I guess it's fair to say that we learned alot about Wilson this episode. Like Cameron and her attraction to those who are "broken," Wilson has a weakness for women who are as House puts it, "needy." To think I tought Wilson was just a simple flirt...

On an amusing note (for me at least), the girl who played Grace used to be on General Hospital. If I didn't recogzine her name in the credits, I would of never have guessed it was her. Great makeup job...

Meh...oh, well. That was kind of my reaction. The storyline was fine and everything, but it wasn't anything different from any other episode, except this time they threw God in there--but then didn't do anything much with him. It all got resolved pretty neatly and kind of lamely, which was a little disappointing.

Maybe the writers just wanted to kind of touch on the subject and not jump in all at once--I was probably expecting something that they never intended to deliver. It just seemed like they had potential for character development for House that they didn't really use. To be honest, I was much more focused on Wilson the entire time than I was on House's spat with God.

(Wilson! I can't...there are no words for this! I'm flashing back to Acceptance, where I vaguely remember someone saying something like "She'll feel better for a few months, you'll feel like crap for years. It's not worth it, I know it isn't." I guess he does know, if he's done this before... <_< And yet I still, inexplicably, want to give him a hug. RSL's just good at that.)

Anyway, I guess I wanted this to be a more significant episode than it ended up being. Like I said, it's not that it was bad, but I kept expecting there to be an overall cleverness that never really came. (That's what they get for setting the bar so high! ;) ) Although, watching Wilson nail House at the poker game was pretty fun. It's interesting that he fooled Wilson completely a couple of times in "All In," but face-to-face he seems to have House's number.

And while we're on the subject--"God wants you to invite Dr. Wilson to your poker game." Apart from being one of the best individual lines in the episode, I wonder if House would have figured out what was going on otherwise. Is it less manipulative, or more, if the end you're going for is what the manipulatee wants anyway? Poor House.

Oh, yeah, the scene at the end with House and Wilson..."We're cool, right?" :huh: That was an odd moment.

I have found that the last several episodes since the last break have taken me at least two viewings to catch things. I don't know whether it's because it's just that subtle, I'm too thick, or I'm just looking for something more.

My first impression is similar to yours Lily but I have a feeling there is more depth in the balcony scene and some of the poker scenes that will take a second viewing to really connect. Also I'd like to follow Chase through this episode. Watch his reactions when he's not the focus of a scene, just to see if there is more there. Because, when heard the title I suspected Chase would play in this one but it didn't seem that way.

I think this is why I started reading the sides last season. I could get an idea of the dialogue and the flow of the show and so when I watched it I could concentrate on the body language and such that convey the deeper meanings.

I've stopped doing that this season so it takes me several viewings. The first to just watch and enjoy the snark and dialogue. The next time is to listen again to key scenes and watch the focus of the scene. If I'm lucky I'll watch a third time to watch what's going on in the background. People's reactions to things done and said.

Anyhow. I don't think Wilson has slept with a patient before, or should I say I don't think he's ever married a patient. I'll go with a certain amount of needing neediness, look at the job he chose. But I think getting this personally involved with a patient is a first for him That this may just be Wilson's rebound reaction and not his MO.

I didn't understand why House felt the need t oout him in front of the rest of the table other than to push him into doing something for him. I think it may have been to lay it out in the glaring light so Wilson will have no way to rationalize his way out of it. Kind of House's twisted way of helping him.

I have to give Cameron a high five this week for the 'You can't tell me we're collegues not friends then sit here and want to chat about the afterlife'

ZING!! A bit bitchy but I can see her point. She still needs to get over it though!

And I loved the end scene!! That is my absolute favorite scene since the break, if not the whole second season so far!!! To me it was just sooo House and sooo Wilson and the whole basis of their friendship. The I pissed you off, I know I pissed you off but I did it for a reason and you know that now so you'll forgive me and still be my friend. And the You could have handled that so much better and not made me feel like crap and embarassed me and that but I know it's just your way of doing things and your still the same as always. I liked you before, and nothing has changed so yeah, we're good.

The virus shrinking the tumour was interesting. I'm kind of confused that they didn't remove the tumours. As they said, they're benign but will continue to grow and cause other problems. It was like once they found tha virus they dismissed any concern over the tumours. Now that's weird, especially since they had them in a position where they may have consented to the surgery.

First of all, I thought the points between House and God was very cool.

Plus the whole idea of a kid who heals through God is healed himself by a doctor who thinks he's god.

Wilson sleeping with a dying patient bothered me a bit :huh: because it seemed kind of out of character, but I guess every once in a while people breakaway from what people think they are.

I also half expected the kid to heal House, but considering that a able-bodied House isn't as appealing or sexy, I'm glad the writers didn't go that way. (Don't like the new cane. It's too plain for House.)

Good morning.

Interesting show last night. I was glad to see an episode where there was more Wilson. We havn't see a lot of him lately. We did get to a bit more into his personal life, and we learned that he gravitates towards peolpe in dire need. (Luckey for House!) In fact, if it wasn't for his 'need' to be envolved with dependant people, his friendship with House probably wold have desolved a long time. The last scene
kinda summed it up when House asked if they were OK. (The look in his face was so pathetic.) Right there and then Wilson knew he would be saddled with House for the rest of his life. We also learned that Wilson is quick to rebound. He just split from Julie and he already moved in with another woman. Unless House's pranks and manipulations were so unbareable, he took the first chance to get out! Hmmm <_< Good confrontation scene! Wilson seldom tells House about himself, but he got pushed too far.

I was hopeing, keeping with the whole 'God' theme that House would be forced into some deep retrospect as to what part he really plays in the the universe....that sort of thing. But, it really never happened.
Everything got wrapped up neatly and we were left with the feeling that House will never accept that there may be a force greater in the universe than him, and everything has a rational explanation.

I was a bit disappointed that there was very little Cuddy in this episode. In fact, Was she even on at all? I think she was on for less than 10 seconds when she told the gang that the patients consent for treatment had been withdrawn. I enjoy watching her and House go at each other.

All in all, I was pleased! It's hard to beleive that the season is almost over! It's gonna get pretty hairy next week!

Cheers!

PPD

Well as per usual rtlemurs has beaten me to all the good points. :P Maybe I'll catch more after the second watching.


Just one thing though.

I think the outing was more of a control thing. He had those guys over for poker because they DIDN'T know him and that makes him in control of the game. Wilson knows his game and can expose his weaknesses. That's a big deal (pun intended) in poker. And we all know House would NEVER do something childish out of spite! Nope, not him.

Just a thought.

Take care,
lfeflght

‘Functional vampire’ – I love it! Wow that was awesome. I’m going to be a total hypocrite now because, after all my whining last week, it turns out Wilson was way more unprofessional than Cameron and I love him even more for it. Maybe it’s because he knows it’s wrong, or maybe it’s the smoking hot thing. He is at least as screwed up as House and the fight was fabulous. Because they both have each others number but not their own – great writing. People make the point a lot about Hugh doing a great job at selling House because the character could, in the wrong hands, be a disaster- I’d say the same with RSL and Wilson.

Faith healer kid was well done – the guy did a great job. It’s a tough gig when, as with TB doc, the patient is so obviously set up as a counterpoint to House. It started out that way but I felt House wasn’t feeling totally vindicated by the time we got to the final scenes. Also thought House asking Wilson if Grace had crashed was interesting – I think the idea that she achieved some respite from pain resonated with him. The ‘we’re okay’ was wonderful – love that House being as ‘God made him’ – made him smile.

Spot on - I loved that Wilson lying and beating him at the cards was too much. And the House/Wilson/Steve kitchen scene - domestic um.. something.


Random thought – House was knocking back the jumpstart juice again during the poker game – does that mean anything?

Wait. Steve was there?! I missed him!

This episode made me question, again, what personality type Wilson is. I've been debating with myself between 9 (The Peacemaker) and 2 (The Helper). I have copied long analyses of both type in this post. House's description of Wilson as a "functional vampire" who needs needy people seems to really point to him being a 2... and yet, there's something about him that really makes me hesitate to call him that. He doesn't seem emotional enough - he's got an easy-going manner and this dry, ironic sense of humor that just doesn't seem to fit with the typical Type 2 (think Felix from the Odd Couple, or Amanda Wingfield from The Glass Menagerie... or Cameron). Maybe this is just RSL's personality coming into the way he presents the character? RSL seems like he could definitely be a 9 himself. Anyway, Wilson doesn't seem to me to actively seek out needy people and create dependencies... Rather he seems to be simply unable to say no. to deny people...

I don't know what my point in all of this is, but. I don't know, I just find it hard to pin Wilson down. On the one hand, he seems to tolerate House better than anyone else, the only one whojust accepts him without demanding anything from him, doesn't want him to change or whatever... He appreciates House's sense of humor and House's childish antics and tastes more than anyone else - they can be childish and like Monster Trucks together, play football with little pieces of paper across a board, etc. But on the other hand, Wilson sometimes does seem very demanding of House, and often tries to get him to do something by manipulating him or doing things in a pretty clandestine way... inviting his parents to dinner, asking Cuddy to make that bet to get him off Vicodin, etc. I feel like on the whole, he's become slightly more disaproving of House in the second season - but again, there was "Detox" in the first season, which suggested that Wilson played a more active rather than simply passive role in his friendship with House... And in "Control" he called their friendship an "ethical responsibility."

I guess this episode has just made me go back to the theory I had about their relationship being about House being dependent on Wilson and Wilson being dependent on having House be dependent on him. (This would be a 2 and 5 relationship.) I didn't like that idea, and thought that a lot of their interactions don't feel that way... It often feels like simple, mutual acceptance - they both know that the other is screwed up but they don't care. They give each other space and are comfortable with each other, can let each other just relax and be themselves (5 and 9 relationship). It seems like a mix of both.

If Wilson is a 2, he's a very emotionally mature and self-aware (albeit, still screwed up) one.

In the commercials, the announcer (as usual) was all "You won't believe *this* diagnosis!" and after watching the ep, I was like, "I won't believe that a teenage boy would have sex? Pffft." ;)

Now see, Cameron's line to Foreman in this ep is how I wish she'd responded in the beginning. It was much more effective than last week's whining. Maybe eventually she and Foreman will go, "We cool?" like House did and everything will blow over.

Heh, Chase's tally was amusing; it totally sums up his recent role - just hanging back watching the ball bounce back and forth between other people. Cameron vs. Foreman, House vs. Wilson (and God) (and everyone else) . . .

Oh, and did anyone else notice that House was playing snippets of hymns on the piano? Interesting . . . . I swear I heard part of "Onward Christian Soldiers" but I'd have to rewatch.

Onward to next week. You'll have to enjoy it for me, since I won't get to watch it til prolly a week after it airs. Sigh. Stupid work.

So like, don't let Foreman die or anything, ok? I'm counting on you!

the only thing i did not like about the episode was the kid. I wanted to slap him. it's like "Fuck you" you're not special quit acting like you are I would not want someone coming up to me saying i can heal you just by my touch. and he had such a pompous attitude. He was cute as long as his mouth was shut and not trying to be a "tool" of god .God's probably some dude in a shack who has no clue if the universe exists.

I was watching this episode as part of my "I have to watch all of Season 2 before Season 3 starts!!" marathon, and had a small question pop into my head.

House was playing hymns on his piano when Wilson walked in with Grace's shrunked tumor report, specifially "What a Friend we have in Jesus". This means that he's got a hymnal, or at least a religious piano book lying around. Why? I'm pretty sure House isn't a believer (right? correct me if I'm wrong) so why does he have it? Did he believe at one point in time, and if so, what changed his mind? It also could just be that he liked the music, but that's so much less interesting ;) . Any speculations?

did he get piano lessons or do grades? maybe it was some of the stuff his teacher made him play, or a grade piece. <involuntary twitch at the mention of 'grades'... gah> or he could have jus liked it. it's nice. :]

There are so many reasons for this. He may have been a believer as a child and he could have had an experience(s) that damaged his faith in the church or god. I know I did.

When I was about nine years old, the youth minister at our church was a child molester. My sister and I were lucky, he liked boys. I don't know about the other kids at our church. This same man also burned part of our church to the ground. He set the fire in one of the offices while there was a youth ministry group in the basement. It was not noticed until it was already engulfing part of the building. It was right before Christmas. Nobody was hurt but he soon fled the state. Then the FBI called my parents right after Christmas telling them what this man was, and asking if my sister and I were molested.

Warning, now I'm going to rant.

So now, 13ish years later, I go to a Wednesday night dinner/teaching thing at this same church and I'm still wearing the clothes I wore to school. My shirt says 'Primates' (that is all it says) with a picture of several primates on the front. I sit down to eat and this lady from the other side of the room, in a voice loud enough for you to hear on the other side of a football stadium says, "I like your shirt, but I don't believe in evolution. Did you know that they took the ten commandments out of... (blah blah blah blah blah the room has stopped talking for her and she is dumping the evolution vs. creationism on me.) ... and they can only teach evolution at school, they might as well burn the books!” What on earth was I to say at that?

I still have a bible. There is a hymnal over our piano right now.

I don't want anything to do with the church.

Maybe House had something like this too.

I never had dramatic experiances with church. I don't believe in organized religion or religion at all. If you think about it; Organized religion is man-made and is their to fullfill some spirtual need of thinking that human's have a purpous in life, think we're the center of everything and/or blame the problems of the world on. maybe we have a purpose maybe we don't it doesn't matter to me but I'm not wasting my time with organized religion if I ever have that spirtual need I'll create my own.

This is just going on my gut but House has always struck me as someone who was at least exposed regularly to religion. Maybe his parents are/were religious or something. However, I don't have any concrete proof to back it up; he just "reads" to me as someone who had religious faith and then lost it or was at least exposed to religion at some point (maybe he never really believed but was dragged to church by parents during his childhood or spent time in a highly religious area e.g. like some areas in the Southern US).

There are other possible explanations for his knowing the song as well,
it may be a song that was assigned to him by a music teacher (I learned Amazing Grace even though it's not a hymn that is used in my religion or that of my teacher--same religion incidentally). The other reason is that House is good at playing by ear. He heard it and he figured out how to play it.

It all depends on how good a musician House is supposed to be. At this point it blurs with Hugh as a musician (hugely talented on multiple instruments). I've read, on another board (might have been TWOP) that House was supposed to be only so-so as evidenced by a part cut from DNR where it's aparent that JHG knows House's reputation as a performer and is not impressed (hence the admonition to not play the trumpet that he gives him). Of course given that Hugh is so talented they may have decided to work that talent into the character instead (or alternately how do you tell someone to play the piano badly? Can it be done? I wouldn't know as I play badly naturally). That seems to be the case from what we've seen.

As a side note it is not unheard of for an MD to have music as a serious avocation. Many winners of adult amateur piano competitions seem to be either MDs or attorneys.

