Wow! what an episode!I'm still trying to catch my breath! I loved that the idea of the bet came from Wilson. It seemed cruel and a bit irresponsible when it was Cuddy's idea, but from Wilson, it was an act of friendship, particularly after that confrontation in the office, because he has the before and after picture of House's personality and knows how he's changed. I also got a kick out of the massage scene; I'm training to be a massage therapist and that stroke she was using on his hand feels as good as House made it look! It literally does make your eyes roll back into your head and your whole body relax! He'd really need to have massage therapy at least once a week on his leg for it to start having lasting effects. I'll volunteer! :D Probably wouldn't completely take away his need for pain meds but it might reduce it a little. It also touched on one of my concerns about going into the massage field--that people will have the wrong idea about what I actually do! :o Even my step-sister gave me a strange look when I told her what I was doing!

that scene was great...he just kept staring at her!

"Is it my birthday?"

"I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention"

That was classic

I actually thought he was hallucinating at first! And from the expression on his face, so did he, because he kept looking over at the others like, "Is anyone else seeing this?" And I loved the comment Wilson made rationalizing why House should let this gorgeous woman give him a massage--something about being jealous and married and not being able to do anything about it! That hand stroke she was doing on House is one that one of my teachers refers to as a "drooling stroke"--it feels so good it can literally make people drool!

HAHA, I DID TOO!

Everyone was giving him such an odd look!

I remember having career day in hs when I was a freshman, and a massage therapist came that day. She took my hand and I did the same thing! It made the rest of my day so pleasant.

So I can understand why it's called the drooling stroke

A drooling stroke is just a nickname one of my teachers gives to certain massage strokes that feel so good that they literally make people drool! :D The first time we did that hand stroke, I was lying on my back on the table and my jaw dropped and I almost fell asleep! It feels that good! We haven't gotten into reflexology yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a pressure point there that stimulates some sort of endorphines.

He'd really need to have massage therapy at least once a week on his leg for it to start having lasting effects. I'll volunteer!

Ambra, you just want to get him naked! Don't lie! :lol:

Man, Detox blew me away! I was in tears when he broke his fingers! Auctually, I hollered out loud and scared my dog! Dr. House went through a lot. Broken fingers, a busted lip, profuse sewating, puking....Kuddos to Hugh! He was just awsome! He really looked like he was in agony! I was proud of Dr. House in that he didn't give in to the vicodine, even when Foreman put it right under his nose. You could tell by the shakes during the autopsy on the cat. This episode revealed that Wilson was there when House's infarction occured. I also shed tears for that poor kid when they rolled him over and thee was so much blood!

I thought he was halucinating too when he was looking at the massage therapist. She was out there doing her thing, House was about to trip over his tongue and nobody else was looking. "Is it my birthday?"

No, but it's mine tomorrow! :P My hubby better take me somewhere nice for dinner! :)

Cheers! PPD

Happy early birthday pillpopdoc! :D

I confess--I wouldn't mind having him layed out naked on the table! Come on! I can't be the only one, right ladies! :D

Thank you, Jackie! :)


Yes, Ambra! :P

Hope you have a great Birthday, tomorrow, PPD! B)

Hugs,
Sanlin

ppd--I'm confused (no surprise there!) When you say "Yes, Ambra" are you saying yes, you'd like to have him layed out naked or yes I'm the only one who wants him in that situation?

I sent you a couple of ecards but I'm not sure if they'll get through so I'll take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Birthday! Hope your hubby gets home to be with you! :D

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was wondering if he was hallucinating. How did les Ducklings keep such straight faces? I doubt they were in on it.

I watched it two more times last night just to watch the others. Chase looks but he just goes about his work like beautiful women show up in Houses office and stretch out everyday.

I wonder if Wilson tipped them off just to get House thinking he was hallucinating?

That thing with the hand, I have no idea about any of that stuff but I know I used to do something similar to the guys in roto when I work in roto(very physically demanding job, especially tough on hands, wrist, arm and back). The operator was complaining one day about his hand and wrist hurting so I said give it here. I did what I do (don't know if that's exactly what is proper) and got pretty much the same reaction so I guess it works, never had it done to me. Word spread and so I got to be the resident hand massager (sp?). Kind of cool to have that kind of hold on people isn't it.

Is it kind of apply pressure with the thumbs in the palm and stroke up towards the wrist while applying gentle pressure with you're other fingers on the back of the hand in a slightly downward motion towards the knuckles? That's what I do and it seems to work!! :lol:

I'm not sure I have anything intelligent to say right now... just... *wow*.

Definite Emmy material for HL, and wonderful performances all 'round...

Interesting take on the Vicodin -- I hadn't heard the term "functioning addict" before, as I've seen posted this morning -- kinda wish they'd spent a little more time putting that concept across in the scene at the end with Wilson....

But as a victim of two different chronic pain conditions, I was *very* glad to see they didn't just label House an addict and leave it at that....

So much to ponder....

Question for the panel: I haven't -- yet -- thoroughly researched House's condition (mean to follow up a URL I found yesterday), but... I'm assuming that most/all of his pain comes from nerve damage related to the infarction. The muscle tissue itself is dead, therefore probably doesn't generate notice, but the surrounding nerves must.

Does anyone know if that level of pain could be treated with an anti-epileptic like Neurontin (generic: gabapentin)? I ask because I have nerve damage and chronic pain from two fractured ribs six years ago, and the gabapentin (plus exercise and stretching) keeps me functional.

And as a general note -- my thoughts and prayers and hugs for all of us here who live with chronic pain... it's nice to know there are people who understand... thanks for that.

Cheers,
-- Cathy

P.S. *Man*, wouldn't I have loved to be that masseuse...!!! :)

I've wondered about Neurontin myself, but either House takes it and doesn't mention it (unlikely) or it didn't work for him. Or maybe it has side effects he didn't like.

Besides the nerve damage, I think House also gets a lot of pain from the weakness of the remaining muscle and the soreness of all the other muscles that have to carry additional loads.

Auditrix, you made the call there. I feel kind of betrayed that Wilson would go behind his back like that but when you think about it he wouldn't take a bet like that from Wilson because Wilson has nothing to offer that would be enticing enough. Cuddy does.

I still feel betrayed!!!

Re: the whole medication thing. There's actually a whole article in the NYT about new med treatments for pain (chronic and otherwise) to be found here. (Registration may be required, but it's free.) Offers some interesting suggestions.

I'm thinking that he stays on the Vicodin because it's familiar, and it's something he's been on for quite some time. It may not be worth it to slowly go off it, and just have to go back on something else, when the Vicodin is doing its job.

Oh I agree. I think regardless of what route he takes I think he will still need meds so why change?

I don't know the effects of other pain meds but Vicodin will kill your liver plain and simple. As we see in the episode a liver transplant is no fun and leads to taking immune supressant drug the rest of your life so there is good reason for him to go to other meds. The qustion is why won't he?
I don't think the familiarity thing will fly too long. Right now I think it's one of his reasons but I think as things progress he may consider other alternatives.

That's why I think Wilson left him alone at the end and didn't push. I think he knew that House needed time to think it all over. That was a very intense, emotional week and a big realization for him. I think he's just going to need more time to really sort things out. Wilson needs to keep subtly pushing him so he doesn't fall back into old habits because it's easy and familiar.

We'll just have to wait and see.

I also find it amazing that through it all he never faltered in his job. He kept thinking and thinking clearly. That never wavered, he never doubted his call! Even when everyone else did.

I thought it was cool that Chase believed in him until the very end. And at that point I think Chase was thinking this is our only chance for a transplant. If House is wrong and we pass the kid is dead. I don't even know if he doubted House I just think he wanted to make sure they got the liver because even if House was right there might be a need for a liver transplant anyway and since they had one there.

Just a thought.

I am feeling quite validated by this episode :) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :P I should start a topic called "Auditrix dancing in the endzone" or something like that. In fact, I think I will!

That was amazing how even through his worst moments he was still thinking. That was probably how he got through the ordeal -- if he hadn't had that problem to focus on, what would he have done? Break his right hand?

I would've thought, though, that by now he'd have developed some strength in the other muscles that're compensating. Unless he's never bothered with *any* kind of PT, which seems foolish if he wants so badly to function as independently as possible.... :huh:


Regarding House's concern about the long-term consequences of painkillers... I doubt he cares much about transplants and such. When he's reached the point where he can no longer function -- "pay rent, cook meals, do job" -- he'll either pull the plug himself or ask Wilson to do it for him. Or call John Henry Giles to return the favor.... :(

He WILL "go gently into that good night"... because if he can't play life by HIS rules, he won't play at all.

The more toned remaining muscles makes sense, like when you lose a sense, the other ones become stronger. And I bet he did some kind of PT for a little while. Or maybe Wilson forced him or something.

Even with PT it could still cause a problem. I know that when I stopped riding horses (because my horse died) I develpoed chrondomalaysia (sp??) where the muscles ont he outsides of my legs were so much more developed then the ones on the inside that it caused horrible knee problems for me. Maybe it's something like that. He has really toned muscles, but that in itself causes the pain. Don't know...just a thought.

I was so utterly jealous of the massage scene. I thought he was hallucinating too, and since I didn't get a clear look at her face, I thought she was Cuddy! Then...just jealous. I wanted a massage, and Mom wasn't at home. It was mean. My whole family is obsessed with massages and all that, though Mom is usually the one to administer them, the hand thing was nearly making me cry because I wanted to be in his (or her, I'll admit) position.

