Hi my dearest members!


To have this place for something else the Cast calls, and because I am really interested in your opinions I decided to start this discussion.

As most of you probably know there is a lot of Slash (Male/Male relationship) posted on this site, written by girls or woman who obviously never have and never will experience it.

What is the motivation?
What the inspiration and Intention?
What makes slash different from male/female stories?
Do you think there is an ethical conflict in that portrayal?
Why do you like reading slash?
Or why don't you?


Please let this prosper and become and interesting conversation :)

hug
Laila

Well, actually I don't read slash fics, just as you said before, any girl could expirience it. Thouhg I have nothing against it. I have nothing to answer at the other questions - for now, so -

I don't like slash fics, because I am romantic person and gay relationship goes far away from borders of my reading-romantic world. It is a part of material, usual world - and I have nothing against it - people could do whatever they wont if it doesn't bother other people, I think. But I don't like books - or fics be material.
It's not very logical, but it is only IMHO.

This was such a good idea Laila. Very original ^_^. I think I may have gone a little technical with some of my answers! Lol! I had fun though.

What is the motivation?
Well, it could be a variety of things! We read/write about these celebrities because we love and admire them. We use our imaginations to place them into fictional romantic situations and we basically record the fantasy through our stories. Slash might be even more appealing in some ways as it directly revolves around two of our celebrity crushes and their emotions towards each other. It's also a scenario that as far as we know is completely fictional, which makes the slash stories 'impossible dreams'. Forbidden fruit even.

On the other hand, it could simply be that we are 'excited' (for lack of a better word) by the notion of two of our loved celebrities pairing up. A physical manifestation from the depths of our 'id'.

What the inspiration and Intention?
The inspiration? Most likely just our love for the celebrities involved and the need to create a form of solid evidence of our own desires or fantasies.

The intention of writing slash could be to feel the satisfaction at creating a 'real' or physical form of our fantasies, like I said above. We also want to inspire a reaction within the reader. Perhaps we even wish to create the same feeling within the reader which we feel within ourselves.

What makes slash different from male/female stories?
Well, they are the same in that there is still a romantic bond between two characters. Obviously, it's different because they are two male characters.

I suppose the main difference is psychological. The particular situations that we write about are possibly even more unlikely than most of the male/female fiction we write about (I'm excluding all Fantasy/Science-fiction genre here!) which makes it even more exciting and interesting to read.

There is also of course a major socio-ethical difference between the two styles. There are still many who are disgusted or disagree with homosexuality. This makes a huge difference if you are one of these people. I suppose to the people who are not disturbed by such relationships would only further enjoy the fictions because of this. Whether consciously or subconsciously, it makes it more 'exciting'. Again, forbidden fruit.

Do you think there is an ethical conflict in that portrayal?
I, personally, do not have the faintest aversion to homosexuality. I have friends who are homosexual and bisexual and it has never phased me at all. We are all human beings, capable of love and affection. Whether we feel that with a male or a female should not be an issue. If you are homosexual, you love another human. That's that.

There is however a general ethical conflict. There are many people out there who disagree with homosexuality whether it be because of their upbringing or their religious beliefs. I don't feel resentment towards these people in anyway. They are entitled to their opinions just as I am entitled to mine. However, if someone makes a derogatory comment regarding homosexuality then I do become slightly, uh, argumentative.

Why do you like reading slash?
Ha, I'm not going to answer this in full because I'll just be repeating myself! So, see my answer to the first question!

- Jessity B)

Ha, this is a very interesting thread!

I've asked myself a lot of times what attracts me in reading and writing slash, but I honestly don't know. Maybe it's the fact that it revolvs around two celebrities, like Jessy said before. It's about two people you're already familiar with, and who are generally already loved among the readers. In that way it's easier, I think, to draw people in or to be drawn in by the author.

On top of that, and I'm speaking of LotR-lads-slash here, you don't have to make up a storyline on how they've met and everything, because everybody already knows, which means you only have to focus on the relationship you, as a writer, want to establish between your main characters. In that way slash-fics are different from normal boy-meets-girl fics.

