*blinks*

*sits stunned*

Wow...

(Translation: thank you, David Shore [and Co.], for taking a worn plot device and twisting it into something new... but then, given your track record, I expected nothing less! :) )

Aaarrrgh! My DVR didn't catch the ending of House tonight. I think it had something to do with American Idol running long, because the last few minutes of AI were on the "House" recording.

Please, someone come here and talk about the episode so I can find out what happened!

Joanne

I agree with cathyNH … wow. Very tense and fast paced.

This really reminds me of Sr. Arthur C. Doyle’s “The Final Problem”; Moriarty being a big clue to this. I knew during the show, from what I remember of the story, that there would be a violent end to somebody, but whoa, those effects were gross. The bullet was a nice touch.

AH, Holmes and Moriarty may have fallen off a cliff, but a cliffhanger for House and Moriarty? I WILL NOT TAKE IT!!

I loved what House did to Moriarty, interfering with the morphine intake, giving whacks at his chained to the bed ‘roommate’ with his cane (and from his own bed of course), changing Moriarty’s meds to dope the guy out. Good stuff. My dad and I were rolling.

I wonder what happens when he actually gets that ketamine…

during one scene the audio was being all choppy. I'm going to have to re watch that because wow! I think I might have missed some things. Excellent episode.

"take special k and in less then 6 doses we guarantee that you will have had lost at least your mind!"

OMG!!!! :o

Soooo much to contemplate over the summer. Sooo much about House revealed but once again 40 million questions raised in return.

I can't get the ketamine thing out of my head so I'll start with that.

Since this was all a hallucination, I'm guessing House must have read or heard about the Ketamine thing but, has anyone else. How will Cuddy and the gang interpret his request for Ketamine? From my understanding it is a very heavy duty tranquilizer. Given that they don't know what went on in his head will they view this as a death wish/suicidal mind set?

And from House's point of view what does that mean? That he's willing to trade everything for what? Pain free mobility? Or just a change, any change. That everything up until now has been based on faulty principles and any change will be better than continuing in that direction? That he's tired of living miserable and again any change will be better than continuing?

I also loved House's perceptions of those around him. Revealing some of his inner feelings about them (God no, not Cameron!!! :o ) but also how they all were an extension of himself. Chase and Wilson doing his physio seems to indicate he thinks they can be manipulated into doing thing for him, even if they aren't the right thing to do. But also, as an extension of himself that maybe he, when working on getting over the infarction, disassociates when doing physio. That he is physically there doing it but that his mind is a million miles away solving other problems.

This also opens the debate as to is that really his thoughts or just his own mind using familiar things to embody the conflicting thoughts thus using Cuddy for the champion of major change, Wilson for a more subtle push for change and real change, not just physical change, the ducklings each taking on a particular aspect of House. (I've always thought that House chose them because they had at least one strong characteristic of him that was apparent.).

And how accurate was the story of Mr. Moriarty? Since it was all a hallucination, was it really his wife? Did House remember that and have it play into the whole thing or was it just something that played in because it was something on his mind that manifested itself in the hallucination?

I'm thinking this has to do with the case in "Forever". That this is the case that was bothering him in "Who's Your Daddy" and why this became the 'theme' of the hallucination.

I also loved the reboot reference bringing us back to the 'Autopsy' episode. And I think there was more than that in this episode that refered to other cases this season.

And, my view of this is again biased by my belief that it has always been like this, House is bothered by the human element of his cases. That he does hide behind the science and logic so he doesn't have to feel. Lots of good reasons for that (ie 'Euphoria' too close emotionally = inaction)but it bothers him. This would explain alot of the voyeuristic looks at the end of cases. The standing behind pillars, watching interaction and the end result.

All around great episode and to get the news that we're getting double doses all summer!!! :o

I'm high right now so pardon the blasphemy but, FOX, I think I love you! That right kids addiction is bad, it'll make you do stupid things! ;) :lol:

And, on the off chance that anyone involved might stumble onto our humble board and read this....


THANK YOU!!! I can't say enough about this show and its indescribably, unparalleled, superiority. Writing, directing, production and acting from all as well as all those 'behind the scenes' folk that make it happen. You guys rock!