I agree, Catlady, I've long held this belief also.
House doesn't believe in God, obviously: we know very well what he thinks of religion. But he has some knowledge of Christianity.
To me his religion (or lack thereof) seems like a rejection of a faith (or the concept of faith or belief, as he says), rather than the beliefs of someone who has been raised atheist or with faith in the non-existence of a god, or without religion at all.
He also has contempt for organised religion. I can see how someone who is atheist or agnostic can find organised religion or the concept of god ridiculous in itself, but to have a contempt, a dislike, you definitely need experience.
And I'd even hazard that he wasn't only exposed once or twice a year - you know, Christmas, Easter, etc - as you said, regularly exposed.
I can see how something like that would turn you off the church, Cakemixo, definitely. (And for the record, bigots on either side of the spectrum really annoy me, especially the loud uneducated ones).

Although conversely there is a point to be made that just as many people are turned off by a regular church life of ritual and repetition - normal church customs, not bad experiences - as are comforted by it.

As for the hymns, all those suppositions could be correct. Maybe he just appreciates the song for the music, maybe the hymn or the nature of it holds some significance for House or did once.

There was music on the stand in that scene, wasn't there?
(And I hadn't heard that about DNR. Interesting. Certainly we've seen a greater indicator of his talent this season).

Anyway, great discussion.

Cheers.

AE.

I don't know if the music he was playing from was actually written this way or if House (read: Hugh) was improvising a little, but it was a jazzy arrangement of the song rather than the original hymn. A lot of "hobbyist" piano books will include some examples of a lot of different styles, and it seems like they always have one or two hymn arrangements in them, especially the jazz books. He might never have looked at that song before in his book, but he saw it that night and circumstances being what they were... ;)

On the other hand, maybe he was exposed to it when he was young. I didn't get the impression that his dad would be too impressed with religion, but maybe his mother or her family were. I can see young House going and sitting through a service out of curiosity or boredom, but I doubt he'd have gone back too many times. That doesn't mean it didn't make an impression, though--that's something that could turn up in future seasons. If it does, it might throw House vs God into a new light. B)

I've dug up another old thread but I was really impressed with this episode when it reran tonight.

I have to say I was again impressed, actually more impressed this time than when I first saw it, with how TPTB handled the religious element. They struck a pretty nice balance. The non-believers didn't come across as being cold, cynical people, and the believers, for the most part, didn't come off as being stupid or completely unreasonable and out of touch with reality. It seems most shows go one way or the other, but everyone came out of this one looking pretty good.

On reflection I would totally do what Chase did with the scorekeeping. I am religious, but with a sense of humor: I once used this as my text scrawl on my screensaver at work: God is dead-- Nietsche Nietsche is dead-- God. Of course someone else felt the need to comment on this with their own screensaver, so . . . And Chase is right about the remission, just because you can explain how it happened didn't make it any less miraculous.

Interesting too, that while House implied, and everyone seemed to go along with it, that there was no real indication that Boyd did get herpes from sex. Teenaged boy and all that I guess, but still. Anyway the assumed mode of transmission in the episode was pretty much House assuming the worst again. A lot of the time when House does it he's right, but not always. Interestingly enough there was a case on Dr. G. Medical Examiner that ran on Friday or Saturday of last week and one woman died of systemic herpes. She apparently got it from either kissing someone or having the person who kissed her bite her a little. It was a wierd case because generally people don't die of systemic herpes unless their immune system is really compromised. It turns out this woman's was not.

And was I missing something in not seeing any confirmation that Boyd doesn't still hear his voices. House asks him and he just makes a face. It might be a wry sort of thing where he realizes he's foolish for what he believed, but I thought it was more along the lines of "why bother arguing with this guy again". Regardless of what side of the issue you're on regarding religious belief if you're realistic you realize that with many people nothing you say to them will change their mind and nothing they can say to you will change yours so you might as well talk about something else, or at least that's my experience.

I also noticed something in what Wilson says about Grace's remission that seems significant now that we know what's happened and how Wilson acted in relation to House's pain-free period. He was very worried about how Grace would react when the remission was over. Wilson seemed very concerned about how House would react to the same thing happening to him. On the other hand, House says to just let Grace go ahead and enjoy it while it lasts, which is certainly what he did in his own case.