While I was away I watched the guyver anime and also found some translated guyver datafiles on a site called neoguyver. Anyway I realized that alot of power benchmarks we took for granted are wrong. For example most people seemed to assume the gigantic was about 2x a regular guyver, I always thought it was more like 4 or 5 since it seemed to have too much destructive power for just 2x but it turns out we were all wrong a giga it really 20 x a regular unit and its smasher is 100x a regular guyvers smasher.

Anyway I took a look at the regular guyver datafiles and the actually physical strength of the guyver was never given. Weve all assumed it was 100x, for me at least this was because I misinterpreted something Murikami said when explaining the guyvers originen. He didn't say that the guyver multiplied the hosts power by 100x , he said something more along the lines that the guyvers power when combined with a human was anywhere from 10-100x what the creators were able to get out of their own armor. Nowhere in the manga or any of the df's I've seen does it actually say how strong a guyver is, so when trying to figure this out I think it's best to go off of what we know of the physical strength of the guyvers opponents.

Zerbubuse is 45x a regular human, in terms of physical strength, sho and Zerbubuse seemed to be pretty close, at some points in the anime series at least Zerbubuse even seemed to have a slight edge.

Darzerb is 60X, with the exception of when sho went into self defense mode , he had a very big power advantage on both sho and guyver 3. Of course when Sho went into self defense mode he was able to overpower Darzerb.

So by my estimates under regular conditions a human guyver is probably about 40-50x the original streingth of its host depending on how disciplined the hosts mind is, when in self defense mode its power is unhampered by any negative psychological factors and is probably about double what it would normally be.

Another guy who never gets clear benchmarks in the DF's is Aptom. He's supposed to be able to amplify the power of things he absorbs but we don't know by how much.

Zerbubuse is supposed to have beams that are 8 x the power of vamores, Aptom was able to amplify vamores beams to be as powerful as Zektolls in his #2 form. Zektoll was supposed to be the most powerful beam type which means his beams were probably at least 9x, possibly more. So for energy based attacks at least it seems Aptom can amplifiy them by 9X. This isn't nessecerly the case for all his powers though, chemical based attacks like Gasters seem to be almost the same as the were originally, Enzymes acid also seems unchanged. In the anime Aptom breifly fought Sho in a pure Gregole form, he was able to overpower sho which means he can amplify the physical power of what he absorbs by at least 3 x. This means by the most conservative estimates in his current form he's about 180x a regular human.

The benchmarks for the zoalords power isn't given either, the only thing we have to go off of here is Imakarums fight with the giga guyver, there was a part where he locked hands with it but was overpowered. He didn't get his arms ripped off like gregole, so the difference in power between the two is probably less then 3 x, but then again sho could have been holding back when they did that. My guess is that Imakrum is probably about as strong as 10 guyvers, his power is supposed to be second only to that of alkenphel, so all the other zoalords are somewhere beneath his level of streingth.

Yeah.. this has come up before.. And the italian translations of the VDF seem to support the 20x theory concerning the standard-to-giga power referance...


But you gotta admit.. changing the benchmarks and going back to redo all our datafiles would just be a fucking pain in the ass.. even for those in the lair who aren't lazy under acheivers and sloth-incarnates....

Besides.. using 100 as a base makes the math easier than 40.. >_>

I think the 20x power of a Gigantic is overall power generation not physical power most of that power is probably used for the shield and power punch and to power the unit as a whole.

The Gigantics main head beam is only 5x so i that a Gigantic is "only" in the region of 3-5x a normal guyver in terms of strength.

The Giga/Hyper-smashers are most probably 100x because of the extra Gravity Controllers and the units increased energy output.

Yeah were all too lazy to redo the DF's :lol:

I'm pretty sure in terms of brute streingth it's gotta be more then 2-3 for several reasons. One is that the gigantic was able to punch through Purgstalls sheild on brute power alone. Guyots sheild was able to defend against half a megasmasher, that's half the energy of an atomic bomb condensed into a beam. Maybe Purgstall was weaker then Guyot but his sheild was probably at least half as powerful as Guyots, if thats the case that's 1 quarter of an atomic bomb condensed into brute force punches, definatly more then 2-3x.

Also the Libertus are probably about 4-5x that of a guyver for reasons I'll go into in a moment, they aren't even zoalords, so it wouldn't make sense for a gigantic which was built to defeat Alkenphel to be weaker then them.

