Rafa (&FED) under pressure: Djoko is there (Tennis Forum

Guys (& Girls of course) I found the following statement in another board..And I recalculate the points..It is correct :yikes: :yikes: :

"if you add Rome points but don't take off Hamburg you get

Federer 6825
Nadal 5435
Djokovic 5125

If you then take off the Hamburg points you get

Federer 6325
Nadal 5085
Djokovic 5000

So that is where they will start on Monday and add on any points they earn during the week - so if Djokovic does better than Nadal next week we could see a flip in the rankings. "

I mean Djoko can become the new No#2 before RG :yikes: :yikes: IMO this should put a lot of pressure on both Rafa and FED shoulders!!! A very interesting situation!!

That is if Djoko wins today, right? ...and if he wins today, I can easily see him withdraw next week...or lose in the first round or two. Anyhow, it was just a matter of time before we got to that situation, but I knew he would be dangerous player on clay!

Nole had a lot of luck to win Rome but he won it nevertheless.

I think he will exchange the #2 with Nadal for a period but despite Rog's recent losses he is still well clear at no.1 really.

Don't forget Djokovic has quite an array of points to defend soon too.

It would be kind of sad if Nadal played Federer in the semi's of Roland Gaross as I don't think despite his recent win Djokovic is as yet a proper challenger for clay.

QUOTE (Federer-Williams @ May 11 2008, 10:01 AM)

Nole had a lot of luck to win Rome but he won it nevertheless.

I think he will exchange the #2 with Nadal for a period but despite Rog's recent losses he is still well clear at no.1 really.

Don't forget Djokovic has quite an array of points to defend soon too.

It would be kind of sad if Nadal played Federer in the semi's of Roland Gaross as I don't think despite his recent win Djokovic is as yet a proper challenger for clay.

yeah but I'm not sure Rafa's number 2 is in doubt before RG?

or is it? :unsure:

QUOTE (chokapova @ May 11 2008, 06:15 PM)

QUOTE (Federer-Williams @ May 11 2008, 10:01 AM)

Nole had a lot of luck to win Rome but he won it nevertheless.

I think he will exchange the #2 with Nadal for a period but despite Rog's recent losses he is still well clear at no.1 really.

Don't forget Djokovic has quite an array of points to defend soon too.

It would be kind of sad if Nadal played Federer in the semi's of Roland Gaross as I don't think despite his recent win Djokovic is as yet a proper challenger for clay.

yeah but I'm not sure Rafa's number 2 is in doubt before RG?

or is it? :unsure:

i think Nole would have to win Hamburg but i'm not sure how early Rafa would need to go out to lose his number 2 spot. but i think it's theoretically possible :blink:

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 11 2008, 01:27 PM)

QUOTE (chokapova @ May 11 2008, 06:15 PM)

QUOTE (Federer-Williams @ May 11 2008, 10:01 AM)

Nole had a lot of luck to win Rome but he won it nevertheless.

I think he will exchange the #2 with Nadal for a period but despite Rog's recent losses he is still well clear at no.1 really.

Don't forget Djokovic has quite an array of points to defend soon too.

It would be kind of sad if Nadal played Federer in the semi's of Roland Gaross as I don't think despite his recent win Djokovic is as yet a proper challenger for clay.

yeah but I'm not sure Rafa's number 2 is in doubt before RG?

or is it? :unsure:

i think Nole would have to win Hamburg but i'm not sure how early Rafa would need to go out to lose his number 2 spot. but i think it's theoretically possible :blink:

Scenarios in which Djokovic supplants Nadal as No 2:

Nadal out 2nd rd* / Djoko reaches QFs or better
Nadal out 3rd rd / Djoko reaches SFs or better
Nadal out QFs / Djoko reaches SFs** or better
Nadal out SFs / Djoko is runner-up or champion

* opening match due to first-round bye
** SF result would mean he will have done it by a scant 15 pts!