I was really freaked when he broke his hand like that, though I understood why he did it. I am still a little wierded out that he doesn't want to stop or something, because I'm sure he could take it...like Ray's momma always said, Don't let nothin turn you into no cripple-the drugs make him one. He wouldn't be without them.

But they've been building up for the detox for a couple of weeks, ever since after the break. Foreman talking about how he's an addict in Poison, J.H. Jiles asking him about how many pills he's been taking...I didn't like seeing him like that, though AWESOME song at the end there.

And I'm still wondering what, exactly, did Wilson mean when he said "I was there." I mean, does he mean the infarction or just...around since the change? I used to think the infarction was sometime around 14-19 years old, and as a result of a sports accident, but now I'm not so sure. I figured that was why he became a doctor, and if he had been one, why didn't he diagnose it and check it himself?

**a bit more confused than she was before.**

I think it all goes back to the idea that he can deal with the physical pain it's the emotional pain he's having issues with. That's why he will keep taking the pills.

Wilson alluded to when he said "and it's all the leg?!" He knows as well as House that the real problem has only been amplified by the physical issues with his leg.

They aren't going to get to the bottom of that anytime soon so settle in and enjoy the ride. :D

As I think I mentioned here already I believe the end scene was meant for us to think House was getting a high off the Vicodin but I choose to believe that after that stressful week with probably only a few hours of sleep he was just exhausted and the Vidcodin was bringing enough relief to allow him to finally get some much needed rest.

Another thing that we haven't examined is that old saying that there is a fine line between genius and madness. I think House walks that line. He may be taking the Vicodin to get his brain to slow down enough for him to function.

Up until the infarction maybe he had sleep issues and relationship issues as well because he just couldn't get his mind to slow down enough for him to function normally. Once he started taking the Vicodin for the leg he found it helped with the head as well. This lead to the continued use, not the leg pain. He knows that alternate therapied for pain will work on the pain but not do anything to keep his brain under control.

Hmmmm. :huh:

Interesting thoughts. :)

Yes, I still believe that as severe as the pain in House's leg is (right off the scale when it comes to the notion of a personal 'pain threshold'), his mental anguish, emotional turmoil and spiritual agony is even worse. I think this is a guy who's essentially been living in some of the lower Circles of the Inferno for some time, now. I'm reminded of Marlowe's line from the character Mephistopheles in "The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus:" "This is Hell, nor are we out of it."

SnapeWho, I just watched the movie "Ray," yesterday on DVD (and I highly recommend it to everyone--great flick and speaks to the notion of someone who was a "functioning addict" for many years.) I was thinking along similar lines, when I was watching that show. But, there's some important differences. Unlike the character House, Ray Charles was a drug addict with no chronic physical pain. And instead of pain meds, he was doing heroin. But, they both have their "one thing," they're both musicians, brilliant and have lots of psychological issues, personal demons and mental anguish to wrestle.

Hugs,
Sanlin

I understand the difference, I was just saying that there ARE similarities, and it could turn into something that has more cons for House than pros, and if that should be the case and he won't stop it, it'll all be his own fault, and (as said in RAY) he WOULD be a cripple, more so than before.

I think I see where you're coming from, Snape -- House needs to watch out. I have the impression that the primary reason he's taking the Vicodin is still his physical pain, but that he really, really likes the way it also helps him ignore his emotional pain.

So in a way he's already crippling himself by medicating his emotions away instead of dealing with whatever's bothering him.

And then there's the sheer effects of the Vicodin. When Cuddy said he was up to 80 mg a day, I almost fell out of my chair. That is TWICE the "recommended" dosage. (I have the math up at my fanblog -- link below -- if you're interested.) I had always thought he was probably taking more than he should but holy smokes! That also comes out to something like 8000 of Tylenol a day -- Vicodin is a combo pill. Like rtlemurs said, they had better save a liver for House. And he's been taking more and more.

And how long is he going to be able to stay in control of his addiction? Tims time around he was able to (barely) endure the physical effects of the detox, and if he experienced cravings he was able to withstand it. But how long is he going to be able to get away with that? If he goes on a detox week next year, is he going to be able to do it?

I'm not sure I got the impression that he was going to resume taking as much as he had been.

I got the impression that he was just going to resume taking the Vicodin instead of looking into alternatives.

I think if he doesn't start dealing with the emotional issues his intake will just start to increase again.

I think Wilson has planted the seed and won't just let House go back to old habits. He'll keep finding ways to push House to deal with his demons. He's going to give House some space now so he doesn't push to hard too soon. Kind of let House get his feet back under him before the next assault. Doesn't want to kick him when he's down kind of thing.

I think they are going to try to help House later down the road but who knows if House will let them. House is a great character because he always questions the status quo. He may be wrong some of the time but he always figures it out. [QUOTE]