Coming in some countries, a law which say that hospitals do not need to give treatment to people who attempted suicide - but only if that attempt is obvious (someone saw him shooting himself or there was suicide note).

What is your opinion ?

If they wanna die let them die.

I asked this question to one girl who looked rather emo (in style) - Polonistic student. She said that "depends on situation".

But how would the doctor know which situation is the one to save. Actually, there is either "yes" or "no".

If they want to die, but fail at it (happens, they lose conciousness before killing himself but still wound themselves, the bullet remains in body [even in brain] but the patient can be still saved) should they be given second chance ? The problem is whatever they want it or not - they would simply cut their wrist again if they really wanted to die - BUT maybe they will see that "OMG, I almost died, what I was thinking ?!"..but then, is a doctor capable to decide if he should waste money, effort and in worst case - time in which he could be taking care of non-suicidal patient.

I will be honest, I alone have no stand for that. I am practical guy and I hate wasting effort on something that doesn't want to be saved or shouldn't be saved..but is it me who should decide whatever he really dies or not ?

Suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do. There's no strength in suicide, no redemption and no freedom. I think those who commit suicide or think of doing it are weak. People like that aren't strong enough or smart enough to deal with their problems, so they run away and kill themselves.

Society doesn't need people like that, if they can't seek help or talk to someone then fuck them. They commit suicide and run away from their problems, leaving those behind them (those who care or love them and aren't stupid enough to end their own life) incredibly sad and depressed while the person in question is off in lala-land with all the other suicidal freaks.

Hospitals should be trying to save people who WANT to live, not those who want to die. It's a waste of resources and attention that could be spent on those who need help, not God. Why give shit more time to smell? Sure, you can spray deodorant, perfume or whatever you want over it and cover up the smell. But it's still shit and sooner or later, will start smelling like shit again. (for those who don't get what I'm talking about, a suicidal person you save may have a brief change of heart, or they may just try to kill themselves again when life gets rough).

Your absolutely right, but then again - if we are going to make such a cruel world with no chances, would we just increase the number of suicides ? The world of no tolerance, of no compassion - I know you didn't said any of those, but that's for what it would be heading. And it's only one decision which would trigger more.

I don't wish for utopia as it's impossible, but I wish for a world in which suicide would never be considered an answer to the problems. Yet if there will be successful suicidal attempts, there will be more suicides. If there will be more situation of people like "I wanted to commit suicide but my eyes were opened", people will think twice before doing it themselves.

My point being, an example should be set - but truthfully, I don't believe it myself so much to make the decision, as both decisions, whatever taken, leads to consequences I think I still cannot foresaw completely.

The only suicidals needing saving are those who are depressed. The rest have a good more passionate reason to want to die.

Just let them feed the earth since they are a waste of space for being not to positive about life.

I don't know about you guys, but I find Suicides somewhat poetic. If done the right way than it can truly be something miraculous and beautiful.

This is just me, but I really find suicides as a form of art. Suffering, depression, sadness are all words used to describe that certain feeling all humans share at least once in their life times. It becomes rather beautiful if it can be displayed in a certain form to better explain it's depth. Like how artist use art to portray an emotion, I believe suicides to be a certain form to portray that of the human ability to suffer and succomb to sadness.

Like a void that sucks you up and suffocates you with it's unbearable darkness. It embraces you like a lover and it will make sure to never let you go. It becomes your source of loneliness and depression as well as your only companion. Those who have ever felt like they have ever been in this 'void', this 'darkness' will know what I'm talking about. It is both tragic and beautiful at the same time.

It is simply 'Beautiful'. An art all in itself.

I think Blue liked "The Sorrows of Young Werther". Considerably, the whole book I was waiting as he would finally shoot himself - to irony, he did it incorrectly and was dying in pain.

Blue, is it art when your family or close to you see a dead body in the room and a lot of crap around him since his muscles have restrained ? Is it art when they are questioned by police "Why he did it ?" like they were trying to learn if it was because of them ?

Or throwing yourself to lake - the police, the waterbank guard could spend weeks searching for your body and your body could emerge after it in a place some kids were carelessly playing around making him traumatized for whole life.

If you kill yourself, you live all your problems onto others - it's like Elcura said, it's most selfish thing you could do.

Trying to connect it with right topic, suicidals could be simply added to the cathegory of "stupid people". If I cut off my hand because I was drunk, then we would say that I wasn't "able to make mature decisions", the law would say that I need to be helped anyway. If I perform suicide in high level of depression which makes me mentally ill, would it be the same ?

Yes. To me it is.

To me suicide is a cowardly action.