Adding spice to these scenarios is the fact that Djoko and Nadal have both been drawn into the bottom half, meaning they are seeded to meet in the semis in a match which will literally determine who is the world No 2. As Fed-Will pointed out above, this has even bigger import because if Nadal is pushed to No 3, he can potentially meet Fed in the semis of Roland Garros rather than the final for the first time since he first won it in 2005. I'll leave it to others to decide whether this is bad for Fed and good for Nadal, or vice versa. Certainly for fans it might be a bit anticlimactic.

I should note that even if Fed somehow loses his opener in Hamburg, and Nadal wins the title, the new points standings would be Fed - 6330 and Nadal - 5585, which still leaves him a 745-pt cushion (enough for him to also lose his opening match in Paris and still remain at No 1!). If Djoko (who has more room for improvement points-wise than Nadal) somehow swept both Hamburg and Roland Garros, he would have 6050 pts, also well off the mark. So even with the very worst possible scenarios, Fed is safe through to Wimbledon, with the added bonus of being able to pick up free points in Halle, which he has won four times and took a pass on last year.

Lastly, despite the excitement brewing over the No 2 spot, I remain unconvinced that both Nadal and Djoko will be fully fit and motivated this week. We'll see how it goes. And despite disappointment in Rome, in my view Fed remains the heavy favourite to repeat as champion in Hamburg and win the title a remarkable fifth time (I may be mistaken but I think the only other event he has won as many times is Wimbledon itself).

QUOTE (Manzikert @ May 12 2008, 06:45 AM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 11 2008, 01:27 PM)

QUOTE (chokapova @ May 11 2008, 06:15 PM)

QUOTE (Federer-Williams @ May 11 2008, 10:01 AM)

Nole had a lot of luck to win Rome but he won it nevertheless.

I think he will exchange the #2 with Nadal for a period but despite Rog's recent losses he is still well clear at no.1 really.

Don't forget Djokovic has quite an array of points to defend soon too.

It would be kind of sad if Nadal played Federer in the semi's of Roland Gaross as I don't think despite his recent win Djokovic is as yet a proper challenger for clay.

yeah but I'm not sure Rafa's number 2 is in doubt before RG?

or is it? :unsure:

i think Nole would have to win Hamburg but i'm not sure how early Rafa would need to go out to lose his number 2 spot. but i think it's theoretically possible :blink:

Scenarios in which Djokovic supplants Nadal as No 2:

Nadal out 2nd rd* / Djoko reaches QFs or better
Nadal out 3rd rd / Djoko reaches SFs or better
Nadal out QFs / Djoko reaches SFs** or better
Nadal out SFs / Djoko is runner-up or champion

* opening match due to first-round bye
** SF result would mean he will have done it by a scant 15 pts!

Adding spice to these scenarios is the fact that Djoko and Nadal have both been drawn into the bottom half, meaning they are seeded to meet in the semis in a match which will literally determine who is the world No 2. As Fed-Will pointed out above, this has even bigger import because if Nadal is pushed to No 3, he can potentially meet Fed in the semis of Roland Garros rather than the final for the first time since he first won it in 2005. I'll leave it to others to decide whether this is bad for Fed and good for Nadal, or vice versa. Certainly for fans it might be a bit anticlimactic.

I should note that even if Fed somehow loses his opener in Hamburg, and Nadal wins the title, the new points standings would be Fed - 6330 and Nadal - 5585, which still leaves him a 745-pt cushion (enough for him to also lose his opening match in Paris and still remain at No 1!). If Djoko (who has more room for improvement points-wise than Nadal) somehow swept both Hamburg and Roland Garros, he would have 6050 pts, also well off the mark. So even with the very worst possible scenarios, Fed is safe through to Wimbledon, with the added bonus of being able to pick up free points in Halle, which he has won four times and took a pass on last year.

Lastly, despite the excitement brewing over the No 2 spot, I remain unconvinced that both Nadal and Djoko will be fully fit and motivated this week. We'll see how it goes. And despite disappointment in Rome, in my view Fed remains the heavy favourite to repeat as champion in Hamburg and win the title a remarkable fifth time (I may be mistaken but I think the only other event he has won as many times is Wimbledon itself).

