I wanted to open a discussion about lyrics Vs poetry. Is there a difference?

Personally I think that every lyricist in the world is a poet in their own right, and they have the exceptional gift of putting that poetry to music. But that's just my opinion. There are those that believe that lyrics are music and poetry is poetry.

What do you think?

I think lyrics are more complex than poetry, because it has to be sung, so it has to have some meaning, and it has to have a tune and rhyme. Poetry can be quite difficult to write, but I believe lyrics are worse lol. I think a poet is on her/his way to being a lyricist(sp) so they have similarities :D

*hopes her rammbles made sense*

Well, I think technically they're the same, because can't you just take a poem and put it to music? True that lyrics are probably harder to write, because you're putting them to music, but yeah. To me, they're kind of the same because I don't like poems that don't have some kind of... flow, ya know? Not necessarily rhyming, but they just sound good, you know? Otherwise, they just kind of seem like stoties/essays where somone hit enter at random to make it look like poetry format and not a paragraph. That's just me, though. ^^;
Did that make ANY sense?

certainly did make sense, both of you.

I guess to my mind, lyrics are just poetry to music. There are a number of songs that don't have rhyming in them, and a lot that do. There are songs that have a story to them, and there are songs that have a lot of stories in one song (the ones that come to mind are Marky Mark & The Funky Bunch's version of Wildside and The Crash Test Dummies' Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm).

Some people like songs because of the music, others like songs for the lyrics.

Personally, I like songs more for the lyrics than the music. I love Eminem - but that's because I like the way he manipulates words, with a tongue-in-cheek attitude. For example:

[From Who Knew on Marshall Mathers LP]
Oh - you want me to watch my mouth, how?
Take my fuckin eyeballs out, and turn em around?
Look - I'll burn your fuckin house down, circle around
and hit the hydrant, so you can't put your burning furniture out
(Oh my God! Oh my God!) I'm sorry, there must be a mix-up
You want me to fix up lyrics while the President gets his dick sucked?
{*ewwww*} Fuck that, take drugs, rape sluts
Make fun of gay clubs, men who wear make-up
Get aware, wake up, get a sense of humor
Quit tryin to censor music, this is for your kid's amusement
(The kids!) But don't blame me when lil' Eric jumps off of the terrace
You shoulda been watchin him - apparently you ain't parents

and (same song):

So who's bringin the guns in this country? (Hmm?)
I couldn't sneak a plastic pellet gun through customs over in London
And last week, I seen a Schwarzenegger movie
where he's shootin all sorts of these motherfuckers with a uzi

From Say Goodbye To Hollywood on The Eminem Show:

I love my fans but no one ever puts a grasp on the fact
That I sacrificed everything I had
I never dreamt i'd get to the level that im at
This is wack, this is more then I ever coulda asked
Everywhere I go I had a sweater, hood or mask
What about math? how come I wasnt ever good at that
Its like the boy in a bubble who never could adapt I'm trapped
If I could go back, I never woulda rapped
I sold my soul to the devil, ill never get it back
I just wanna leave this game with level head intact
Imagine going from bein' a no one and seein everything blow up
And all you did was grow up mceein'
Its fuckin crazy, all I wanted was to give Hailie the life i never had
I've forced us to live alienated, so i'm sayin

~*~*~

I like Matchbox 20 because of the points of view put forth in the lyrics - for example, in Long Day:

And I'm so
Terrified of no one else but me
I'm here all the time
I won't go away
Yeah it's me, yeah I can't get myself to go away
Hey it's me and I can't get myself to go away
Oh God I shouldn't feel this way

But then I like Weird Al cuz he makes me laugh, I love Offspring because of the deep lyrics with the alternative music, I like The Dixie Chicks because of the beat they put to Country music, I like Melissa Etheridge because of the absolute raw emotion she puts into her lyrics, and the way she sings them...

Sam on the other hand, he likes music for the actual music, and rarely hears the words or what they mean.

Saying that... I love the way Ringo drums in The Beatles hehehe, especially HELP.

before I start....this is all my opinion... it may offend some people that don't like the same kind of music as me.

I think some lyrics are poetry, but theres a line. I mean, look at Hanson, look at Sophie Monk, look at Avril Lavigne. That's not poetry, that's people trying to please a crowd, whichever crowd it might be. Then look at John Lennon, Michael Stipe, Elvis Costello, Tom Waits. That's poetry.

my favourite lyricist by far is Thom Yorke from Radiohead. One of the main reasons i adore him so much is because his lyrics (or at least everything that came after Pablo Honey....or everything written after and including Fake Plastic Trees) are so selfless. I personally hate it when a writer only writes about themselves. In my opinion, there's nothing worse than when lyrics are too honest and personal and direct. Lyrics like that leave nothing to the imagination.

I don't like Eminem, partly because I don't like rap and partly because I think he talks about himself WAY too much. Still, you cant deny that he gets his point across in his lyrics really well. I can't stand people who don't write their own stuff.

But then you can't just like music for the lyrics. I love the toothfaieries, and their lyrics arent especially deep, but they can all play their instruments perfectly and know how to write really original music.

ok I'm gonna stop or soon i'll have to put this post in alphabetised volumes. There's my opinion on the great debate!!

:love: Riko

Very good points. I think I missed some of the refferences, because I've never heard anything by some of those people. (^^; I'm sad, I know.) But yeah. I said my thoughts on the matter. I think essentially, lyrics are poems. There are all types of lyrics, some shallow and narrow minded and self-centered, but they're are poems that mirror that, so they're basically the same in my opinion. But that's just me. ^_^

Ok, so for you, poetry has to be deep. That's cool. It has meaning and makes you think on a deeper level. That's great, and I mean that.

But not all poetry is deep.

A poem by an annonymous person is Ode To My Fish. It is this:

Oh
Wet
Pet.

Not that it's a song, but still... how deep is that?

Granted, Hanson and Sophie Monk aren't my cup of tea, and I don't mind alot of Avril Lavigne but if I have to hear her wail through I'm With You one more time I'll seriously reconsider my stance on guns and gun control, but still, on a cosmetic level, even if they aren't deep lyrics, they could still be considered poetry couldn't they?

Yeah! That's what I was trying to say, only I didn't succeed so well. Tha's exactly what I meant. ^^;

It's hard to define poetry isn't it? I guess it all comes down to each to his own in the end. Poetry, lyrics, music- it all depends on opinion really and no facts can be made about any of it. I suppose it also depends on your personal definition of poetry. I mean the dictoinary says a poet is a person posessing high powers of imagination or expression. I guess when I think of poetry I think of words that have meaning and something deep behind them, and yep, that's not actually what poetry is. I guess what I'm trying to say is- are lyrics poetry? buggered if i know!

^_^

Something we all can agree on!

mawhahaha I think it does come down to personal opinon. What is anything, if not someone's point of view?

Even truth depends greatly on your own point of view. What is true for one person is not necessarily true for another.

Exactly, so I guess that renders this debate closed? Before anyone else gets more confused?

i suppose. unless anyone else has an opinion to offer.

I have a comment to make.

That's actually very strange to me how you mention Eminem for an example.
When I saw him in concert over the summer he was talking about his lyrics and how they're always so much more important than the music because it's the lyrics IN the music that express his life... etc... and not the music itself.

For some reason that's the one thing I remember him talking about. It was a good line because whenever I listen to other songs from other artists I put Em's theory to it and wonder if everyone else thought the same way he does.

~Stacy~

I have to chime in here and disagree with the idea that lyrics and poetry are one in the same. I think that freeform poetry is often the best kind, because it's not limited by iambic pentameter or rhyme, whereas lyric writing tends to get rather technical. I have written some fairly good poetry in my day (from what I've been told,) but it's impossible for me to write song lyrics (I've tried, and the results were hideous!)

I just think that most anyone can write decent poetry, but that it takes someone really talented to write lyrics that flow musically.

I think this is really difficult to say...
Of course are Lyrics a form of Poetry... The word alone says it! Or the roots of the words.

But I wouldn't say to write Lyrics is generally harder the poetry. Because I personally really adore older poetry, with rhme and meter, wich just flows while you recite it. Lyricsdon't really need that, you can write a decent melody over almost everything... that of course is a whole art for itself - and I have HUGE respect for it since I am so unmusical :)
And sometimes poems can say so incredibly much with just a few words, lyrics can do that but that is the exception, because they don't really need it - the song ends too quickly to really appreciate it anyway...
It needs good words of course, but there is still a difference...

But let me give you some examples of my most adored poetry, you'll see what I mean:


To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

[from: Auguries of Innocence by William Blake]

***

The human heart has hidden treasures,
In secret kept, in silence sealed;
The thoughts, the hopes, the dreams, the pleasures,
Whose charms were broken if revealed.
And days may pass in gay confusion,
And nights in rosy riot fly,
While, lost in Fame's or Wealth's illusion,
The memory of the Past may die.

