin usage, as well as the appropriate usage (it may not be the best drug for his pain, physical or emotional, but, as he says, it lets him do his job and that's all that matters to him).

I was relieved that the Cameron focus of this episode wound up being less, and better, than I had thought. Interesting case for Cameron who is supposedly the "caring one". This should have been a perfect case for her to really do her "stuff". The patient even echoed an earlier statement of hers about not wanting people to leave the world without someone noticing or caring. Granted, this guy's concept of needing to be in pain for that to happen was a bit twisted. Still, we can presume that Cameron didn't really have anything else that need her urgent attention. She was either doing clinic hours, what's the difference in spending time with this patient, or spending time with patients down there, or sitting around the office waiting for House to report back/come up with something for them to do, then again maybe she was spying on House and didn't want to miss anything juicy :D Anyway, complete 360 from her treatment of Cindy (Lou Who) during Acceptance. Now maybe she's taken Wilsons advice about emotional attachment to heart, but, come one, even Wilson, hasn't taken it to heart (and as someone who takes everything personally I can tell you, that if you're that type of person to just disengage is virtually impossible despite the knowledge that doing so would make your life easier), and this is Cameron here. Instead of going in and convincing him that the pain is not neccessary for him to be remembered, and sitting with him, asking him okay, who are you, what are you, what happened, you'll leave a mark on me at least, if not every person you've ever touched in some way, she's like "here's your Morphine, let me just "snow" you out and get out of here". Ultimately, House, the callous jerk, showed way more compassion and understanding that Cameron, the caring one. Hmm.

I too wonder who, if anyone ever outside his mother, his father and himself, knows about House and his father. I sort of doubt it. Cuddy didn't seem to know much of anything about House's parents outside the fact that he does have some--as opposed to having crawled out from under a rock one fine day. Wilson knows House doesn't get along with his dad and thinks his dad is disappointed in him, but, while part of it may just be that he knows the information isn't his to reveal, I don't think he knows the whole truth. I wonder what Stacy knew. I don't believe House would have told her voluntarily either at least beyond "my dad was really strict" and "he and I don't get along well or see eye to eye". The question is what was she able to intuit. As a long-time, serious girlfriend she had the most chance out of the characters we know who are close to House to spend time with the HouseParents. It would depend partially on how aware was she was, how adept at picking up various clues, and how much time she really did spend with them. Apparently House's parents don't live too close to where he is and they travel a lot so how often they were around and for how long could vary quite a bit.

Oh, and one more thing. We know two more languages that House must speak at least somewhat: Dutch and German. The two are very close together, as I discovered by accident one day-- I minored in German, but it's been a while since I've spoken or read it on a regular basis, still I probably read it fairly well, especially if you let my have my handy dictionary nearby, and I happened upon a website that was in Dutch, I tried to read it anyway for some odd reason, and noticed that I was understanding, and not every third word or so, but really nearly word for word. This is born out as well by my fluent, near native, German speaking grandmother and her ability to communicate with the neighbor's Dutch speaking housekeeper more or less in her native language. The spelling and sound of the words as well as the grammatical structure are very similar in both languages (Oma/Omi is both Dutch and Deutsch for Grandma, and the Pennsylvania Dutch should probably be the Pennsylvania Deutsch from the dialect they speak which is apparenlty similar to Platt Deutsch or literally, flatland German). It interested me that my speculation that House was once Haus might have validity afterall--though, and I looked it up because I'm strange like that, the last name could also have English origins. Dutch, or at least Deutsch, grandmothers and others of that descent are also known for being quite interested in everything having a place and being in that place. Sorry about that disgression but I feel the need to show off once in awhile just to prove the stuff I learned at university isn't utterly useless after all.

That's all I can think of for now, and certainly more than enough, but don't be surprised if I manage to come up with more later.

Catlady -- I like your point about House's attitude toward unconditional love.

I just re-watched "Daddy's Boy" and am convinced that neither Wilson nor Cuddy knew or even suspected what House's Dad did. Not surprising really. House is much more likely to share that kind of information with a stranger than with a friend.

I remember thinking at the time this episode aired that there was something seriously off about Dad, but liking Mom. When Cuddy tells House that she's sure his Mom would prefer to believe that House had a prior committment than believe that he hates her, he replies, "I don't hate her. I hate him." Cuddy is using the word "hate" jokingly. House isn't, though he isn't overly emotional about it either -- a simple statement of fact.

In this episode, House mentions that he can't lie to his mother -- she's a "human polygraph". He also describes her as hating confrontation. Putting these two facts together increases the chances that she knew what was going on, but did not intervene. House has been shown to be surprisingly tolerant of human failings, so I can see him understanding and accepting his Mom's position.