Manzikert thanks a lot to finish out the analysis in such a detailed and precise way: Great post :bow: :bow:

i will comment a single element of your conclusion: You are basically saying that Djoko (and even Rafa) will not be fully motivated and fit for Hamburg ..I really have some doubts about the Djoko's scenario: IMO yesterday he played a GREAT final that did not take out of him an incredible amount of energy..Stan the man was very good in the first set but since Djoko adjusted his BH and serve he was just too much for him...This performance speak volumes about the current intentions of Djoko: He wants to put a lot of pressure to both Rafa and FED before the two keys events of their seasons, i.e. RG and Wimbledon..So, I am really expecting from him to be there in the quarter (two matches pass then) or even better...
BTW: I will always remember one of the first interview of Djoko , if I remember well after his mach against FED at the AO '07: He lost in straight sets but he simply pointed out (it is not his words but my memory) "Well I was not able to put pressure on him during the match BUT also he is too relax at the moment as a N#1, his confidence is too high so he plays unbelievable the deciding points. Our purpose as a young guns is to create this pressure so he will start missing some points in the decider"..

I do not know why but this shows, IMO, a great understand of the game and a great maturity..Only for that I have lot of respect for Djoko (despite his mam :lmaao: )

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 11 2008, 09:18 AM)

That is if Djoko wins today, right? ...and if he wins today, I can easily see him withdraw next week...or lose in the first round or two. Anyhow, it was just a matter of time before we got to that situation, but I knew he would be dangerous player on clay!

Hi Mr. T yes the scenario was based on his victory: Stan the man had just zero chances IMO to win the final yesterday even if he was able to fight very well in the first set :rolleyes:

BTW..The first scenario I have presented is the correct one: ATP did not take off "the points Hamburg", so you get

Federer 6825
Nadal 5435
Djokovic 5125

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/

:yikes: :yikes: Close so close :yikes: :yikes:

BTW: Thomas Muster came out with some really interesting quotes about the current game:

“I would still just about make Nadal the favourite to win the French Open again, but I think he is already playing at capacity,” said Muster. “He doesn’t have the same reserves that someone like Novak Djokovic does. There is still a lot more to come from Djokovic, and he is getting very close to the No.2 position now. Djokovic is very confident right now yet he still has plenty of things that he can improve, so to be at the level he already is with things still to improve and time ahead of him, it means he can go all the way to No.1[I fully agree].”

With Federer still at the top of the game, and such competition to displace him, Muster believes that the sport is enjoying a golden era.

“The gap at the top of the game is definitely closing and it will make for a really interesting French Open,” said the Austrian. “Federer has always got a chance and I saw that he started playing early on clay this year by going to Estoril so he’s obviously taking it very seriously. He’s had a few ups and downs this year but that’s normal. The other guys are getting better all the time, but look at Federer’s results - you have to look very hard to find any imperfections in his game. But, it’s probably as open as it’s been in a long time. The French Open requires two weeks of consistent five-set tennis and it’s really tough. A lot will depend on the weather as well. If it’s good for two weeks, the guys like Federer and Djokovic have a much better chance. If it rains or if it’s colder, it’s much better for Nadal.[ :yikes: THIS IS STRANGE :yikes: IMO :shrug: I am just thinking the contrary]

QUOTE (Manzikert @ May 12 2008, 06:45 AM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 11 2008, 01:27 PM)

QUOTE (chokapova @ May 11 2008, 06:15 PM)

QUOTE (Federer-Williams @ May 11 2008, 10:01 AM)

Nole had a lot of luck to win Rome but he won it nevertheless.

I think he will exchange the #2 with Nadal for a period but despite Rog's recent losses he is still well clear at no.1 really.

Don't forget Djokovic has quite an array of points to defend soon too.