No reason? No words for how much I worship this show right now :D

I can’t say enough how much I loved that episode- just pure class. Brave too, because this was bizarre. At this risk of getting stoned for being a pretentious git- I love that it was the total philosophical trip, from empiricism to existentialism with exploding eyeballs for good measure. The idea of infusing an examination of subjective realism and parallel universe theory into a prime-time medical drama and making it that compelling – awesome. Stream of conscious/meta stuff is tough to do in any sphere and they stepped up so well here.

Some special love –

The rehab gym in his office

The robot/Cameron scene – so interesting, so much in that.

House doing the accent rip with Chase, Foreman and Cameron.

I guess there will be debate about the bounds of the hallucination- for me it started last ep with House filling his forearm with morphine to his A&E admission at the end of this- superb continuity. So much in this one to think over and I’m in awe of Shore’s genius. Will have to go and watch again now and probably a million other times this summer. Perfect place to leave us (if they have to) for a few months- I’m one incredibly happy fan.

Damn.

I mean, DAMN.

We're going to be able to analyze this all summer long.

Benj, that is a really interesting catch on the gym in the office! Hope I get to rewatch it soon *cough* so I can take in that little detail.

Interesting that the Wilson/ Cuddy "we gave you ketamine" thing echoes both Detox and Stacy's actions in "Three Stories."

Interesting also that even though the hallucinations were not caused by ketamine, the "out of body" - existential thing is very characteristic of ketamine.

Taking a moment to talk about what we're all partially afraid of with this episode, I think that the use of ketamine on 'House' will give Hugh Laurie a break from using the cane on the show and allowing him to move normally. But if FOX and David Shore are smart, they'll use that "50% chance the pain will return" And House will still use the cane.


Also, with all the hallucinations I quickly figured out--not what Tounge Guy had--but that House was either still unconscious after the shooting, or in surgery. (Yes, I do watch too much TV. Thanks for asking.)

The only thing I can't figure out is the wildly extravigant hallucination House's mind built up after he was shot. Was it some form of 'life flashing before his eyes' or his mind trying to come up with some rationality to an extremely chaotic event?

Also, don't know if everyone else gets this on FOX but 2 EPISODES BACK TO BACK ON TUESDAYS?! Am I the only one who's over the moon about that?

Wow, I sat up for a long time last night contemplating last nights episode. It blew mw away. My hubby even sat glued to the tube which was relly cool.

That was Awsome! Rtlemurs, as usual, you always have the most insightful things to say! I'm glad my post is following yours! ;) Benj, I really loved your opening paragraph. Dead on! Dead on!

Where to start... The Robot! OMG! House about split that guy in two! I was freaking! Everyone else was too! It couldn't have been 'real' because of the bullet falling out of the patients hand, and then the scene changes to them bringing him into the emergency room and asking for the ketamine. Hmmmm. Above all, the one thing that has me convinced that this whole thing was an illusion either while he was in the coma, or recovering from the coma was the fact that after he tore his stitches he woke up to find himself handcuffed to the bed. I think Cuddy, knowing that House would wake up and start his usual BS, had him cuffed before he even had a chance to start. Now, how did House know he was handcuffed? I don't know...there are so many twists, that even as I write this, I am still having changes of mind and opinion. However, I think everything we witnessed last night was House coming to terms with his life and what he would sacrafice in order to have his leg be free of pain and disability.

Too much to keep going for now! I cold mull this over and write about it all day.

If anyone associated with HOUSE or Fox should happen across our site, I would like to thank you so much for all you do to bring us such a great show.. Especially David Shore. You are a genius. My hat is off to you sir.

Well, that's it until the fall. I'm glad Fox has decided to re-run the season again this summer. I'll be watching...and waiting.

Cheers! PPD

Too right - PPD, it's a shame this end of season stuff is too late for Emmy consideration. I think they put Autopsy up (I love that too) and it must be a tough gig because so mcuh of the season has been different class.

House getting 'shot'- interesting that, according to Cameron, it ripped his jugular - the hallucination did really seem to go for that. Nice metaphor, as is so much of this- the bullet did look clean to me and adds to the surrealness.

Great thing too is that this pulls into focus so much of the last few episodes - Foreman getting shot/ the bullet discussion - random stuff like that does get caught in the sub-conscious, Wilson ramping up the 'it's in your head' theory.

And House blaming Cuddy for something which wasWilson instigated - was that House's realisation, on some level, that he rather than Cuddy was behind the Detox bet?

Faithful Wife was interesting setup too - no accident that she had a 'Stacy' look and it echoed the Honeymoon conversation, on some level, about between House and Stacy while Mark had his surgery. So mcuh subtle stuff- picking it all out is some task- I don't think you can sit back enough and think 'how did he write that??'.

Aud - on the case *splutter* :)

Interesting things, dreams and hallucinations. I think House's subconscious was digesting quite a few things in this one.

I just hope House actually remember some of this dream, because it shed light on quite a few rather unpleasant parts of his life and personality, especially the fact that he might as well be an extraterrestrial for all he relates to other human beings. I don't think he's ever admitted that he's miserable up until now either, perhaps now he'll accept the fact that no, he's not really happy with his life.

Depending on how they take the character from here, next season could be either very very good or ruin the show, we'll have to wait and see. I'm expecting the former though, given what they've done so far. The one thing that puts HOUSE head and shoulders above everything else on TV right now is that it has consistently good writing, I think they can keep it up.

I really really want to re-watch this, but alas my downloading days are over. *sigh*

Guess I'll have to wait for the rerun at the end of the summer...

I'm agree with you, Sam. I too am hoping that if House no longer has the 'gimpy leg' which has sculpted a large chunk of his character, that it doesn't tank the show. If the writers do it really carefully and as well as they have written most of the last season (and one) it should be alright.

Personally, I enjoyed seeing House strong and agressive :P It was rather sexy.


Hmmm....Handcuffs + House + a hospital bed... <_<

The similarity between Stacy and The dead Mrs Moiarty was uncanny. She even talked like Stacy. House pushed Stacy away. When his life was in turmoil and when he really needed her, she was no where around. When House tore his stitches and hit the ground, he was alone. The mystery lady had disappeared.

I liked when he was using Cameron as an example for the surgical robot. lifting her shirt to expose her belly and cutting her button off. Exploring his fantasies while still staying dominant and in control. One slip and he could have seriously cut her face. She was getting off on it too. Breathing real hard and calling his name and him talking back to her from a 'God-like position'. I had better stop...I'm turning myself on!!! :lol:

I loved it when he said to her, "I'm twice your size...get your hands off of me."


This is such a hot topic! I hope I can come back later and discuss some more!

PPD

Wow . . . The first time I watched it, I liked it. The second time I watched it, I LOVED it. At first, I was held back by the over-used plot devices. It seems like every television show has to have a shooting, and many shows have done the old is-it-real-or-not scenario. Also, the fact that "House" sometimes indulges in implausible plot points made it harder to know whether the implausibility (for example, House's bed being cane-whacking-distance from his shooter) was significant or just sloppy writing.

Thus ends the critical part of my comments. On to the gushing:

I'm with you, Benj, in loving the philosophy (of course, I teach the stuff, so that's to be expected :-). House found himself in a classic skeptical bind: How can you prove to yourself that what you are experiencing is real? The answer is: you can't, at least not without making assumptions that House would not be willing to make. (Descartes got out of his own skeptical dilemma by arguing that God exists, and that God would not allow him to be decieved about important matters. House wouldn't go there!) The fun part was watching House's keen analytical mind deal with the issue. He didn't blunder around; he came up with a reasonable plan. Since one can hallucinate anything one can experice in reality, there can be no evidence that can prove his experiences are real. Thus, House tried the opposite approach: he tried to find evidence that what he was experiencing wasn't real, by looking for things that don't make sense. Logical contradictions must be false.

What I liked most about the episode was the end, because it gave a reason for House's self analysis. I think the hallucination was House's decision process to try the ketamine. Trippy self-reflection is always fun, but having it take place in service of solving a problem makes it in character for House.

Having Cuddy and Wilson represent the part of House's psyche that really does want to get better was touching. I'm relieved to know that there is such a part. And I'm not surprised that House wants to take a swing at that part of his mind!

Lots of gore. I think this was the grossest House eposide of House to date: toungue biopsies, exploding body parts -- ugh! It's probably significant that the ickiest episode is the one that takes place inside House's own head. Clearly, that man's psyche is not a happy place to be. Swollen toungue guy was real, but the course of his disease was part of the hallucination. A representation of House's feelings about himself? The patient lost one eye and one testicle; House "lost" one leg. Whatever the team did, the patient got progressively worse, more disfigured, less human. I think House feels himself slipping: his pain is getting worse and his treatment of it more potentially dangerous. As Chase (channelling House) said about doing the lumbar puncture on the patient, the cost-benefit analysis has changed. The ketamine hadn't seemed worth the risk before, but now maybe it is.

So, will we come back next season to a post-ketamine House? And would that be a bad thing? I wouldn't mind if they did this. Ketamine won't regrow his leg muscle, so he won't be hopping up and down stairs like he did last night, and he would still need the cane to walk moderate distances. But taking away his physical pain could let the writers shift focus to his psychological issues. And, if they really want to be cruel, they could make him one of the 50% whose pain comes back . . .

tpel, big agreement on your ketamine comments...

...especially that one. I think they really do plan to be that cruel. If House gets the ketamine, and he really does get that reboot, it either isn't going to work or the relief will be short-lived.

I loved this ep. I was hoping all along that it was all in his head. Even when he started trying to figure out what was hallucination and what was real, I was thinking, "None of this is real!" Except for maybe up to when he woke up and Cameron was sitting by his bed. But even the guy who shot him being wheeled in to be his roommate - I knew that couldn't be real. Though "House" does sometimes stretch plausibility. Still. I thought they did a great job capturing the slightly surreal quality of life-like dreams. Things are sort of weird, and suddenly you're somewhere else, but you kind of just go with it and accept it as normal. Until it hits you too hard that something's off. But I didn't feel like it was a cop-out to make it all fake - it made everything that happened in it have a really cool significance, because it's all from House's subconscious. So House has got some repressed feelings of rage toward Wilson... And (somewhat) repressed feeling of attraction toward Cameron (stay far away, House! Have whatever messed up dreams you want, I guess, but. Don't show us. Or Cameron or anyone. Heh.) And I agree with Benj and Tpel, I loved all the skimming of philosophical stuff it had... empiricism, existentialism, nihilism... Cutting the dream-diseased-guy open while shouting "I want meaning!" Awesome.


I am also wondering about the ketamine thing at the end... Getting rid of the chronic pain could be really interesting... but it could easily be badly handled too. Though, even if he does lose the pain, he's still missing thigh muscles. I would think he'd still definitely need to use the cane, though he might not need to lean on it so heavily. But the Vicodin - he'd really have to deal with the addiction issue then. So, yeah, it could be cool... I'm sort of hoping they'll just drop it though, have it not work (they did make it clear that it's experimental and only has a 50% success rate). I think you're right, Auditrix. That's probably what they'll do, it's the safest best to keep House as he is.

Too floored to say much now :o

Except I loved House doing the duckling's voices. Chase's was the best, but Cameron's was funny too.

So, if this really is Moriarty, does this mean no House for like 2-3 years, while Wilson moves on, only to eventually discover House is not dead, but is back for more adventures?

I hope not . . . we'd all die from House-withdrawal . . .

Though it would be fun to see The House of the Baskervilles . . .

A Cuddy in Scarlet . . . .

The Man With the Twisted Limp . . .

I could go on all day
:D

I too am blown away. I had a great time guessing what was hallucination and what wasn't. I just have a few things. I will not doubt have more later as I read others' reactions and let things coalesce in my head but here goes. . .

First I think we learned a lot about House and his one thing. It boils down at the crux to, he knows it's precarious and he knows if it's gone he's pretty much sunk. I related to the fear a lot as receiving some kind of brain damage is one of my hugest fears for similar reasons.

I have barely dabbled at all in philosophy but on the looking for what isn't real front, I seem to recall that this is a tool to wake yourself up from a bad, highly realistic nightmare. There will always be some detail in the dream that isn't right--be it something as small as a bowl of fruit on a table that isn't there in real life. If you can recognize this, I'm told, you can realize you're only dreaming and wake yourself up.

As an aside, I can also relate to the wondering if it's a dream and trying to prove it thing. There are dreams I have over and over and I often begin to realize that I've got to be dreaming, but at the same time I'm not sure (so I lie there during the ubiquitous "naked dream" and think to myself, "I'm pretty sure I'm dreaming this, so if I just relax everything is fine because first of all I've definitely got clothes on and second I'm probably at home in my bed right now anyway. But then again, what if I really am naked ?!?")