[...]

And it can dwell on moonlight glimmer,
On evening shade and loneliness;
And, while the sky grows dim and dimmer,
Feel no untold and strange distress
Only a deeper impulse given
By lonely hour and darkened room,
To solemn thoughts that soar to heaven,
Seeking a life and world to come.

[from: Evening Solace by Charlotte Brontë]

***

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less travelled by,
And that has made all the difference.

[from: The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost]

***

[...] Come, my friends.
'T is not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down;
It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,--
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

[from: Ulysses by Alfred, Lord Tennyson]

***

O me! Oh life! Of the question of these recurring,
Of the endless trains of the faithless,
of cities fill'd with the foolish, ...
What good admid these, Oh me, Oh life?

That you are here - That life exists and identity,
That the powerfull play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.

[from: Walt Whitman]


I really like these :)
Well, next post will be more filled with positive... um positive and negative e.g.'s of lyrics :)

So now to lyrics :)

Let's start with very poetic ones :)


Starry, starry night
Paint your palette blue and grey
Look out on a summer's day
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul
Shadows on the hills
Sketch the trees and daffodils
Catch the breeze and the winter chills
In colours on the snowy linen land

Now I understand
What you tried to say to me
And how you suffered for your sanity
And how you tried to set them free
They would not listen
They did not know how
Perhaps they'll listen now

Starry, starry night
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze
Swirling clouds and violet haze
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue
Colours changing hue
Morning fields of amber grain
Weathered faces lined in pain
Are soothed beneath the artists' loving hand

[...]

But I could have told you Vincent
This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you

[from: Vincent (Starry, Starry Night) by Josh Groban]


***

And I'd give up forever to touch you
Cause I know that you feel me somehow
You're the closest thing to heaven that I'll ever be
And I don't want to go home right now

And all I can taste is this moment
And all I can breathe is your life
Cause sooner or later it's over
I just don't want to miss you tonight

And I don't want the world to see me
Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am

And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming
Or the moment of truth in your lies
When everything seems like the movies
Yeah you bleed just to know your alive

[from: Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls]


***

When the cold of Winter comes
Starless night will cover day
In the veiling of the sun
We will walk in bitter rain

But in dreams
I can hear your name
And in dreams
We will meet again

When the seas and mountains fall
And we come, to end of days
In the dark I hear a call
Calling me there
I will go there
and back again

[from: In dreams by Edwards Ross, Howard Shore official soundtrack Lord od the Rings]


***

Well I will go down with this ship
And I wont put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
Im in love and always will be

[from: White Flag - Dido]


***

I'm tired of being what you want me to be, feeling so faithless, lost under the surface.
I don't know what you're expecting of me, put under the pressure of walking in your shoes...
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow...
Every step that I take is another mistake to you...
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow...

I've become so numb, I can't feel you there,
Become so tired, so much more aware.
By becoming this all I want to do,
Is be more like me and be less like you.

Can't you see that you're smothering me? Holding too tightly, afraid to lose control.
Coz everything that you thought would be has fallen apart right in front of you...
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow...
Every step that I take is another mistake to you...
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow...
And every second I braced is more than I can take!

[from: Numb - Linkin Park]


***

There's a calm surrender to the rush of day,
when the heat of the rolling world can be turned away.
An enchanted moment, and it sees me through.
It's enough for this restless warrior just ot be with you.

And can you feel the love tonight?
It is where we are.
It's enough for this wide-eyes wanderer
that we got this far.
And can you feel the love tonight,
how it's laid to rest?
It's enough to make kings and vagabonds
believe the very best.

There's a time for everyone,
if they only learn
that thetwisting kaleidoscope
moves us all to turn.
There's a rhyme and reason
to the wild outdoors
when the heart of this star-crossed voyager
beats in time with yours.

[from: Can you feel the love tonight by Elton John]


***


ahh damn *lol* I'm tired... more some other time ;)

I adore that Goo Goo Dolls song!

*lol* yeah me too...

But I never met anyone who knew it and doesn't... *grins*

I must say that I think that lyrics are a kind of poetry.

YOu see... i write poems ok? but if you compare them to Charlotte Bronte... they're crap ok? But it doesn't mean that it's not poetry because i wrote them from the words i tried to say and express from my imagination and my heart. Right?