It would be kind of sad if Nadal played Federer in the semi's of Roland Gaross as I don't think despite his recent win Djokovic is as yet a proper challenger for clay.

yeah but I'm not sure Rafa's number 2 is in doubt before RG?

or is it? :unsure:

i think Nole would have to win Hamburg but i'm not sure how early Rafa would need to go out to lose his number 2 spot. but i think it's theoretically possible :blink:

Scenarios in which Djokovic supplants Nadal as No 2:

Nadal out 2nd rd* / Djoko reaches QFs or better
Nadal out 3rd rd / Djoko reaches SFs or better
Nadal out QFs / Djoko reaches SFs** or better
Nadal out SFs / Djoko is runner-up or champion

* opening match due to first-round bye
** SF result would mean he will have done it by a scant 15 pts!

Adding spice to these scenarios is the fact that Djoko and Nadal have both been drawn into the bottom half, meaning they are seeded to meet in the semis in a match which will literally determine who is the world No 2. As Fed-Will pointed out above, this has even bigger import because if Nadal is pushed to No 3, he can potentially meet Fed in the semis of Roland Garros rather than the final for the first time since he first won it in 2005. I'll leave it to others to decide whether this is bad for Fed and good for Nadal, or vice versa. Certainly for fans it might be a bit anticlimactic.

I should note that even if Fed somehow loses his opener in Hamburg, and Nadal wins the title, the new points standings would be Fed - 6330 and Nadal - 5585, which still leaves him a 745-pt cushion (enough for him to also lose his opening match in Paris and still remain at No 1!). If Djoko (who has more room for improvement points-wise than Nadal) somehow swept both Hamburg and Roland Garros, he would have 6050 pts, also well off the mark. So even with the very worst possible scenarios, Fed is safe through to Wimbledon, with the added bonus of being able to pick up free points in Halle, which he has won four times and took a pass on last year.

Lastly, despite the excitement brewing over the No 2 spot, I remain unconvinced that both Nadal and Djoko will be fully fit and motivated this week. We'll see how it goes. And despite disappointment in Rome, in my view Fed remains the heavy favourite to repeat as champion in Hamburg and win the title a remarkable fifth time (I may be mistaken but I think the only other event he has won as many times is Wimbledon itself).

cheers Manzikert :ok: Lots of pressure for Nadal then really - he's got to win this or at least get to the final again. :yikes: Vamos Nadal!!!!

Thanks TV. the race is very close indeed and should Djoko go one round further than Nadal in Hmburg(with both reaching the QF) , then he would overtake Nadal.

I agree with Muster comments on Djoko's potential. It's there and one feel it's just a question of time before he takes over. I just wish Federer would still dominate for another 2 years and a new prodigee to come on the scene....cause even by watching yesterday match, I found more flair in Stan than Djoko.

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 08:11 AM)

Thanks TV. the race is very close indeed and should Djoko go one round further than Nadal in Hmburg(with both reaching the QF) , then he would overtake Nadal.

I agree with Muster comments on Djoko's potential. It's there and one feel it's just a question of time before he takes over. I just wish Federer would still dominate for another 2 years and a new prodigee to come on the scene....cause even by watching yesterday match, I found more flair in Stan than Djoko.

Hi Mr.T ..Flair.Difficult to define. In the second and third sets Djoko was able to put so much pressure on Stan's serve, it was a great job: He was fighting point after point on Stan's serve and keeping so easily his serve..

No the man has weapons and a quite impressive almost complete game (still quite a big hole in terms of his net attitude)..But I really like the guy and his game..I agree he is not FED the Genius, the shot maker but he is so solid so damn good on court coverage for instance..The man has numbers..But might be you are right he does not have "Flair" (i.e. huge shot making attitude..Still some of his FH winners are gorgeous to watch).. :rolleyes:

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 08:35 AM)

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 08:11 AM)

Thanks TV. the race is very close indeed and should Djoko go one round further than Nadal in Hmburg(with both reaching the QF) , then he would overtake Nadal.

I agree with Muster comments on Djoko's potential. It's there and one feel it's just a question of time before he takes over. I just wish Federer would still dominate for another 2 years and a new prodigee to come on the scene....cause even by watching yesterday match, I found more flair in Stan than Djoko.