Yes, House's dreams are pretty scary places. What's even more frightening (and yet thrilling, yay, I am like House even if I'm dumber than dirt half the time) is so are mine. I quickly pointed out when the robot gutted the "patient" that it didn't necessarily mean it wasn't a dream because my own dreams frequently take a turn for the grotesque too ( I believe I have actually hit the ground once or twice in a falling dream, or been caught by the boogie man/rapist/wild animal etc., killed someone I loved by accident, witnessed carnage in my dreams before) and it's only the absolute horror of my impending death/nuclear holocaust/whatever that finally wakes me up. And this folks is without chemical interference. When I am on medication I generally don't remember what I dream but am told that I'm very active, hard to wake up and it involves a lot of screaming (not of the good variety).

And as for the duration, it's possible from what I understand. If you think of regular dreams a lot of times days pass in your dream when they obviously haven't in the waking world, and I've read accounts of people who have had extended, detailed near death experiences only to be told later that they were only technically dead, or even unconscious for a little while.

Great discussion and all these posts contain so much to think over, fab stuff.

Some more thoughts…

-Wilson and The Punch. Interesting that House doing the lowest thing a guy can do to his friend – laying him out- has no effect. Wilson is still there, all ‘Is that all you’ve got? Bring it on!”- there is nothing House can do, anger, bitterness etc, that will push Wilson away- here’s a huge element of futility in that punch. The rage with Wilson, I think relates to House’s realisation and acknowledgement that he is screwed up, addicted and needs to sort it out. His fight with Wilson seems to reflect that inner awareness vs his pretty evolved denial defence.

-I’m sticking with my crack theory that this whole episode was a morphine-induced hallucination. Why? The whole pre-credit DDX had an element of parody – I don’t believe Tongue Man or The Shooter existed. If neither exists then there is no reason that the shooting happened as suggested. If it didn’t happen as we saw then did happen at all? The series of hallucinations varied in the degree to which they altered reality. House limped over to Wilson in the rehab scene and yet leaps up and downstairs in another place. I can’t see how we get from splashed out on the couch on a morphine high, through a shooting incident, to whenever the A&E scene happens. But I’m really open to being told I have it all wrong. I also think The Shooter is part of House’s psyche and therefore House shot himself? Literal – I don’t think so. In the arm with a needle loaded with morphine – yes. To me if you say the pre-credits stuff is real and everything is reality then House tore up Tongue Guy and will be doing his stuff from a prison cell next season. If you think there is a sliding scale in this ep between reality and hallucination where do you start? For House to have been shot then the credit sequence needs to be real time, really real, and if Shooter and Tongue don’t exist, why do the bullet and the gun? Katie Jacobs said in an interview that they intend to leave a blood stain on the carpet as a reminder to House so that should debunk my theory but I can still see that within the idea it’s all a hallucination. It’s really bugging me that I can’t remember which film, book, allegory, fairy tale… references a stain or blemish that can’t be removed no matter how hard the protagonist tries- anyone?

-The dead wife was another massively interesting point and House sitting next to her in the car. Symbolic (cause we’re all into black birds falling from the night sky by this point) that he is sitting in the passenger seat whilst she kills herself? House has demonstrated in the Pilot, Forever and his offer to John Henry in DNR that he won’t stop a patient from committing suicide, he respects their right to choose. That’s a huge jump to feeling suicidal himself, but he is self destructive. Self destruction, on some level, is borderline suicide territory. His use of the pills and then morphine makes a strong case for House being passively suicidal and the Shooter’s speech about self-worth and meaning have to play into some form of contemplation. His ‘one thing’ being medicine is not all consuming and it maybe doesn’t have enough meaning to validate his existence or balance the pain trade-off. House is dedicated when engaged in a case but that isn’t 24/7 let alone 365 days a year. The rest of the time he’s filling, tossing it off with General Hospital and yo-yo’s. Having purpose isn’t fulfilment in itself and without a context it’s meaningless, all for nothing?

-As for the ketamine- I don’t know where that will go but it’s interesting that House has given it more than a dismissive shrug. Until this point he has been fairly resolute in his belief that most alternatives to his way of dealing convey some degree of false hope. I agree with Aud and tpel that the likelihood of it dismissing his pain is small but it will be interesting to see how they reconcile it.

-Random observation- people say that the Cameron is all over the place ‘cause these writers can’t write women. I’d argue that David Shore et al are pen names for a writer who hates men- how often has House been slammed/punched in the bollocks and then Tongue Guy’s explode? Brings tears my eyes to my closed eyes just thinking about it…and all the cenes where we see guys taking a slash and people peeing their bed/someone else’s couch? What’s all that about?

And huge applause for Mari and Taru for getting the 'scripts up so damn fast, you guys rule :)

Great thoughts, Benj. I think it would be cool of the entire episode was a dream, including the shooting, but I feel doubtful about it. I think that the pre-credit sequence was real - House explaining the tongue guy to the ducklings, and the shooter walking in and shooting him.... and then he's out.

And from that point on, none of it is real, up until the very, very end when he wakes up on a gurney, bleeding and still wearing the clothes from the opening scene, and says that he wants ketamine.

So the tongue guy and the shooter are real initially, but in his dream, House takes them and embellishes, making the patient's condition deteriorate horrifically, and giving the shooter a backstory and sort of turning him into his conscience. We never find out what actually happens to Tongue Guy (probably turns out to not be nearly as serious) and Moriarty (may or may not get shot by security guard, but pretty certainly goes to jail).

It was rather gross, wasn't it? :o We all hid our faces when his eye popped out (yes, my entire family watched. Nothing like exploding testicles to create a sense of family togetherness).

I don't know if I expected the entire episode to be one big hallucination, but it did strike me as odd that we never learned Moriarty's name, or the name of Swollen Tongue Guy. That added nicely to the surreal feeling of the episode. The camera work helped too--the scenes with House sitting on the car eating were inexplicably creepy, and the House/Cameron/robot thing was incredibly well-done. I'm not a House/Cameron fan in the slightest, and it turned me on (I think it was the "God POV" thing). Frankly, I think House caressing someone with the fingers of a machine is more arousing than it would be if he caressed someone with his own fingers. It's so distant and cold and symbolic and...in-character. :unsure: OK, done.

On a completely different subject, they did kind of leave Swollen Tongue Guy hanging. My mom had an idea that House's conversation with his dead wife is going to help him diagnose him when he wakes up next season. And of course, he wouldn't have been able to do that if he hadn't had a near-death experience himself and gotten to talk to her, which could raise all sorts of fun issues for him since he doesn't believe in the afterlife. (I didn't even consider her being Mrs. Moriarty, but that's interesting too, especially in light of the car scene. *smacks forehead* I may have just completely missed the point there. Either way, it's fun.) It's also interesting that he had hallucinations both times he had near-death experiences (now and in Three Stories).

I was a little surprised at Hallucination-Cuddy (and Wilson). I wouldn't have expected them to just give the ketamine to House like that. I mean, House does things like that all the time, but...I can't really explain it. It just didn't sit well with me. I guess I'll go with everyone else on the theory that they're the part of him that wants to get better (whether he wants to or not. <_< ).

I was surprised when he asked for the ketamine at the end, too. Historically, he's been the type of person who refuses to make the type of decisions that would force him to "face" himself and maybe find out he's wrong, preferring to simply ignore the issue. I guess maybe that was the point, after his talks with Moriarty--he's finally ready to make a decision and accept responsibility if it all goes to hell?

Maybe, but I still think that getting rid of his physical pain and disability would severely take away from the character, and I don't think it's a coincidence that, in House's hallucination, he lost his touch along with his pain. So far, the theme of the show seems to be leaning toward "you can either be 'great' or you can be a normal person and get to have the things normal people have. Not both." House has great intelligence, wit, rationality, logic, and a talent for being right. Those things are part of what makes him great. But if his flaws aren't correspondingly great, he'll get less interesting really fast. It's true that he'd still have some psychological issues if his physical ailment was removed, but it's such an important symbol that I think his psychological pain just wouldn't be enough to maintain the character on its own. Of course, I guess that might be their point, and maybe that's why they left themselves an out with the 50%. I hope with everyone else that if they do this they take advantage of that--maybe even have him be responsible in some way for his pain returning because he'd rather have the pain than be normal.

*end rant*

Oh, yeah--I wonder what'll happen to Moriarty in real life. That could get interesting too.

Benj--I didn't read your post till I was done with this, but that's a really interesting thought. In response to your question, Lady Macbeth tried and tried physically and metaphorically to clean her hands of the blood she'd spilled...