The reason why I would say a libertus is Probably about 4-5x a guyver is because indevidually each of them were able to defeat about 100 hyper zoanoids. A regular guyver can barely handle 5 hyper zoanoids but has no trouble defeating those sorts of numbers when it comes to regular zoanoids, now if I'm right on average a guyvers power is about 3-4x a regular zoanoid, (although it may sometimes be more or less then this depending on the type, but I'm using ramotith and gregole as an example for this, it may also be greater if the host is well disciplined or in sd mode) but that's not the only reason why a guyver can take down those sorts of numbers of regular zoanoids, a guyvers also packing alot of powerful weapons. For Libertus on the other hand aside from those beam cannons and a self destruct, the Libertus have nothing to rely on but their streingth alone, this means the power difference between a libertus and a regular hyper and the difference of a guyver and a regular zoanoid is probably greater.

Gigantic Guyver 1 was able to punch through purgys shield because it was i think intended to protect him from energy rather than physical attacks also he is very weak in melee combat acording to a translated DF i read.


I think the Gigantic Units Giga/Hyper-smashers are the weapon that was meant to allow a Guyver to defeat Alkanfel they are after all 100x a normal units and even alky would be hard pressed to hold that off in his current state(ie sir snooze-alot :lol: ) .


And finally about the libertus.......i have no idea about there capabillities so i wont say anything yet :D :D

Well according to the DF it "boosts the raw streingth of the guyver unit by 20 x" so unless someone made a blunder in translation the 20x mark should be considered cannon here. Besides like I mentioned before Imakarum was physically weaker then sho, and Sho was probably holding back when he overpowered him, Imakarums supposed to be second only to Alkenphel in power so I think that scene alone makes things pretty clear.

I think that the Giagantic has greater physical stregnth than any Zoalord bar alkanphel himself as for the translation it may well be slightly off as we all know Japanese is difficult to put into English at the best of times.

Also as i said before the Giantics main head laser is only five times more powerful than a normal units which is why i think the Unit is more likley to be in the 3-5x area rather than twenty times because the head laser would also be in the 15-20x area.

By that same logic the megasmasher and pressure cannon should also be around 5x but those two weapons are beyond even 20x, so using the gigantics energy based attacks to judge what it's capable of in terms of physical streingth doesn't work.

The Gigantics Giga/Hyper-smashers use the the gravity controllers to enhance there power which combined with the units overall increase in power results in them being far more powerful than they would be otherwise.

The Presure Cannon probably uses the combined power of all 3 controllers to produce the Giga Presure Cannon also the units Power Amps most likely contribute to its increased destructive capabilities.

Yeah.. it's impossable to simply say "well, one atribute if five times stronger, so all atributes should use the same power level" esspecially when using the WEAKEST attack the guyver has to offer. Even the sonic orbs are gennerally stronger than headlasers.. plus you can do so much more with them as well.

But yeah... the 20x thing seems accurate..

although here's a little trivia for some of you guys who don't have the vdf. The guyver isn't as strong as we have listed.. It MIGHT not even be 40 as Zektole theorises.
There are several instances where guyver struggles against a foe when grappeling (be it holding hands, a friendly hug, or simply tickling someone) but when he punches or kicks the foe, it seems so much more effective.. There's a reason for this.. You see those lumpy objects on the arms and legs near the joints? Those amplyfy the kentic energy of the guyver's blows.. Which means the guyver is similer to the juggernaut in that it's strongest in motion. These orbs help the guyver hit with (using the datafile standard for this example) 100x the power of a man, but without the musclemass of 100 humans.. Guyver's muscles are indead powerfull, as shown how it can eventually outgrapple zoaforms.. No denieing that.. but the kenetic amplifiers are what makes the guyver so effective in hand to hand combat.


Back to the discussion at hand.. There are several bits that most people don't know about the guyver.. even crazy fans like the lot of us. Hell, I've been a fan most of my life, and only recently discovered the kenetic enhancement orbs' function. There might be other details we've thought were mearly cosmetic in function, but accually serve to increase the guyver's effectiveness.. There's really no way of knowing what's right and what isn't untill we DO get a datafie translated into english.

All we can do is speculate.. and we're in luck. That's exactly what this topic is for.

So in other words.. just keep throwing theories at each other.. it's not going to affect that rpg's.. becuase we're too lazy to make big changes like this. :lol:

Those "lumpy objects"( :lol: ) are i think called momentum enhancers Bloodstorm.


The main reson that the Guyver seems weaker against some opponents is mostly down to leverage the larger hyper zoas for example are mostly 8-10 feet tall where as the Guyver is about 6 feet tall as a result the larger zoas are able to get the better of a Guyver until they can either get into a more avantagus position or compensate with more strength.


Hope that made sense ive only been up 10 minutes and trying to think on half abrain is hard :lol:

I think bloodstorms explanation of kinetic enhancers makes more sense then the size difference explanation. Malmot is a weaker zoanoid but he can still hurl a mack truck into the air, body size difference really doesn't matter much to creatures of that sort of power.