So.. i must support a little bit Hanson... there's a song that i love

Good-bye four leaf clovers
Hello gone awry
Don't cry the fight ain't over
Unless you let it pass you by

chorus
I'm looking for a song to sing
Looking for a friend to borrow
I'm looking for my radio
So I might find a heart to follow
I've never been just longing for your loving
I've never been just wearing down to nothing
I've never been just looking for a reason
So that maybe you'd be thinking of me
Oh...
You'll be thinking of me

All that I have found in reason
Is reason just to not believe
When all that you're left is treason
It's treason just to let it be

I'm looking for a song to sing
Looking for a friend to borrow
I'm looking for my radio
So that I might find a heart to follow
I've never been just longing for your loving
I've never been just wearing down to nothing
I've never been just looking for a reason
So that maybe you'll be thinking of...



Ok? you see ... it could be a poem written by one of us huh?

OK ... then, we have this song, that we all know it's poetry, sad, dark poetry.



I'm so tired of being here
Supressed by all my childish fears
And if you have to leave
I wish that you would just leave
Cause your presence still lingers here
And it won't leave me alone

These wounds won't seem to heal
This pain is just too real
There's just too much that time can not erase

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you screamed I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have all of me

You used to captivate me by your resonating mind
Now I'm bound by the life you left behind
Your face it haunts my once pleasant dreams
Your voice it chased away all the sanity in me

SO i guess that lyrics are poems from the very first since they've written...

But for the other hand, we have commercial poems, you know the ones about cheesy and non deep love that are in the Hallmark cards, and we have the commercial non sense lyrics too:

I just found this at the same time that i was looking for the other lyrics, but i guess this doesn't have a deep sense but it's only my opinion:

Baby, can't you see
I'm calling
A guy like you should wear a warning
It's dangerous
I'm falling

There's no escape
I can't wait
I need a hit
Baby, give me it
You're dangerous
I'm loving it

Tonight
Can't calm down
Losin' my head
Spinnin' 'round and 'round
Do you feel me now?

With the taste of your lips
I'm on a ride
Your toxic tongue slippin' mine (Ohh Ohh)
With the taste of the poison paradise
I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that your toxic?
And I love what you do
Don't you know that your toxic?

See? there's a difference... and the same with poetry... but if the poetry is not written by profesional writers doesn't mean that it least poetry than the perfect famous ones.... (I'd like to put an example, but i have in my mind Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz, an amazing writer, but i don't have the poems in english ...) It still poetry.

Oh my god...
I hope it didn't sound as if I think only Charlotte Bronte would be "poetry"
Poetry is everything... some fealings are poetry...
And I mean my own are crappy... *lol* and still I have the guts to call them poetry ;)

Even boygroup commercial stuff can be poetry.... not always really *grins*
But there are songs... like this maybe:



Everybody's looking for a something
One thing that makes it all complete
You'll find it in the strangest places
Places you naver knew it could be

Some find it in the face of their children
Some find it in their lover's eyes
Who can deny the joy it brings
When you've found that special thing
You're flying without wings

Some find it sharing every morning
Some in their solitary lives
You'll find it in the words of others
A simple line can make you laugh or cry

You'll find it in the deepest friendship
The kind you cherish all your life
And when you know how much it means
You've found that special thing
You're flying without wings

So, impossible as it may seem
You've got to fight for every dream
Cos who's to know which one you let go
Would have made you complete

Well, for me it's waking up beside you
To watch the sunrise on your face
To know that I can say I love you
In any given time or place

It's little thing that only I know
Those are the things that make you mine
And it's like flying without wings
Cos you're my special thing
I'm flying without wings

And you're the place my life begins
And you'll be where it ends
I'm flying without wings
And that's the joy you bring
I'm flying without wings

[from: Flying without Wings by Westlife]

no! i actually think that the Bronte sisters are amazing writers so don't think that :)

LoL

Nice song ...

My favorite poet is Pablo Neruda.. it's amazing!

luvly
Andie!

Yeah, he is completely amazing!!!
I saw something of his in the original in a sanish booksshop here in cologne...
and it is sooo beautiful...

ok... I didn't really understand all of it... but partly...

Have you read Sor Juana Ines de La Cruz?

She was a mexican writer... really amazing! But her poetry is quite difficult to understand because she had magic with the words... i swear!

luvly
andie!