Hi Mr.T ..Flair.Difficult to define. In the second and third sets Djoko was able to put so much pressure on Stan's serve, it was a great job: He was fighting point after point on Stan's serve and keeping so easily his serve..

No the man has weapons and a quite impressive almost complete game (still quite a big hole in terms of his net attitude)..But I really like the guy and his game..I agree he is not FED the Genius, the shot maker but he is so solid so damn good on court coverage for instance..The man has numbers..But might be you are right he does not have "Flair" (i.e. huge shot making attitude..Still some of his FH winners are gorgeous to watch).. :rolleyes:

I felt Stan ran out of gas after the first set. His BH and FH did not put Djoko on the backfoot like in the first set which allowed of course Djoko to dictate. Also Djoko started to break Stan's rhythm by looping the ball a la Nadal when he was being stretched. This happened rarely but on some crucial points and was enough to turn a defensive position into an attacking one. Clay allows for that like no other surface.

QUOTE

I found more flair in Stan than Djoko.

Agreed - his backhand was sublime at times. What let him down was mentality...and as we know, that is an all too important aspect of becoming a champion.

I am gunning for Nadal to hold onto his number 2 position, although I do feel it's only a matter of time for Djokovic. He's proving that he can hold his own on all surfaces, and those ground strokes are just getting better.

Finally, however, we'll see Djokovic and Nadal face-off on clay...and I am really looking forward to it. I want to see if Djokos backhand will negate Nadals standard line of attack - ot whether Rafa will mix it up and grind Novak down....

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 11 2008, 05:31 AM)

Guys (& Girls of course) I found the following statement in another board..And I recalculate the points..It is correct :yikes: :yikes: :

"if you add Rome points but don't take off Hamburg you get

Federer 6825
Nadal 5435
Djokovic 5125

If you then take off the Hamburg points you get

Federer 6325
Nadal 5085
Djokovic 5000

So that is where they will start on Monday and add on any points they earn during the week - so if Djokovic does better than Nadal next week we could see a flip in the rankings. "

I mean Djoko can become the new No#2 before RG :yikes: :yikes: IMO this should put a lot of pressure on both Rafa and FED shoulders!!! A very interesting situation!!

Will they take the RG points from 2007 off before RG begins this year?

If they do then Nadal loses 1000, Fed 700, and Djokovic 450 (I think).

Then, surely, Nadal will be behind Djokovic in pretty much any scenario you care to think of?

If that were the case, Nadal would then have a 50/50 chance of being in Fed's side of the draw as No. 3....

Hmm Dijko surely deserves the ranking he gets, he's just such a good player on all surfaces ... might he be the one to win on all surfaces after agassi :hmm: but if he does get to the no:1 ranking too he thoroughly deserves it...he may not be as elegant to watch as Fed nevertheless he's extremely effective...

They won't take RG points for RG ranking. First because this would be unfair of the respective level of players on clay (like taking Wimbledon results out for grass seeding) but also because it's a 2-week event and therefore they will have made their seeding well before they have time to take RG out.

I am not even sure they'll wait for Hamburg's result to get the seeding out.

QUOTE

Stan the man was very good in the first set but since Djoko adjusted his BH and serve he was just too much for him...This performance speak volumes about the current intentions of Djoko: He wants to put a lot of pressure to both Rafa and FED before the two keys events of their seasons, i.e. RG and Wimbledon..So, I am really expecting from him to be there in the quarter (two matches pass then) or even better...

I think this year is down to both Federer and Nadal.Its more Federer to lose than anything else.With his terrible form,the so-called mono its actually his to lose.We now have Nadal in the fray with blistered feet,fatigue and his f*cked up knees(pardon the language) also spiking and dipping in form.But of him and Federer he has been the better player this year yet he has more to lose at this point in the year than Federer. :ok:

Djokovic is just picking up where these two are slacking and to be quite honest,if you dont grab your oppurtunities when they come around then its a pity really which deserves no sympathy. :ok: Novak has been able to do just that,grab what he can when he can.And full credit to him.