I often agree with House on philosophical issues. I don't care how you look at it abortion is murder, whether or not if their's a god. I do understand that it happens out of neccisity, but still doesn't change the fact that your taking another human's life. I could never kill anyone especially someone that had nothing wrong. On the other hand if the child is going to have a miserable life, is it better to abort it realizing that it's better for it, or is it only better for you? are you killing the child because you know you can't take care of it, or because you don't want to? is it posing a health risk? if it was kill the baby or both die, I'd probably kill the baby. If it's one or the other dies, I'd sacrifice myself, knowing my mom would be willing to raise the child, and it hasn't had the chance to screw up. Now if I had no one to take care of it, I would strongly consider sacrificing the baby. I am the type of person to jump in front of a bullet for someone. no matter how much a bitch and complain about people I would sacrifice myself before killing someone else. Maybe I am selfish for it, but I don't think my life is as important as others.


Sorry for the hijack.

Well it is an interesting question. My own views waver sometimes I'm anti-abortion, definitely for myself, but others I'm more of the "if you don't approve of abortion, don't have one". In part, I've seen the fallout from someone keeping a baby they shouldn't have--short story long she was going to give it away, then BabyDad shows up and says, you've not giving my child up-- on one hand she needed the wake up call on the other, it's too bad that in her getting the wake-up call about the choices she was making her son had to suffer as well, and I would really hate to see it go back to the "coat hanger" days. Some people would probably be dissuaded if it weren't legal, the people rich enough to do it would just go on a convenient vacation somewhere where it was still legal, but some people are desperate enough, and others are unscrupulous enough to take advantage of them, that they'd find a way. Sepsis is, from what I've read, not an easy way to go, exsanguination is faster, but tragic.

As for myself, I don't know that any circumstance, but both my death and the baby's would make me get an abortion. I've seen just enough people out there, and known some quite well, who would love to have a child and would certainly be able to give any child of mine a good home if I couldn't or didn't want to. But there are the bonding issues. No matter how hard you try, you will become attached somewhat. I can understand how that could be hard. That was what I was thinking with Eve aka POTW, she could have it then give it up. That and besides the life is precious argument, and yes there are people who chose to do horrible things with their lives, but how do you know about this one, it may out Hitler Hitler, or it may win the Nobel prize, or it could be completely average for that matter, there's no way of knowing, and, I'll side track further, yes, even Hitler's life was, at one point at least, precious to God, though I imagine He is vastly disappointed in what Hitler did with that life, but it was precious and had potential until the day he died, as unlike as any kind of turn around would be. As well, should the child be punished for it's father's crimes?

And I too could count on supportive family, though since my parents are in all likelihood older than yours, I don't know that it would be fair to them to have to raise a young child, but it would work out somehow. Others don't have supportive parents though, so you wonder about that. In the end I guess I can't condemn anyone.

Also interesting on the miserable life question. Once you get into that, you have to decide what's too miserable. Like House said, life has quality. In my opinion just because someone isn't going to have the kind of life a "normal" person would have doesn't mean that their life is miserable, even to the point of someone with minimal function, because, after all, we don't know what's happening in their head. They must feel pleasure and pain in some way, is their pleasure not equal to mine because it comes from a simpler source-- and I know I'm not explaining it well, but say that I derive pleasure from something complex and semi-difficult, or at least requiring some higher thought/reasoning like doing crossword puzzles, or doing calculus (not likely in my case), and someone who has a disability, perhaps who only functions at the equivalent of a young baby, derives pleasure from someone singing to them or holding their hand, or simply being comfortable, is their pleasure not as pleasant as mine? Or, for that matter, do they neccessarily have fewer moments of pleasure in their life than I do in mine?

I was reading a blog written by neonatologist--mostly works with premature, often extremely premature babies-- and he was considering the question of where you draw the line, as far as age, in providing heroic measures for them eg. if they're born not breathing do you try to ressuciatate them, do you rush them off and put in all kinds of tubes and moniters and IVs, or do you just wrap them up and let their parents hold them, make sure they're comfortable and leave them alone. They are surviving younger now, but at the moment 24 weeks is about the limit, and then there's a good chance they may not survive and a greater one that they may come out with multiple, severe disabilities if they do. Now going with my earlier statement, if they do survive and have multiple disabilities, no their lives are not worth less, but what if they don't. This doctor was talking about a baby born at that age that he took care of. She didn't survive. In the week that she did, all kinds of painful and uncomfortable things were done to her in an effort to keep her alive, all for naught. And he asks if, given the way everything turned out it might not have been better for them to have just cleaned her up after she was born and handed her over to her family to let them enjoy each other's company for as long as they had left. He also went into issues of informed consent: the parents are usually being asked to decide how much they want done at a pretty busy, stressful time, and they've got to decide fast, even under more relaxed circumstances, a lot of people don't know the statistics on really premature babies (and we hear a lot about the miracles, which are unfortunately not the norm).