Of you I expect nothing different, many people have laughed at me for this;
I am no Christian. My roots go far back into the ancient Nordic lands, and I do worship that pantheon. In such, I value honor, dignity, pride;
I personally am sick of life. I feel like a fool saying it over and over again every god damn day of my life. I'm only 16 years old, and I've held more corpses in my arms then most field medics and soldiers have.
But, I strive on, in this misery of an existence, no matter how painful it is. Maybe it's because of my family or my curiosity that keeps annoying me ever so painfully, but I keep myself alive.

But to throw yourself of a building because your too fat? I'm 10 lb. over limit and I get called a lot of things but a fist in the face quickly makes them think twice.

A hospital for the suicidal? Yes... the army.
Treatment? Yes... A good clean punch right in the kisser.

Please forgive my harsh words.

^ I am a little scared of you now, considering the corpse helding thing.

I think you exaggerated a little - I don't think anyone kills themselves just because they are fat - Sucidal people just try to explain why they fail at something and being fat is one of the reasons they can come up. But mostly it's more complex thing.

Someone who kills himself decides to not contribute to society, so army is not a good option. And do we really need a recruit who will take a gun and shoot himself ?

Why am I ignored?!? Human experiments!! It's the only way to go. They don't want to be helpful and 'live' for friends and family, well than they can 'die' for them.

See both sides are happy. We get human 'supplies' for experiments so people don't have to harm little animals because we have actual test subjects, and the suicidal people get to die like they wanted.

Everyone gets what they want!! It's a win-win situation!!

Human experiments are not an answer blue - we are talking about someone who tries to kill himself and should we care or not.

There is also a threaty that not allow us use of bodies if they didn't sign up for it.

And also someone who is suicidal will not say "I want to die, make experiments on me" - that is, Blue, considered as manslaughter.

My apologies if I offended you with that. I mean to say No. We shouldn't care.

Unless they are directly related to you in any way we shouldn't even bother with it. If people want to die than let them. Stop wasting time being idle and thinking about it. If they want to die, than let them die.

I don't believe in suicide but than again I don't believe in interfering with other peoples decision. I'm a christian so technically I should be against this, but I'm not. If god was nice enough not to interfere with your free will to choose and make decisions on your own, than neither will I.

I'm not going to go around and tell people how they shouldn't kill themselves, I'll just tell them it's a decision they have to make on their own. If they want to die than let them. This descussion is about Hospitals assisting in suicides, correct? Maybe this should be accepted if the patient and family member agrees. The doctor is just there to do the job, it's the family who suffers from the tragedy of loss.

I may sound cold and uncaring but I assure you that I'm not. I really do care for people it's just not my place to decide something like this for them. It's up to the individual.

The only thing I can say to suicidal people like that is 'Think about it. If after you think things through and you still want to die, than I won't stop you.'

If it was a friend or one of you guys, your version would be something like this 'Think things through very carefully. There is something worth living for, if not I'll help you find it. Don't think that you are not worth it or that no one wants you around. If you really feel that way than Know that I like you and still want you around. Think of how sad I will be here without you. Imagine my face with tears, puppy dog look, and a pout. Yes imagine it! Now doesn't that make you sad?' That was the nice version.

Mean version 'WTF are you talking about!?! HELL NO!! I will plant my foot up your sorry ass if I even detect 'depression' from you!! Don't think I won't know ASSHOLE!! DO you see my foot!! I'm going to shove my size 10 shoe up your sorry 'depressed' ass!! And I wear BOOTS!! Do you hear me!! I will kick your sorry (insert long chain of explatives) to hell and back!! So don't you even dare think about suicide as an answer, because it's wrong!! IT's C!!' or something along those lines.

Don't apologize for making a point Blue, we are discussing. If you apologize, that's equivalent to loosing - be strong, challenge me !! Make me eat dust !

Shouldn't we bother ?

Role play : Your brother/sister/close friend commited suicide but he failed - he still has a chance to recover and live. No one knows what pushed him to it - troubles, drugs or maybe someone framed him ? Whatever - because there was a suicide note and the method he took was surely that one of suicide and not of murder. The dotor sees that and say

"Sorry, we have a policy to not save people like that ?"

Was the doctor right or wrong ? :)

Eat Dust? I discuss, I don't debate. That sounds like it's more of a debate than a discussion. I'm only sharing my views. It's just to give everyone a taste of a different point of veiw. A very different point of view. I'm not looking to prove anyone wrong or to prove a point. The only point I'm trying to make is of two facts. One: I'm crazy. Two: I'm just spamming 'intellectually' so as to catch up with Kenjmg in post counts and to curb some admins dislike of my one comment/random ranting posts.

Of course wrong. Their job is to help prevent the inevitable if only for a while. They can't save lives, only prevent death. That's their job, that's their duty.

It should be that they attempt to save you unless it can't be done, or it is requested that they don't do it. They try to save you until either you say 'Stop trying to save me and let me die' or there really is no hope to save you.