Of course I have to add that it's not very hard to imagine that 'the guys' are/have been more than just friends. I know very well that most likely nothing ever happened, but they are so close, so touchy-feely that it doesn't take a lot of effort to look beyond friendship, if that makes any sense.

I enjoy writing and reading slash more than just 'normal' fics, because from what I've seen, slash-stories are usually - yes, I know exceptions! - much better written than het-fics.

The thing I can get quite frustrated about, though, is that a lot of people think that slash-fics are always just sex-stories, PWP's. Well, newsflash, they're not! It's so funny because in every slash story I've posted there was at least one person that said she doesn't like slash, but DID like the story. I guess that's just because people have this completely wrong image of slash-stories. A pity, really, because slash can be so beautiful!

I know that there are people who are embarrassed to admit they like slash, and I'm seriously surprised about that. What's wrong with liking slash? Why should you feel embarrassed for something like that?

Alright, that's all I have to say about this matter for now. Can't believe I typed such a long reply :eek:

I've often wondered the same questions! I've never really been a big fan of slash, mainly due to the fact that fan fiction is written about people who actually exist - I have the same problem with graphic sexual content in ff's actually. Although now that I'm starting to read a bit of slash as well as some sexual content, I can kind of deal with it, if it's well-written.

The first real experience I've had with slash is in Tangled Love by the lovely Mel, and because she wrote it in good taste I found myself quite liking it. I do love the idea of homosexual relationships in normal fiction, I have quite a few friends who are homosexual, and it always fascinates me that they have to go through so much pain to get their lifestyle accepted, so I guess if I look at slash from the angle of promoting fairness in sexuality, then it makes it a little more acceptable for me. The idea of it being purely for a sexual fantasy purpose still gets under my skin a little, but to each their own, I guess. :)

It's an interesting topic though, one that could easily be discussed for hours!

Jaime

P.S I mean no offence at all to those writers who do write slash - I understand that it can be a very challenging idea, so hats off to you all! :)

I don't have much to say, cause I've never written or read slash. Its not that I have anything against homosexuals or the authors or anything. I think for me its just because the way guys act.. ie. "YAAAH! LESBIANS!!! F**KING HOT!" makes me a bit annoyed, to say the least. If that makes any sense of why I don't read it..

But mostly I guess I just don't find it attractive. I'd much rather imagine them kissing a girl that I can pretend is me then eachother. :tsk: :blush:

Okay… I want to leave my 50 cents here LOL!

Well, for me and in my opinion are several motivations for me and for some other people to read the rare but amazing Slash fictions, as well as the NC-17 ones which I'd put in the Erotic Literature Genre, due to the fact that most part of them are full of sexual references but with literary content. With that I mean that are not what we'd call in the normal language 'pornographic literature' do ya know what I mean? LOL!! Okay I'm rambling… as I was saying this kind of Erotic literature has diverse reasons to attract people:

a. Maybe interest for something new and weird. Whe you live in a forum full of young people, you can find anything from the usual and sometimes annoying Mary Sue, to the interesting and amazing suspense… Of course in a place like this forum for example the genres vary depending on the age of the one's who visit and write on the forum. Sometimes you get bored of the story with just vague and soft sexual references and you feel that sensation of missing something you see on the big screen, watch in your TV and even sense in the songs on the radio station: SEX. And probably that is the main reason, we all (and I'm pretty sure of it) have had sexual fantasies, it doesn't matter if it is with your boyfriend, your neighbour or Viggo Mortensen, you've had those ideas, and those ideas maybe bring interest for you to know more about it or why not be more creative in your sexual life… It could be one reason.

b. Feel curious about such genres. When you see a title with the PG rating next to another title with NC-17/ Slash title, sometimes the second idea could be more attractive that the first just because the PG tells you that the plot or some things could be predictable from a certain point, and the NC17 and Slash tells you there could be more action, surprises and different stuff.

c. Interest for writing those genres, so you make a research. You see the title everywhere, and you know what it is about, but you want to do it too, so you start reading the most talented writers in those genres, and you get the interest and why not addiction to those ones. It's just a matter of taste.

Personally I like the Slash and NC-17 fictions because they allow your mind to be more free and creative in some aspects, things that you can't do in the PG ones because you can hurt susceptibilities, if someone does not like it he or she can just click away when he or she sees that it has content not always proper for certain ages or people. Of course some fics are better than others and what i always look for is good descriptions, reality, a little bit of fantasy too, proper and cult language while describing the scenes proper of the genres and a good plot. You can have 50 sheets of sex and homosexuality (or lesbians depending) but if you don't have a good plot it cannot be considered, in my opinion, a Slash or a NC.17 fic, it could be a porn fic, but that's another stage…

Okay… Done, I've said what I've said, it is my opinion… LOL! Wait for comments…

I coulnd't keep myself from responding to this, but first this:

:lmao: I'm sorry but that sounded just too funny.

I believe I said this in my previous post as well, but it kinda struck me that people put Slash and NC17 so easily in the same category.

Hm, I don't agree. In fact I think it's quite the opposite. When I see a story with the rating NC17 I more tend to think there will be less plot and more sex, while PG stories just *have* to have plot, since there apparently isn't going to be any sex in it. Other than that, there are loads of PG13-rated slash stories *cough Be Your Guide cough*, so I don't really understand why you make a difference between PG13 and Slash/NC17 fics. I don't mean this as criticism or whatever at all, I just love having endless conversations about this matter, teehee :shine:

Gee, this must be one of my fav threads here ^^
:bye:

Hmm...

I have so much to say, but well - not so much time right now so I will talk about the rest some other time but I wantd to say something about ratings.

I have to say I also prefer R-rated or NC-17 rated fiction, probably because pg or pg-13 ofen tends to be really, well teeny, to put it short. I know this is not fair against most of it, especially you Aurora, because your stuff is brilliant! (Lol though I would give Be your guide an R-rating ;))
But anyway, I just think, next nudety swearing and maybe also violence belong to human life and I don't really like to block out when it comes to it - when two ppl fall in love - no matter if slash or het, I think it is just natural that it ends up in bed and I think that a good done bedscene can so establish and develpoe character and relationship - it's not just porn mostly...

*shrugs*

Yes, that's true, but I still think that it can ruin a story to put a very graphic steamy sex-scene in it. But that's just my personal taste and a different story altogether ^_^

And do you really think BYG is rated R?? :huh:

LOL!!

Never thought that would crack ya up Auri! LOL!! I'm glad.. I laugh too :laugh1:

And I agree with Laila.. I feel more interested in R and NC.17 by the same reasons ;)

Well, it doesn't matter if it's slash or regular m/f writings, a story is a story and a work of art. The writer still had to put their soul into creating it.

I love yaoi(anime slash), but I don't like it when it's far too descriptive, or when they have sex every other minute. I'm not saying you shouldn't write descriptive sex scenes(m/f|m/m)just that you should have a proper warning in the beggining of the chapter. People tend to believe a slash fic just contains hardcore XXX sex and all the heavy stuff, but there is not a big difference between the m/m and m/f fictions, besides the fact that two males are having a relationship. A good slash story has a good plot, just like any other fics.

I believe that the reason to why people think slash/yaoi is a bit...disturbing is that two males, who are most likely not gay, are forced into having a relationship, with a sex they're not attracted to, and even though it is just fiction, people are still offended by it.

I think yaoi is cute, specially when the story contains my favorite anime chara's, but I haven't read "real" slash. I guess I'm not interested. ^__^

<333 Kawaii

:yes:

(what do you mean, I'm starting to get repetitive?)

^_^

As soon as you mention "slash", people get these weird images in their heads, they think slash is gay porn.

I agree with her.. but I made clear that point in my part when I said it is just erotic literature LOL!

Hey does anyone know why it is called slash?!

I mean a slash is ths: \ right?