I would just like for this year at some point to reach Nadal,Federer and Djokovic all playing well together and then we will see who is the real deal.

Interesting thoughts on the ranking and very interesting scenarios.Its going to be fun,fun fun and very nerve wrecking for the fans. :ok:

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 09:28 AM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 08:35 AM)

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 08:11 AM)

Thanks TV. the race is very close indeed and should Djoko go one round further than Nadal in Hmburg(with both reaching the QF) , then he would overtake Nadal.

I agree with Muster comments on Djoko's potential. It's there and one feel it's just a question of time before he takes over. I just wish Federer would still dominate for another 2 years and a new prodigee to come on the scene....cause even by watching yesterday match, I found more flair in Stan than Djoko.

Hi Mr.T ..Flair.Difficult to define. In the second and third sets Djoko was able to put so much pressure on Stan's serve, it was a great job: He was fighting point after point on Stan's serve and keeping so easily his serve..

No the man has weapons and a quite impressive almost complete game (still quite a big hole in terms of his net attitude)..But I really like the guy and his game..I agree he is not FED the Genius, the shot maker but he is so solid so damn good on court coverage for instance..The man has numbers..But might be you are right he does not have "Flair" (i.e. huge shot making attitude..Still some of his FH winners are gorgeous to watch).. :rolleyes:

I felt Stan ran out of gas after the first set. His BH and FH did not put Djoko on the backfoot like in the first set which allowed of course Djoko to dictate. Also Djoko started to break Stan's rhythm by looping the ball a la Nadal when he was being stretched. This happened rarely but on some crucial points and was enough to turn a defensive position into an attacking one. Clay allows for that like no other surface.

Mr. T I agree..In particular the sentence I have stressed. it is a gift of a great player to adapt his game to the one of his opponent, he saw after the first set that he had to change something in his game given the (in particular) Stan's BH was too strong and he did the change..It is a sign of maturity: Stay calm and search for a plan B hoping as well that your opponent decrease his level of play of at least 10%..This was just what happens..Djoko deserves all the points he has, he plays well from the beginning of the year and he shows that he has improved a lot in plenty of domains IMO.

Ps: I agree with Darky as well..It will be great to see all the three top players playing at their top..Let's hope this will happen in Wimbledon (The most important GS title anyway ;) ;) )

BTW This is another reason I prefer Djoko to Rafa..The man wants to become N#1..Rafa is just ridicoulus ( and I am very happy not being one of his fans)..Come on how can you said this sort of stuff (he has been quite close to Federer in the rankings and FED is sucking badly this year so far. If he thinks its still not time to topple Federer from that No.1 spot then I do not what else he is waiting for):

Clay-court king Nadal happy to be second best to Federer

HAMBURG, Germany (AFP) — Spanish clay-court king Rafael Nadal, the favourite for the Hamburg Masters Series which starts here on Monday, admitted on Sunday he takes some solace being second behind Swiss master Roger Federer.

"For me, Roger is the best player of all time and I am the best number two in the world, :doh: :doh: :bs: " Nadal told Sunday's edition of Die Welt newspaper.

"I would be very pleased to be world number one, but that is not something which obsesses me. I am just glad to be able to play at 100 percent.

"If I one day become the best in the world, that would be extraordinary, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen," [Mamma Mia: How can you say something like that!!! :yikes: :yikes: ] said the Spaniard who has won the last three titles at Roland Garros, which starts at the end of the month.

Nadal has been second to Federer in the ATP rankings since July 25, 2005 and the Swiss master has been world number one since February 2, 2004 - 223 consecutive weeks - which is a record.

"I have a lot of respect for Roger and I know he has the same for me," said the 21-year-old Nadal.

The Spaniard, who lost the 2007 final in Hamburg to Federer, also repeated his criticism of the ATP's calender season.

"It is a big mistake that four of the five most important tournaments on clay - Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome and Hamburg - are all held in one four week period," said the Spaniard.

"I need to take part in all these tournaments, I will try to give it my best shot, but I know that will be difficult.

"This calendar damages the European tournaments and especially to us, the players," added Nadal hoping that "the ATP will do what it was created for, to look after the professional players."

At least Djoko is honest: He wants he plans and he tries.. :clap: :clap:

tbf though TV, whenever Djoko says he's going to be number 1 or whatever he gets lots of stick for being disrespectful to Fed :shrug: I don't think they can win tbh - either they're not ambitious enough, or they're too ambitious.

I sincerely doubt that Nadal doesn't want to be world number 1 - I don't think he goes in to tournaments saying "right, best lose here or I might get the numer 1 spot." :unsure: But by not saying it explicitly in public he's removing some of the pressure that others will put on him, or that he will put on himself. It's about not "creating a monster" i think........

In the end, he knows that he can't control what happens to Fed - he can only do his best in tournaments, and like he said "if it happens, it happens." :shrug:

Hi TV - I would not pay too much attention to what is being said and we are probably clearly underestimating Rafa's injury list which probably makes him a bit more humble. This is actually the reason why I like him over Djoko. He doesn't over talk but gives 100% on the court even when he s not 100%. The other one talks too much, even when he loses, and still can't face defeat like a grown up. Remember, he "was not sure he was fit enough to play Rome".....my @ss! :whistle:

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 03:20 PM)

Hi TV - I would not pay too much attention to what is being said and we are probably clearly underestimating Rafa's injury list which probably makes him a bit more humble.

yes - i think that's what i was trying to say. :unsure: Rafa has learnt how to deal with the press and is playing nice......i don't doubt that he's ambitious and would love to be world number 1, he just being humble as Tenez said.

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 03:20 PM)

Hi TV - I would not pay too much attention to what is being said and we are probably clearly underestimating Rafa's injury list which probably makes him a bit more humble. This is actually the reason why I like him over Djoko. He doesn't over talk but gives 100% on the court even when he s not 100%. The other one talks too much, even when he loses, and still can't face defeat like a grown up. Remember, he "was not sure he was fit enough to play Rome".....my @ss! :whistle:

Ok I see your points..Still..A more aggressive out court attitude by Rafa would be great IMO..Anyway..Each one has his own pref players..I prefer Djoko on court because he is definitely a more "aggressive" player and out court because he is playing a lot more with the the media and he knows how "manipulate" them( I like his way to "spice" everything, on that side he proves to be a great actor and we need this sort of caracter among two "agelic" champions like FED and Rafa IMO)..Said that: I have a great respect of Rafa's career and amazing results on clay

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:27 PM)

I like his way to "spice" everything, on that side he proves to be a great actor and we need this sort of caracter among two "agelic" champions like FED and Rafa IMO)..

I reckon Safin should be doing that job :P

I see your point though - everyone loves a bad boy :whistle:

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 03:32 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:27 PM)

I like his way to "spice" everything, on that side he proves to be a great actor and we need this sort of caracter among two "agelic" champions like FED and Rafa IMO)..

I reckon Safin should be doing that job :P

I see your point though - everyone loves a bad boy :whistle:

Indeed he is really the bad boy..With him there will be tons of haters I am sure :lmaao: :lmaao:

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:36 PM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 03:32 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:27 PM)

I like his way to "spice" everything, on that side he proves to be a great actor and we need this sort of caracter among two "agelic" champions like FED and Rafa IMO)..

I reckon Safin should be doing that job :P

I see your point though - everyone loves a bad boy :whistle:

Indeed he is really the bad boy..With him there will be tons of haters I am sure :lmaao: :lmaao:

and probably an equal number of fans :P

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 03:39 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:36 PM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 03:32 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:27 PM)

I like his way to "spice" everything, on that side he proves to be a great actor and we need this sort of caracter among two "agelic" champions like FED and Rafa IMO)..

I reckon Safin should be doing that job :P

I see your point though - everyone loves a bad boy :whistle:

Indeed he is really the bad boy..With him there will be tons of haters I am sure :lmaao: :lmaao:

and probably an equal number of fans :P

But as a bad boy he is not at the level of a Sodo..I mean this guy he has certainly a "big" head time to time..But at the same time he back up with results..Once again, I like that: If you back up with results you are entitled IMO to be provocative and spice up..