Discussion often leads to debate, especially when you have two choices : Yes or No.

There is a problem with "In the moment of independance" - meaning that you can be actually accounted as someone who could not make a rational decision - that's when your drunk, sick or in shock. If someone would say "Just kill me please" on each time they are in hospital, we would have a lot of dead pregnant women right now.

Either we accept all or accept none of suicidal. The problem is if there is a situation in which a doctor needs to save two lives - let's say of an old lady or an suicidal guy. We could say that even if the doctor will save the old lady, she will live only 10 years more and if we save a suicidal guy, maybe 50 years..or maybe one day, because he might try to kill himself tomorrow and this time succeed.

The hospitals aren't that rich in both equipment, time, doctors, nurses and money to save someone who will try to kill himself tomorrow. Some even don't want to - imagine what a uproar is when you find your patient to be dead, a patient you - as a doctor - should be taking care of. Your responsible of his death because you neglected his psychological state - your license is revoked and you have scar on your mind for the rest of your life because some asshole costed you whole career.

Either we give a guy a 24/7 surveilance and best psychologist to prevent him from harming himself so he won't ruin other people life, or we simply reject that guy from letting him to the hospital. Suicidal people are people who give others their trouble which they couldn't handle by themselves.

Examples : Freaking Hamlet. I liked the book because it shows how weak minded the main hero was. In the end, the old fatso Hamlet (yes, he was fat, there is a part of it of him having some weight like most milords) didn't took leadership after his vendetta - he took the poison as he was afraid of taking responsiblity of his action - most likely they would try to execute him for king slaughter. But noooo - the guy took a easy way out of it as he didn't have any qualification of being a leader and he killed probably a king better than his father.

Lol, that was one big digression..

Anyways, the topic on suicide can be debatable, and it can depend on the situation. I mean if you see some guy you don't even know and he's about to commit suicide, would you stop him? Probably not, because you don't know him, and chances are not many would miss him. But suppose it was your best friend or your nest friend's parent or sibling, would you still stop them?

Suicide and if we should help people is a debate that IMO, is based off of view that rely more on morals than actual facts. Sure, if you saw some ordinary guy want to kill himself then you would probably say, "If he wants to die let him", but suppose it were your friend or someone you knew and liked. That's when things begin to conflict, if you were one who said, "let them die if they want to". You'd want to stick by your views, but at the same time save your buddy from an untimely demise, probably.

But my views are this: if the person's suicide is gonna effect other people, (like a mass killing spree then suicide,think Izumi from Gantz, he went on a killing spree before getting himself killed; also, Columbine shootings), then yea, they're gonna need help. Well not so much as help as putting them someplace where they can't hurt others. Otherwise, leave them alone. They would probably just ignore all that help anyway.

Do I think the suicidal need help? Definitely not. Millions of dollars are already being wasted on the morbidly obese, why help the people who will just off themselves when you look away? Not all suicidals are like that but the success rate of helping them out and keeping them from killing themselves is generally low. Too low to waste any time and money on them.

There is also one aspect of suicide I did not comment but it doesn't really is relevant to the topic :

Someone who kills himself because he is trouble for other - he is really sick and can't do anything by himself and needs to have others help him. That's one suicide is really hard to comment, as he acts to relief others from trouble. So let's not make it a thread for "is suicide is bad or wrong" but if "not helping suicidal is bad or wrong".

Sorry about that, I did kinda go off track there.

Helping suicidals isn't wrong...but it probably won't help. Funding hospitals to help them out is more of a waste of money if anything(unless the hospital was extremely helpful and saved even the most suicidal), but morally it wouldn't be considered a bad thing. It probably just won't be helpful for people who are suicidal yet haven't killed themselves just yet (adults would probably be even more difficult). Helping suicidals is great and all, but it most likely isn't going to be effective.

They should die alone in peace. Why save them? they are already lost.

Just as suicidal people are selfish for not caring about ones who love them, this people are selfish for not letting their loved ones decide what to do with their lifes.

It may be a good thing to let person think it all over the second time. If he/she attempts to do the same thing again... Farewell.

I voted yes mainly because the hospital should save everyone to their best of abilities; be the patient be a suicidal or homicidal menace.

Their responsibility and duty is to save lives without discrimination. Should they discriminate their patients because of their race, background, religion, or intentions? Though the person might have tried to commit suicide, it's the duty of the hospital to try to save others. Imagine a police only arresting a drug mafia and ignoring a pick pocket. They're all criminals ya, they should be arrested. Likewise, a person who commits suicide is also a patient in the eyes of the hospital staff and should be saved.

^ There is a difference between the guy who wants to kill HIMSELF and the one who wants to rob OTHERS. Both are sins from Christian point of view, btw.