Of course the real problem is the inability to see the future. Some die anyway, some live but are severely disabled, some come out of it relatively well, but still disabled, and a few end up almost completely normal. The thing is you can't look at one and see immediately, okay this one will have to stay in the hospital for months and it'll be scary, she'll need to use a wheelchair, but really she'll have a fulfilling life, and okay this one will only live a week and we'll end up hurting him a lot more than we help him, this one will survive, but won't ever recognize you or be able to speak, etc.

Then there's the question here of the benefit to others. As I said, premature babies do a lot better now than they used to, this has even changed since I was born in the mid-seventies and probably even from the 80's. Part of this is built on babies that may not have survived. So, those particular children died and in some cases may have been miserable, but because of that, a whole slew of others will survive and even thrive. So, is the same going to be true of the little girl this doctor mentioned and others like her? Now, how's that for way off course?!?

To steer it back on course, I still find myself wondering about House's stance exactly. It seems we've had an answer a few times but not really. On one hand, there's the murder comment, on the other in this episode, Sports Medicine (the baseball player's wife), and Kids" (the diving phenom) he seems flippant about it at the same time. This time he pretty much assumes she'll want the abortion, though i do have to wonder about forcing the poor girl to decide right then--she couldn't be more than a week or so, and considering she's still dealing with the rape, and just found out about the baby, it seems she has a little time to decide and would need that time. In Sports Medicine he sort of blows off Cameron's question (would you give up a baby for someone you love? which is a whole other heavy dilemma BTW). He does say, "please don't tell me I have to decide", but whether that's more of I don't want to have this conversation right now, with the suspicsion that Cameron may have quite a lot to say and might get emotional on him-- meaning he'll have to deal with it, which he hates--, I have better things to do than debate this with you, or I really don't ever want to have to decide, I can't say. He does give Cameron a number for the amount of time that he thinks would be a fair exchange, but I get the feeling he just threw something out there flippantly.

On yet another hand, he does seem pretty upset with the way things play out in Kids but there are so many things to be upset about there, more now that we know more about his own family, that I'm not sure what it is: sadness that the kid got herself into this--with a side of boy, we men really are pigs--, sadness that she wants to be or thinks she's so grown up that she can deal with the situation by herself, jealous of her reconciliation with her parents because he's not going to get that warm scene with his own family, or what.

To spoil a little, but I hope not enough to get me into trouble, House will have a case of a pregnant woman whose chance for recovery from her illness would be better if she terminated her pregnancy, and apparently the baby isn't far enough along to be viable yet, and he seems to think that the easy decision is abort it and live, he also makes a point of referring to it as a fetus rather than a baby, but whether that would be his position regardless or just that he's balancing the mother's life higher than the baby's it's hard to tell, especially having not seen the episode in question.

Near the end of the first season there was speculation that Stacy and House might have had a child that subsequently died, or there were issues surrounding getting an abortion, I haven't heard so much of it lately, but I'm assuming maybe it came from some of the same things I've noticed (and there is a fic out there somewhere that concerns Stacy having and abortion, not telling House, having House find out second hand from someone in the clinic and his feelings on it, but I dont' remember the title or where I saw it though I beleive both on FF.net and livejournal somewhere).

I suppose it was done to make the story more dramatic, but I, too, didn't see why the girl had to decide on an abortion RIGHT NOW. I guess having her go home and think about it for a few days wouldn't have meshed with the "one day, one room" theme so well, although in real life it would be more desirable.

I think House was coming on so strong not because he objects to someone "choosing life" but because he felt her reasoning was self-deceptive. Rather than offering deep-seated religious or ethical convictions, her reasons went to the depth of bumper stickers. House suspected, and I think correctly, that her real motivation for keeping the baby was the belief that doing so would give meaning to her awful experience. House knows that meaning doesn't come so directly where one expects it.

It's good point about the abortion issue - House was the same in B&B about his patient being the mother. He attributed her need to keep her baby to Darwin and the need to providse the next generation. However he told Lola to keep the baby in Sports Medicine - because I guess the pregnancy posed no obstacle meidcally. However I guess maybe this was more moral and tied in with House's lowe self-esteem - too far to say he wished he hadn't been born? Or that life is not necesserily inherantly good and its worth subjective?