In the anime series Zerbubuse grabs sho around the neck and lifts him in the air , Sho seems to have some trouble getting his claws off him. If Sho was stronger then Zerbubuse, he woulve been able to do that easily with the streingth of both his arms against his one, so in this case Zerbubuse seemed to have a bit of an advantage. Of course in the manga he cracks open his exoskeliton with a kick so it all makes perfect sense with bloodstorms explanation.

Although technically the guyver is capable of putting out more power then what sho demonstrated there, I think one reason he was weaker here is because of his psychological inhibitions which is why he's so much stronger in SD mode, Agito was a more disciplined fighter which is probably why he was almost able to match the streingth of Guyots human form, I'm guessing human form Guyot was probably around the same level of power as Darzerb so Guyver 3 was probably around 50x since he seemed to be at a disadvantage but was able to hold his own against him.

I know for this discussion, SD means Self-Defence mode...


but whenever I see Z call it that, I always picture THIS in my mind.


Granted.. If the zoanoids are as terrified of Super Deformed's as I am, that little guy might be even more effective against them than Self-Defence mode.

When we see Zerbubuse throwing Guyver 1 around its the result of 3 things:

1) Zerbubuse is a trained figther and knows how to throw his weight around Sho on the other hand is only a kid who has most likely only had 1 or 2 major physical confrontations in his life and there for little or no fighting experience. Also Zerbubuse is holding him from the back whch makes breaking free harder combine it with Shos lack of skill and he is basically helpless.

2)When Sho first attacks Zerbubuse everything he hits him with does nothing this could have had a psycological effect on him resulting in him thinking that Zerbubuse was stronger than he really was and since the Guyver seems to depend on the host will power for at least part of its strength this may have ment that the Unit was not at full fighting strenght.

3)Zerbubuse is far larger than Guyver 1 and as a result has much more leverage this allows him to throw G1 about despite only having roughly half his strength.

IMO point three is not limited to Zerbubuse alone any Hyper-Zoanoid that is 8 feet tall and up and is at least half as strong as a Guyver could potentially throw one around like a ragdoll and even overpower one for a limited time as long as they dont try a prolonged "test of strength" type of grapple as a Guyver would eventually beat them.


The Momentum Enhancers only allow the unit to throw a punch equal to the units strenght level also when G1 cracks Zerbubuses armor he is not only using his full strenght but his weight as well. (note iam going by the 12 part series not the manga i cant get it from the local anime shop because they dont stock it :wolfy: :weep: so dont be mean and use examples from it :D)

Well Destroyer.. You've got some good points there..

However, as you stated, your going by the original anime version...

Which is gennerally considered below manga as far as cannon goes..

The NEW series (which is pretty much what the whole debate is about anyway) follows the manga alot more closely than the original.

So while your arguments ARE sound... your not using the same material as the rest of us.


(forum argument rule #7896769: When you can't beat someone with logic, pick apart thier source material.)

(forum argument rule #22298: When making up rules... choose numbers as random as possable so as to make people think your not making shit up on the fly)

Ah hell, I'm just pulling your leg. I'm not even here to make serious debate.. I just like pokeing Zektole with sticks.
<poke poke>

(pokes bloodstorm back with a bigger stick)

You don't need skill to pry someones hand off your neck which was what sho tried to do without much success.

Your point in #2 is what I've been saying, the guyvers streingth largely seems to depend on the state of mind of it's host. This isn't just with a guyver unit though, this is how things are in real life with peoples bodies. For example in a desperate situation an old woman might be able to lift a car off a kids body for a breif period of time. When in self defense mode the guyver which acts as an extension of a persons body has access to everything that person is capable of potentially doubling the power of what they would normally be capable of, hell it could be even greater then double what it is, but I'm just saying it's probably double since Sho didn't rip Darzerbs arms off which probably would have happened if it was any more then double. Sho doesn't really get his act together until book 16, it'd be interesting to see if he's able to get more physical power out of the unit now then he did back then.

Also size doesnt matter here unless it's some bigass creature like Kahns zoaform. The point I made earlier is that Malmot can throw around a mack truck even though he's fairly weak in comparison to other creatures. Guyvers and hyper zoanoids are alot stronger then Malmot, but theres only about several hunderd lb difference between a guyver and a bulkier hyper zoanoid, to a creature that can throw around a truck with ease a difference like that means nothing. That would be like me fighting someone whose only about 10 lbs heavier then I am. For example my freind mike who looks sort of like bloodstorm used to get pwned by me on a regular bases and he's alot bigger then I am :lol: