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 100 Greatest Britons
Csolti
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 03:54 AM


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Sir Winston Churchill
Isambard Kingdom Brunel
Diana, Princess of Wales
Charles Darwin
William Shakespeare
Sir Isaac Newton
Queen Elizabeth I
John Lennon
Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson
Oliver Cromwell
Ernest Shackleton
Captain James Cook
Robert Baden-Powell, Baron Baden-Powell
King Alfred the Great
Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington
Margaret Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher
Michael Crawford
Queen Victoria
Sir Paul McCartney
Sir Alexander Fleming
Alan Turing
Michael Faraday
Owain Glyndwr
Queen Elizabeth II
Professor Stephen Hawking
William Tyndale
Emmeline Pankhurst
William Wilberforce
David Bowie
Guy Fawkes
Leonard Cheshire, Baron Cheshire of Woodall
Eric Morecambe
David Beckham
Thomas Paine
Boudicca
Sir Steve Redgrave
Sir Thomas More
William Blake
John Harrison
King Henry VIII
Charles Dickens
Sir Frank Whittle
John Peel
John Logie Baird
Aneurin Bevan
Boy George
Sir Douglas Bader
Sir William Wallace
Sir Francis Drake
John Wesley
King Arthur
Florence Nightingale
T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia)
Sir Robert Falcon Scott
Enoch Powell
Sir Cliff Richard
Sir Alexander Graham Bell
Freddie Mercury
Dame Julie Andrews
Sir Edward Elgar
Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother
George Harrison
Sir David Attenborough
James Connolly
George Stephenson
Sir Charlie Chaplin
Tony Blair
William Caxton
Bobby Moore
Jane Austen
William Booth
King Henry V
Aleister Crowley
King Robert the Bruce
Bob Geldof
The Unknown Warrior
Robbie Williams
Edward Jenner
David Lloyd George, 1st Earl Lloyd George
Charles Babbage
Geoffrey Chaucer
King Richard III
J.K. Rowling
James Watt
Sir Richard Branson
Bono
John Lydon (Johnny Rotten)
Bernard Law Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein
Donald Campbell
King Henry II
James Clerk Maxwell
J.R.R. Tolkien
Sir Walter Raleigh
King Edward I
Sir Barnes Wallis
Richard Burton
Tony Benn
David Livingstone
Sir Tim Berners-Lee
Marie Stopes




This list annoys me for one reason really. Diana's spot on the list... Above Darwin, Shakespeare, Newton, Cook, Nelson, Wellington... She didn't do that much to be ranked above these people...

Alex has told me its cause she died and the media and all that... regardless, it pisses me off.

And Freddie is only #58!!! What is that!
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Csolti
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 04:04 AM


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T. E. Lawrence

Thomas Edward Lawrence (August 16, 1888 – May 19, 1935), also known as Lawrence of Arabia, and (apparently, among his Arab allies) Aurens or El Aurens, became famous for his role as a British liaison officer during the Arab Revolt of 1916–1918. His fame as a soldier was largely promoted by U.S. traveller and journalist Lowell Thomas's reportage of the Revolt, as well as by Lawrence's autobiographical account, Seven Pillars of Wisdom. Many Arabs consider him a folk hero for promoting their cause for freedom from both Ottoman and European rule; likewise, many Britons count him among their country's greatest war heroes.

Early years
Lawrence was born in Tremadoc, Caernarfonshire, North Wales, of mixed English and Irish ancestry, and was educated at Jesus College, Oxford. His father Thomas Chapman, from minor nobility, had escaped a tyrannical wife to live with the maid with whom he had five sons very close to each other. Lawrence graduated with First Class Honours largely as a consequence of the submission of a highly-acclaimed thesis entitled The influence of the Crusades on European Military Architecture – to the end of the 12th century.

On leaving university he commenced a postgraduate degree in mediaeval pottery, which he soon abandoned after he was offered the opportunity to become a practicing archaeologist in the Middle East. In December 1910 he sailed for Beirut, and on arrival went to Jbail (Byblos) where he studied Arabic. He then went to work on the excavations at Carchemish near to Jerablus in the northern part of Syria, where he worked under D.G. Hogarth and R. Campbell-Thompson.

In the late summer of 1911 he returned to England for a brief sojourn and, by November, he was back en route to Beirut. Prior to returning to work at Carchemish he worked briefly with William Flinders Petrie at Kafr Ammar in Egypt. At Carchemish he was to work with Leonard Woolley. He continued making trips to the Middle East as a field archaeologist until the outbreak of World War I. His extensive travels through Arabia, his excursions, often on foot, living with the Arabs, wearing their clothes, learning their culture, language and local dialects, were to prove invaluable during the conflict.

In January 1914 Woolley and Lawrence were co-opted by the British military as an archaeological smokescreen for a British military survey of the Sinai peninsula. At this time Lawrence visited Aqaba and Petra. From March to May, Lawrence worked again at Carchemish. Following the outbreak of hostilities in August 1914, on advice from S.F. Newcombe, Lawrence did not enlist immediately, but held back until October.

The Arab Revolt
Once enlisted he was posted to Cairo where he worked for British Military Intelligence. Lawrence's intimate knowledge of the Arab people made him the ideal liaison between British and Arab forces and in October 1916 he was sent into the desert to report on the Arab nationalist movements. During the war, he fought with Arab irregular troops under the command of Emir Feisal, a son of Sherif Hussein of Mecca, in extended guerrilla operations against the Ottoman Empire. Lawrence's major contribution to World War I was convincing Arab leaders to coordinate their revolt to aid British interests. He persuaded the Arabs not to drive the Ottomans out of Medina, thus forcing the Turks to tie up troops in the city garrison. The Arabs were then able to direct most of their attention to the Hejaz railway that supplied the garrison. This tied up more Ottoman troops, who were forced to protect the railroad and repair the constant damage. In 1917 Lawrence arranged a joint action with the Arab irregulars and forces under Auda Abu Tayi (until then in the employ of the Ottomans) against the strategically-located port city of Aqaba. On July 6, after a daring overland attack, Aqaba fell to Arab forces. In November he was recognised at Dara while reconnoitering the area in Arab dress and was apparently homosexually brutalised by the Turkish garrison before he was able to escape (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2003). Some 12 months later, Lawrence was involved in the capture of Damascus in the final weeks of the war.

As he did before the war, during the time he spent with the Arab irregulars, Lawrence adopted many local customs and traditions as his own, and soon became a close friend of Prince Feisal. He especially became known for wearing white Arabian garb (given to him by Prince Feisal, originally wedding robes given to Feisal as a hint) and riding on a horse in the desert. During the closing years of the war he sought to convince his superiors in the British government that Arab independence was in their interests, to mixed success.

Postwar Years
Immediately after the war Lawrence worked for the British Foreign Office, attending the Versailles Paris Peace Conference, 1919 between January and May as a member of Feisal's delegation. Through most of 1921 he served as an advisor to Winston Churchill at the Colonial Office.

Starting in 1922 he attempted to achieve anonymity, joining the Royal Air Force under the name "Ross". His cover blown, he was forced out of the RAF, changed his name to "Shaw" and in 1923 joined the Royal Tank Corps. He was unhappy there and repeatedly petitioned to rejoin the RAF, which petitions finally bore fruit in August of 1925. A fresh burst of publicity resulted in his assignment to a remote base in what is now Pakistan in mid-1927, where he remained until the beginning of 1929. He continued serving in the RAF, specializing in high-speed boats and professing happiness, leaving with considerable regret in early 1935. A few months later he died at the age of 46 in a motorcycle accident in Dorset.

A very cool guy. I am glad he showed up on the list. I plan to read some of his books after I finish Les Misérables.
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Miborovsky
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 04:32 AM


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Who is Isambard Kingdom Brunel??? Of ALL these 100 Brits, I know 99 of them, ie everyone else, but WHO THE F IS ISAMBARD KINGDOM BRUNEL??????? I can't believe I know all these dudes but don't know who the 2nd greatest brit is...

edit: ok, so he builds railways, SO WHAT? ohmy.gif blink.gif


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Csolti
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 04:35 AM


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Isambard Kingdom Brunel (April 9, 1806–September 15, 1859) was a British engineer, noted for the creation of the Great Western Railway and a series of famous steamships.

The Thames Tunnel
The son of noted engineer Sir Marc Isambard Brunel, Isambard K. Brunel was born in Portsmouth, England on April 9, 1806. His father was working there on the block-making machinery of the Portsmouth Block Mills. The young Brunel was sent to France to be educated at the College of Caen in Normandy and the Lycée Henri-Quatre in Paris. He rose to prominence when, aged 20, he was appointed as the resident engineer of the Thames Tunnel, his father's greatest achievement. The first major river tunnel ever built, Isambard spent nearly two years trying to drive the horizontal shaft from one side to the other. Two severe incidents of flooding injured the younger Brunel and ended work on the tunnel for several years, though it was eventually completed.

The Great Western Railway
In the mean time, Brunel moved on. In 1833 he was appointed engineer of the Great Western Railway, one of the wonders of Victorian Britain. Running from London to Bristol (and a few years later, to Exeter), the Great Western contained a series of impressive achievements — viaducts, stations, and tunnels — that ignited the imagination of the technically minded Britons of the age. Brunel soon became one of the most famous men in Britain on the back of this interest.

Brunel made the controversial choice of using broad gauge of 7 ft 0.25 in (2140 mm) for the line. According to many railway historians, this was an advantageous choice, not least because it permitted carriages with a width of 10 ft 6 in (3.2 m), significantly wider than those of the railway's competitors; but nonetheless it eventually had to be changed to bring it in line with standard British railway gauge of 4 ft 8.5 in (1435 mm), the last broad gauge rails being converted to standard gauge in 1892.

Brunel's "atmospheric caper"
Another of Brunel's interesting though ultimately unsuccessful technical innovations was the atmospheric railway, the extension of the GWR southward from Exeter towards Plymouth (technically the South Devon Railway (SDR), though supported by the GWR). Instead of using locomotives, the trains were moved by Cleggs and Samudas Patent system of atmospheric (vacuum) traction, the evacuation being done by stationary engines at a series of pumping stations. The section from Exeter to Newton (now Newton Abbot) was completed on this principle, and trains ran at approximately 20 miles per hour (32 km/h). 15 inch (381 mm) pipes were used on the level portions, and 22 inch (559 mm) pipes were intended for the steeper gradients. Unfortunately the technology required the use of leather flaps to seal the air pipes, the leather had to be kept supple by the use of tallow, and tallow is attractive to rats; the result was inevitable, and air-powered vacuum service lasted less than a year, from 1847 (experimental services began in September; operationally from February 1848) to September 10, 1848. The accounts of the SDR for 1848 suggest that the atmospheric traction cost 3s 1d per mile (£0.10/km), compared to 1s 4d (£0.04/km) for conventional steam power. The pumping station at Starcross, on the estuary of the River Exe, remains as a striking landmark, and a reminder of the atmospheric railway — which is also commemorated in the name of the village pub. A section of the pipe, without the leather covers, is preserved in Didcot Railway Centre.

Transatlantic shipping
Even before the Great Western Railway was opened, Brunel was moving on to his next project — transatlantic shipping. He used his prestige to convince his railway company employers to build the Great Western, at the time by far the largest steamship in the world. It first sailed in 1837. The Great Britain followed in 1843, and was the first iron-hulled, propeller-driven ship to cross the Atlantic Ocean.

Building on these successes, Brunel turned to a third ship in 1852, even larger than both of its predecessors. The Great Eastern was cutting edge technology for its time — it was the largest ship ever built until the RMS Lusitania launched in 1906 — and it soon ran over budget and over schedule in the face of a series of difficult technical problems. The ship is widely perceived as a white elephant. Though a failure at its original purpose of passenger travel, it eventually found a role as an oceanic telegraph cable-layer.

Bridges
Besides the railway and steam ships, he was also involved in the construction of several lengthy bridges, including the Royal Albert Bridge near Plymouth, and an unusual telescopic bridge in Bridgwater. He also designed the Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol, but did not live to see it constructed. His colleagues and admirers in the Institution of Civil Engineers felt the bridge would be a fitting memorial, and started to raise new funds and to amend the design. Work started in 1862, and was complete by 1864, five years after Brunel's death.

Illnesses and death of Brunel
In 1843, while performing a conjuring trick for the amusement of his children, he accidentally swallowed a half-sovereign coin which became lodged in his windpipe. A special pair of forceps failed to remove it, as did a machine to shake it loose devised by Brunel himself. Eventually, at the suggestion of Sir Marc, Isambard was strapped to a board, turned upside-down, and the coin was jerked free.

Brunel suffered a stroke in 1859, just before the Great Eastern made its first voyage to New York. He died ten days later and is buried, like his father, at Kensal Green Cemetery in London. His son, Henri Marc Brunel, also enjoyed some success as a civil engineer.
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Miborovsky
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 04:37 AM


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I still don't see why he gets 2nd place. Isaac Newton or someone should get that spot. sad.gif


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Csolti
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 04:41 AM


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Newton should at least be above Diana. angry.gif
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D-503
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 09:43 AM


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I think it's sad that Tony Blair and J.K. Rowling are ranked above Tolkien. Rowling's books are getting really old at the moment and Blair isn't winning and medals.


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the Black Prince
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 10:55 AM


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where was Dame Ellen MacArthur?


why on earth are people like Richard III on the list when people like Edward III and his son, Edward, the Black Prince aren't...

the real tBP's fame is of equal importance to that of Nelson and Wellington


i'm also fairly surprised Sir Robert Peel made it onto the list... i mean, were the new police something to be proud of?


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Csolti
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 02:30 PM


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QUOTE (Octavian @ Mar 2 2005, 09:43 AM)
I think it's sad that Tony Blair and J.K. Rowling are ranked above Tolkien. Rowling's books are getting really old at the moment and Blair isn't winning and medals.

Blair is on the top of the list of 100 Worst Britons.

* means they are also on the 100 Greatest

Tony Blair (*)
Jordan
Margaret Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher (*)
Jade Goody
Martin Bashir
Gareth Gates
Alex Ferguson
H from Steps
Geri Halliwell
The Queen (*)
Liam Gallagher
Chris Evans
Victoria Beckham
Rik Waller
Anthea Turner
Bernard Manning
Robbie Williams (*)
Peter Stringfellow
Neil and Christine Hamilton
Jim Davidson
Charlotte Church
Darren Day
Lady Victoria Hervey
HRH The Prince of Wales
Anne Robinson
Edwina Currie
Chris Moyles
Jamie Oliver
Cliff Richard (*)
Max Clifford
The 3AM Girls
Naomi Campbell
Simon Cowell
Sara Cox
Harry Potter - who appears on this list despite being a fictional character and therefore not strictly eligible for inclusion
Tara Palmer-Tomkinson
James Hewitt
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Catherine Zeta-Jones
The Earl of Wessex
Tracey Emin
Lawrence Llewelyn-Bowen
Mick Hucknall
Michael Winner
Pete Waterman
Naseem Hamed
Ainsley Harriott
Trinny and Susannah
Peter Mandelson
Ken Livingstone
Darius Danesh
Amanda Holden
Zoë Ball
Martine McCutcheon
Elton John
Ant and Dec
Alastair Campbell
Ozzy Osbourne
Stephen Byers and Jo Moore
Richard Madeley
Vinnie Jones
Alan Titchmarsh
The Countess of Wessex
Chris Tarrant
Ben Elton
Jeremy Clarkson
Jeremy Spake
Carol Vorderman
David Dickinson
Frank Skinner
Paul Burrell
Tom Jones
Sarah, Duchess of York
Carol Smillie
Liz Hurley
The Princess Royal
Guy Ritchie
Delia Smith
Johnny Vaughan
Peter Tatchell
Sting
Gordon Ramsay
Mick Jagger
Damien Hirst
Julie Burchill
Richard Branson (*)
John Prescott
Judith Chalmers
Cherie Blair
Nigella Lawson
David Beckham (*)
Will Young
Vanessa Feltz
Ann Widdecombe
Davina McCall
Chris Eubank
The Lord Irvine of Lairg
Craig David
Iain Duncan Smith
Atomic Kitten - actually a band, not a person
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Profler
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 03:17 PM


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Why did IDS make the list, he never did anything...


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the Black Prince
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 03:34 PM


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why on earth did Lord Irvine end up on the list??? he was SOOO much better at his job than the current incumbant, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, who i might add, was responsible for the millenium dome fiasco and should most definately be included


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Seek the community that was broken,
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Profler
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 03:46 PM


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QUOTE
Lord Falconer of Thoroton, who i might add, was responsible for the millenium dome fiasco


Shhh! That was Mandelson, remember wink.gif It was Tony's creator who was responsible, not his old flatmate, I would have thought you could understand that. wink.gif



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Londinium
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 05:54 PM


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QUOTE (Csolti @ Mar 2 2005, 03:54 AM)
And Freddie is only #58!!! What is that!