I think we just have to assume that they did what Foreman suggested and it turned out fine:

And yeah, I think the wife was definitely supposed to be Mrs. Moriarty, not Mrs. Tongue-Guy. Actually, the wife didn't even exist at all, because we never find out from Moriarty, in reality, why he shot House. In his dream, House creates the explanation that it was for revenge because of a wife that commited suicide. That probably wasn't the actual motive, because the guy told House before he shot him, "I was a patient of yours," not "my wife was a patient of yours." (I guess House's subconscious forgot. -- or maybe the guy was lying. Shrug.) The wife symbolizes all the people House has hurt without a thought.

Are either of these the one you mean?

-Lady Macbeth and "Out damn'd spot."
-Hawthorne's "The Birthmark" in which a scientist is so determined to rid his wife of her birthmark that he kills her in the process.

I'm sure there are many more. Literature's full of these. I'll post more if I think of more.

Cheers guys- Lady Macbeth that was it, ‘out, out damn spot’- nice one :) .

As for the episode in context- getting rid of the pain and cane? Well the latter would seem impossible – thigh muscle is gone and going any muscle graft route stikes me as flaky. As for the pill addiction? I loved this episode in all it’s slightly left of leftfield glory but I’m thinking it will be evolution rather than evolution . I love House because he isn’t defined purely in terms of his disability/pain issues but they are central to the character in many respects. Arguably he’s been closer to the edge this season and sustaining an escalating addiction would have been some trick. Will be fascinating to see where it goes – pushing the morphine scenario was a major step and I think once they crossed that line then it isn’t possible to pull back without consequences. As for the ketamine- it’s a 50/50 but I’d say it not improving his pain would prove far more interesting, particularly if House is actually taking some kind of positive step in seeking this treatment.

Interesting/gross note on the bleeding from you-know-where. My mom does volunteer work twice a week and Thursday night she came came home and said, "You're not going to believe what happened to me today". She did not witness the exact event but apparently one of the men who volunteers in the same place, along with his wife, started spontaneously bleeding from the same general area. She got in on it when yet another volunteer who is a retired physician and had gotten called to come and take a look at "bleeding guy", as he shall henceforth be known, came to her and asked her to help track down the wife of "bleeding guy". She did so, and "bleeding guy" and his wife headed home--frankly I would have at least driven to the emergency room if not called an ambulance, but whatever. And apparently this was not just a little bit of bleeding (along the lines of using the bathroom and "Hey wait, why is there blood on my underwear") but really, really profuse to the point of totally soaking clothing. There is no news yet on what happened from there.

After saying "Wow, you sure did have an interesting day" (and it was just before she got in there was a small electrical fire in the air conditioning system, which required four people from the engineering department to come and look at it before one of them decided to grab a fire extinguisher, and then several people volunteer and otherwise, were held up for hours due to a motorcycle crash on one of the major freeways, that was along with various arguments over who was being too bossy that she got caught in the middle of), and advising her to lie down for a while because she certainly deserved it, I said, "You know that was on House the other night". Despite having seen the episode as well, she didn't remember, but I immediately thought, I've got to tell my "board mates" about this one.

interesting, Benj. My take on the ep (albeit just a little bit text-based) was that the real stuff was pre-credits and immediately pre end-credits.

Interesting, interesting, interesting.

It'll be amazing to watch this one... I can't wait. Of course I'm going to bore you with my crackpot theories before I've even watched the episode...

The tongue guy was a McGuffin, of sorts, I think: we weren't really meant to care about what happened to him in the end: House was dreaming about him because the case was fresh in his mind, and he hadn't solved it yet, which highlighted his insecurity - he wouldn't dream about not being able to solve a case that he'd solved already, and the fact that they never came up with a diagnosis that could stick (is that right?) made me think that this was a version of the Doctor Nightmare- students dream of turning up at the exam hall and being presented with a blank answer paper a hundred pages long, or of turning up and not being allowed to go in. Sports people dream of swimming in honey or baked beans, and so on. it would be of absolute horror to House to have a case that he could never solve... and to think that he was losing his mind, his intelligence, the thing he values most, that he can hold himself up by... well, that'd be pretty crappy too.

Also, using the tongue guy in this way allowed the writers to keep the dream/not a dream thing going.

I love the way that they handled the dreams in this episode... There's a fine line between having a story revolving around a dream and highlighting things that you want to illustrate in the character, without having a sort of 'and then I woke up and discovered that it was all a dream' cop-out ending, which this was not.