*shrugs*

Yeah I've been wondering the same. Some people say it's because of the slash-sign (or however you call it) in pairings, like Heath/Orlando (my current obsession, lol). But if it's true...

Hmm...
But you'd do that for het-fics as well?

Like Viggo/OC ... hehe or Viggo/Laila :yum:

heeh!!

Didn't know about the name.. adds to her dictionary...

yup.. Like my new slasH!!

Dom/Billy.. so check it LOL!

Yeh, that's why I personally think that explanation doesn't make much sense ^_^

ETA: I know it's got nothing to do with slash, but I was wondering something. Quite frequently I come across those descriptions of fics, and among 'het' and 'slash' I also see 'gen'... but what's gen? I've asked a lot of people but no one seems to know it, heheh.

gen?

Huh? no idea.. should look for it... But as for HEt... what does that mean?

*feels confused*

Het = heterosexual ^_^

Will I ever find out the true meaning of the word 'gen'? Is there a chance that I will ever get over my slash-obsession? Stay tuned!

What is the motivation?
You've stumped me with that one. Maybe it just occurs when people are trying to be out of the norm, to try something new.

What the inspiration and Intention?
This may be a partial repeat of the question before. The intention is generally to entertain. I mean, I'm sure you all say you write for fun, but how many of you would write a fan fic and post it on a board where you're the only member? I'm willing to bet none. I guess you write it because you want people to say, "Hmm... slash? What's that? Let's read it." You want readers!

What makes slash different from male/female stories?
Well, the obvious, of course. Slash is generally a same sex story, no? And I supposed it may be a little less predictable. I mean, with most guy/girl fics, you know who the main character will eventually end up with.

Do you think there is an ethical conflict in that portrayal?
Probably. I mean, I’m sure there are several of those Christians that are totally anti-anything-homosexual. Not to be anti-Christian, of course. I’m one myself!

Why do you like reading slash?
I don't. So you can just look just to the south and read why!

Or why don't you?
Well, I’m not much of a slashie. In fact, I’m not a slashie at all. As I said before, slash may be slightly less predicable, but if you read good stories with good authors, you should have to worry about things that aren’t predictable.

It’s not like I have anything against gay people, but I’m not going to say that I completely support them. Kind of like I won’t diss your slash fics, but I won’t read them either.

Sounds stupid but Gen seems to have something to be with Genre? Genetics? okay...

I'm just RAMBLING... heya laila and Auri... just added ya to my LJ ;)

Hey gals...

I found a site that explains the name "slas" a bit...


http://www.loverboys-blue.com/whatyaoi.html

hmmm...

yes, it gave me a better understanding of the meaning.

but i still don't know where the name originated from!

Why, hello everyone! Dunno how much I'll be able to add to this discussion, but it certainly is a topic that's very important to me.

What is the motivation?
To write slash? Because you want to. I'm serious. Really, what's the reason we write fanfiction at all? It's because we feel like putting characters or people in a certain situation catered to our own tastes. If your tastes are for male/female, then that's what you'll be motivated to write. If your tastes are for male/male then that's what you'll want to read, and write, and so forth.

Now, by saying this I'm not saying that you have to be gay to read slash or vice versa. I'm simply saying that what motivates people to read or write a certain pairing is determined by what kind of relationship they prefer writing/reading about.

What is the inspiration and Intention?
The inspiration, at least for RPS, is the actors. As someone before me said, it is pretty easy to look at the close friendship between the lads and interpret it as something more.

The intention is, like I said in my first answer, to please, or to satisfy a want. That want is to see - or at least read about - certain characters in a romantic relationship.

What makes slash different from male/female stories?
Nothing but the gender of the romantic interest, and I'm absolutely serious about that. Someone could write a fanfiction with Elijah/OFC and then just change the first name of the OFC to something masculine and the gender-specific pronouns used and it would be Elijah/OMC.

However, there are some other differences that often depend on the story. I find it true that there are more well-written slash fics around, as opposed to badly-written slash fics, than there are well-written het fics, as opposed to badly-written het fics. If that makes sense. <_<

(Also, slash-sex tends to be less realistic than het-sex. I speak from authority. :lalala: )

Do you think there is an ethical conflict in that portrayal?
Only as much as there is in a het fic. As long as someone doesn't have any moral objections to homosexuality then the only ethics involved are those that determine whether or not it's right to portray a real or copyrighted person in a work of fiction that's not condained by said person's corporation.

Why do you like reading slash?
I don't know. I actually haven't been reading too much fanfiction lately, but I know I have in the past. I think it's just fulfilling some strange dream of mine to see popular celebrities in homosexual relationships.

So, that's that. Bai! :bye:

Hey Logan!

Since we have an expert here...
I would like to ask you something that occupied my mind a lot lately...

Is it actually offending to real gay ppl when het (or possibly bi) ppl write that stuff for their pleasure...
I mean I can only say that it always has this kinda offending tough to it when het men get off on two girls making out... I dunno why but in some way it is...
so sometimes I feel like a bloody perv and offender for linking slash...

what's your opinion on that? :)


love
Laila

There was this period of time when almost all the fictions I read were real person slash, mainly PWPs though. I don't like reading character fictions, slash or het, just so you know... Unless it's PWPs :P Then I got over that phrase after Laila's 'China' series ended, but I'm still reading some of the better ones IMO ('Be Your Guide' by Aurora).

I don't particularly like slash, though I don't love it neither, if you get my drift. I'm back to het fictions now... Erm, I guess I don't have much to contribute to this!

Yeah I agree Peiyu...
Though I don't hope I have driven you away from it... :huh:

But I am not so into it at the moment either... though it would never appall me...
I am just too much in the masculine Viggo right now to consider any gayness in him ;) *siiigh*

I have to say that I don't like too strong female characters... well that is the wrong expression, rather too outgoing felae characters, probably because I have problems with many of these girls in real life and can't identify, and I admit I do like looking up to men in a kinda old fashioned role understanding.
So I do prefer slash there sometimes because it often has clear roles, what I do like in a way *shrugs*

do i have a point?!

You named my fic. I love you. :D

Anywho, I got this Heath/Orlando-community and someone posted REALLY cool stories and in one reply I went like 'Girl, that rocked!' or something alike, but it appeared I was talking to a married guy!! I was like :blink: . I'm still wondering whether he's bisexual or not hahah. Seriously, I've *never* met a guy who wrote slash, especially not one that's married to a woman, so I thought it was really cool.

Totally uninteresting message here, sorry for that *cackles*

What is the motivation?

For me, the motivation is just pictures of the guys together, I can totally picture them as a couple. Also, I have many homosexual friends, and I love them so much, I think they are the best people in the world. I love their sensitive nature and understanding (well, in my friends case) and thats what I myself look for in a man I guess...

What the inspiration and Intention?

I guess the intention is to just have fun writing it. I mean, it is a pretty cool fantasy ;)

What makes slash different from male/female stories?

I dont think they are different at all. m/m pairings are as loving with each other as m/f and they are both in a normal relationship, so are there really any differences?

Do you think there is an ethical conflict in that portrayal?

There shouldn't be. I don't really see a problem with slash at all, but if I do happen to offend a homosexual person with my writing, then I will apologise to them, but then again, do we get offended by het fics?

Why do you like reading slash?
I guess its just artistic expression through literature, or as Adri put it "erotic literature." It is enjoyable to read because the writer is crossing boundries and making a fantasy come to life.

Actually there're hardly any guys who write fanfictions, and less so for male celebrities. But I guess it'd be quite interesting seeing fictions (het or slash) written from a male's point of view; makes reading more interesting!

In response to Laila's earlier question: No, I don't get offended. Remember - I pretended to be straight for the first 16 years of my life. I had to pretend to think that two girls making out, etc. with each other was really hot. I understand that guys find that attractive, and I can understand that women find the image of two guys going at pretty sexy too.

I'm inclined to agree with the latter opinion. :tsk:

As for male fanfiction writers: it's true, they're very uncommon. I've tried my hand at writing fanfiction... I dunno, it's just not something I'm very good at. Also, I can't write slash. Don't know why. The only successful pieces I've completed have been het. :P I mean, I can write slash PWP, but... hm. It's hard to explain.

Guh Logan how can you say that?!

You wrote the goddamn most hilarious piece of fiction I ever read!
I have written one piece of slash and it was really cool to write... but now it seems I can't do it anymore or at the moment...
I have no idea why... and then again I can't really write in general lately... *sigh*

This will probably be unpopular, but since ther're so many writers here, I have to ask - why write it in the first place? Not just slash, but fanfic about the actual people?

If it's a character, hey, no big deal. My only problem with that 90% of what I've read has been absolute crap with no concept of plot, grammar, or spelling. (I haven't gotten to any of the stories here, so don't anybody take that personally.)

My best friend is the mother of a famous musician, and I happen to be a HUGE fan of her son. I don't know him well at all, but we've run into each other a few times and he's an absolute doll, so when I run across a fanfic about his VERY personal life I get pretty pissed off. Plus, I know that he goes and looks at all the stuff people are saying about him whether it's labeled fiction or not. He usually gets pretty freaked out. Wouldn't you?

Sorry to get preachy. I can understand fantasizing about the guys. I won't try to deny that I have, too. I just think it's REALLY inconsiderate to put up a piece about a real live person whom you've never met, especially if it's about sex or (absolutely NO patience with this one) violence. I mean, why not just change the name or something? Like instead of Elijah/Dominic make it Eli and Donovan or something. You audience would know who you menat, so they'd get to share the fantasy. You could even say upfront "this is about Elijah and Dom," and still give a nod of respect to their privacy.

Wow I really didn't mean to go on so long. Sorry to anyone whose toes were stepped on. Just had to throw in my 2 bits. For the record I don't think that slash is any worse than the rest. Maybe better, since most everyone knows it's a total fantasy.

- Storm

Hi Storm!

Please don't worry about pissing anybody off, really, you are just saying the truth!
I can only tell you how it is in my own case, though I know from various discussions that it's not only me who feels that way.

Of course you are right, it must be more then freaky and strange for the actual people to read that stuff - and also with the point that much of it has not really any concept of quality.
The thing is, no one really sees this as more then pure fantasy and not necessarily really about the the actually persons "it is about", but general fictional ideas that one likes to delve into.

If you ask me personally, it is a kind of training now - for real writing one day. Of course that was different when I was younger - starting fanfiction I was about 16 and didn't really think about that stuff. Then one day I wrote a quite tough story and from one day to the other I couldn't do it anymore. It just suddenly came to my mind that I couldn't do that - that you can't write such stuff using names that really exist and throwing their details into it too.

The nice thing about fanfiction in general is that you pretty quickly have an audience - which helps you develope your talents, and I know as a non native speaker that my english improved about 300% since I started (Of course that has other reasons as well), and as did my perception of style and plot.

Nowadays I only write "fanfiction", that does nothing but using the names - giving them maybe a different jobs, environments etc. So that as you said I really could easily exchange their names with others.

But I think it could also be seen in a different way - what is a greater compliment if these celebrities inspire people to be creative and develope their skills in this world of greed, violence and the drugged up youth?
Maybe it's a good thing...

And really fanfiction should never be seen as an interpretation of the truth...
But of course it is highly problematic - and mature writers do see that problem!

Actually most writing that touches really personal areas is anything but about them! Mostly it's about real people I know... myself, the men I get to know - the dreams I dream.

Of course that doesn't lower the stangeness...

There is by the way a story that deals about that same awkwardness and the contradiction of fanfiction... and it's really worth reading because it's extemely well written and thought of.
It sais something like "Fanfiction is strange because the ppl is is about are an unwelcome audience" and in a way that's true... but for everybody it's just a phase to deal with something pesonal, or to develope skills andself assurance.

(From: Apply in writing)

I hope that was answering your question...

hugs
Laila