Well compared to the others Zach, he wasn't really a great Briton, while he was undeniably one of the best stars of music ever, and oozed charisma. Aside from his contribution to Band/Live Aid he never really did much, to deserve to be on the list. Bono has done much more and he's only #86.


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Miborovsky
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 06:08 PM


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Ahh, I only knew less than 25 people from the 100 Worst Britons List. Looks like my mind is rathe unpolluted by Anglo-Saxon propaganda.


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Gruffydd
Posted: Mar 2 2005, 06:23 PM


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QUOTE
Michael Faraday
Owain Glyndwr
Queen Elizabeth II


Ha Alex, Owain Glyndwr ranked 23. So much for some Welsh weakling aye? For all interested (yeah right)....

Owain Glyndwr is one of the key figures in Welsh heritage. He was of noble birth on both sides, being connected to all the Welsh ruling families. He had homes at Glyndyfrdwy, in the Dee Valley in north Wales and at Sycharth, near Bala, the latter being described by Iolo Goch, his family bard, as “this mansion of generosity”. He led a conventional life, studying law in London, and serving with Richard II in France and Scotland. When Richard was usurped by Henry IV, many refused to believe that he had died, probably from starvation.

There was much unrest because of the harsh rule of England, and strained relations between Owain and his neighbour Lord Grey of Ruthin, a close friend of Henry. When in 1400 Lord Grey deliberately delayed summoning Glyndwr to serve in the army in Scotland until it was too late to make an explanation, the uprising began with an attack on Ruthin and other towns in north-east Wales. After the attacks the men disappeared back into the hills. When King Henry marched from Shrewsbury at the head of a large army, not a single Welsh soldier could he find. Glyndwr was declared an outlaw and his estates were confiscated.

The skirmishes became battles over the next few years, such as the important victory at Hyddgen on Plynlimon. News of success spread through Wales, and the Welsh grasped the opportunity to serve under the great leader they has been waiting for since the days of Llewellyn Fawr and to throw off the English rule they hated so much. Welsh students at Oxford sold their books and travelled home to fight, Welsh labourers in the fields of Shropshire and Herefordshire downed tools. As far as the Welsh were concerned, if Richard was still alive then Henry was not the lawful King and his son could not be Prince of Wales – the obvious alternative was Owain Glyndwr.

After Hyddgen Henry marched into South Wales while Owain attacked castles in the borders and north. By 1402 the battle of Pilleth in Powys had been won and Owain was moving back and fore through the land. It was a brutal time in an often barbaric age, and the suffering it caused to local people and the many ruthless acts has not been completely forgotten, and a certain ambivalence still lingers in some country areas. He burnt the towns around many castles. The battle of Stalling Down lasted eighteen hours when Owain with help from his French allies and men from the Glamorgan hills inflicted a terrible defeat on Henry and his army of many thousands. The armies met in a ravine and it was said that the blood was fetlock-deep.

In 1404 he captured the key castles of Criccieth, Harlech and Aberystwyth and held the first Welsh Parliament in Machynlleth, where he was also crowned Prince of Wales. He held two other Parliaments in Harlech and one in Dolgellau over the next two years, held an important conference in Dolgellau and signed a treaty with France. This was no minor revolt brought on by a local quarrel and for a short while it looked as if the Welsh dream of independence was within their grasp. Then the tide turned, battles in the south and east were lost, and in 1408 Aberystwyth castle was the first in Britain to be attacked by big guns and was eventually starved out. The winter of 1408-9 was terrible and many communities starved or froze to death. The heart went out of the resistance movement, the French allies sailed away and in 1409 Harlech castle, which was home for Owain’s family, surrendered because of famine and sickness. His wife, daughters and grandchildren were taken prisoner and Owain himself was without a base. He faded from history, probably to live in Monnington Court with one of his daughters. Certainly folk tale in the village says that a horse was kept saddled day and night in case he needed to get away quickly. Many historians believe he returned to his hills to die.

His grave is beside no church, neither under the shadow of any ancient yew. It is in a spot safer and more sacred still. Rain does not fall on it, hail nor sleet chill no sere sod above it. It is forever green with the green of eternal spring. Sunny the light on it; close and warm and dear it lies, sheltered from all storms, from all cold or grey oblivion. Time shall not touch it; decay shall not dishonour it; for that grave is in the heart of every true Cymro. There, for ever, from generation unto generation, grey Owen's heart lies dreaming on, dreaming on, safe for ever and for ever.
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