I agree with Narsil... they captured the dream state perfectly.
What's so satisfying about this episode- and what makes it so fun to dissect, is the way things fitted together... we don't find out if House keeps the cane (my vote... erring on the side of yes) or anything about the shooting in a reality, what-really-happened sense, but we can go back and see that House might have been thinking about what had happened to him: did that sever the carotid artery? How much blood have I lost? There's no exit wound, does that mean it lodged in the rib?
We can see that House was working around the guy who shot him- I think that he did remember the case and the wife, because he planted her into the Tongue-Guy's story and then realised his mistake... as a way of working around the fact that she gassed herself in her car... we saw House remembering that, too. Maybe that didn't happen, and he was just working around the guilt of the fact that he's made mistakes in the past... either way it works.

Maybe he hallucinated for so long so he could work around the Ketamine thing... he's a diagnostician who'd know about this stuff, which begs the question, why hadn't he tried ketamine before? He knew about it.
I would say that he had dismissed the idea because of it's risky and experimental nature... but when something drastic comes up, he needs to think about it.
He ummed and ahhed for a long time... probably only about ten minutes temporally (extrapolating), they'd need to get him downstairs, wait for emergency stuff..., but we know about that wierd thing with dreams where you think you've been dreaming for hours and it's only been minutes...
So, House might have lost consciousness immediately after being shot, or he might have held on for a while. What we do know is that he drifted off, and worked through in his mind something that would seem almost intangible- a way of getting rid of the pain.

He worked through (very rationally and in a House-like manner, too, Wilson was right) every thing that he could think about, the stuff that probably bugs him every day. The pain defines him, now. He had to change. Maybe Wilson is right, maybe he likes to be in pain. The fear that the thing that he values the most, the thing that he believes is what makes his life worth anything... could be lost. He can make people better!
He might be getting out of control taking Morphine. He can run up stairs. He's wasted his life. Who would miss that wit?



All in all, this episode is amazingly telling about the character of House. (especially the relationships with the characters - hoo) An in-depth examination: just what we needed, because we're not solving the mystery that can't really be solved, we're exploring.

It's very interesting that in the end he chose to go the Ketamine route. He doesn't like taking the pills... he may like what they do, and he may enjoy getting high, but he doesn't like the pain, and he doesn't like being dependent.

This is probably a very literal take on it, and I apologise for the dodgy formatting. (And the length of this entry).

proper sentences waste of time are

Cheers

AE

I have a question; is it actually possible for eye to pop out like it did from that patient?

Well if there's a tumor growing behind it... maybe. But it would probably take a long time, not just instantly like that.

I have, however, seen it happen to some of those flat-faced dogs like pugs and some other toy breeds, because the shape of their skulls have been bred to be deformed and the eyes sort of bug out anyway, doesn't take much to pop them, especially in older animals.

I'm not sure if it's possible b/c I ducked too far behind a pillow to see it happen.:blink:

But I think there are some people who can bug their eyes out pretty far . . . sorta like being double jointed, but with eyes.

Yech. I feel like I should go tape mine in place, just to make sure they don't go anywhere. :ph43r:

good. that would suck.

Yes it can and does happen. I won't post the articles as they are fairly gross.

Eyes Pop Out By James R. Davis
http://www.slate.com/id/2137959/?nav=tap3

My Eyeball Just Fell Out of Its Socket What should I do? By Daniel Engber
http://www.msgroup.org/TIP139.html

I don't like putting contacts in already now I'm kind of scared to. Which doesn't matter; I never wear mine anyways.

Scream. A lot. :(

i dunno but i think most would either throw up or pass out from either the shock or the pain or both.

I vote for scream a lot. Or use it as a holloween prop. ;)

*fingers twitch compulsively* Eurgh...I don't even know if I'd notice the pain in the face of...you know...my eye being out. (How did we get onto this subject? Thanks, House M.D. <_< )

*bursts out laughing* CaitDC--I love your avatar.

I asked if it was possible. Sorry about that just wanted to know. I know there's google but that's not the point.

Lily: LOL! Thanks! I like yours too! Fruits Basket is awsome!

On the eyeball thing... gross warning here...

I had a karate instructor who once referred to the texture of an eyeball as 'a peeled grape covered in honey'. Eew. It was like: ok kids, go practice your techniques now! Ahhh, martial arts instructors.

:blink: How would he know? They are an odd breed, aren't they?

ok well my eye doesn't feel like a peeled grape covered honey, but it does feel like a peeled grape in saran wrap