So welcome Djoko and your spice :bow: :bow:

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 04:20 PM)

tbf though TV, whenever Djoko says he's going to be number 1 or whatever he gets lots of stick for being disrespectful to Fed :shrug: I don't think they can win tbh - either they're not ambitious enough, or they're too ambitious.

I sincerely doubt that Nadal doesn't want to be world number 1 - I don't think he goes in to tournaments saying "right, best lose here or I might get the numer 1 spot." :unsure: But by not saying it explicitly in public he's removing some of the pressure that others will put on him, or that he will put on himself. It's about not "creating a monster" i think........

In the end, he knows that he can't control what happens to Fed - he can only do his best in tournaments, and like he said "if it happens, it happens." :shrug:

Is being number 1 at the end of the day that big a deal? :shrug: I personally think its more of an ego thing and the world wanting to measure who is the best.Remember being number 1 doesnt mean you are the best.We have had some shocking number 1 in the past :rolleyes:

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:46 PM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 04:20 PM)

tbf though TV, whenever Djoko says he's going to be number 1 or whatever he gets lots of stick for being disrespectful to Fed :shrug: I don't think they can win tbh - either they're not ambitious enough, or they're too ambitious.

I sincerely doubt that Nadal doesn't want to be world number 1 - I don't think he goes in to tournaments saying "right, best lose here or I might get the numer 1 spot." :unsure: But by not saying it explicitly in public he's removing some of the pressure that others will put on him, or that he will put on himself. It's about not "creating a monster" i think........

In the end, he knows that he can't control what happens to Fed - he can only do his best in tournaments, and like he said "if it happens, it happens." :shrug:

Is being number 1 at the end of the day that big a deal? :shrug: I personally think its more of an ego thing and the world wanting to measure who is the best.Remember being number 1 doesnt mean you are the best.We have had some shocking number 1 in the past :rolleyes:

fair point actually Dark :ok: I would assume it's somewhere on Rafa's list of "things to do" but it's probably not as important to him as defending his FO title, and also winning Wimbledon - he seems quite keen to do that :shrug:

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:46 PM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 04:20 PM)

tbf though TV, whenever Djoko says he's going to be number 1 or whatever he gets lots of stick for being disrespectful to Fed :shrug: I don't think they can win tbh - either they're not ambitious enough, or they're too ambitious.

I sincerely doubt that Nadal doesn't want to be world number 1 - I don't think he goes in to tournaments saying "right, best lose here or I might get the numer 1 spot." :unsure: But by not saying it explicitly in public he's removing some of the pressure that others will put on him, or that he will put on himself. It's about not "creating a monster" i think........

In the end, he knows that he can't control what happens to Fed - he can only do his best in tournaments, and like he said "if it happens, it happens." :shrug:

Is being number 1 at the end of the day that big a deal? :shrug: I personally think its more of an ego thing and the world wanting to measure who is the best.Remember being number 1 doesnt mean you are the best.We have had some shocking number 1 in the past :rolleyes:

I agree with you : The main fact is to become N#1 and then keep that position long enough to enter in Tennis history no doubts on that..And Rafa entered already in Tennis history without being a N#1..Agree as well..Still he is so :yawn: and angelic that he gets my nerves with the sort of interview I posted above..

From a fighter like him I would expect a better attitude out of the court that 's all ;)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:58 PM)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

My friend I agree with you but here we are talking about a guy who owns the record as the longest N#2 in the open ERA..Rafa needs to become N#1..Come on..He needs to believe..If he does not believe when FED is not at his top when does he have??

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 04:09 PM)

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:58 PM)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

My friend I agree with you but here we are talking about a guy who owns the record as the longest N#2 in the open ERA..Rafa needs to become N#1..Come on..He needs to believe..If he does not believe when FED is not at his top when does he have??

the thing is TV you don't know what he believes, you just know what he says in public - i suspect there's a big difference. For all you know he could spend 10 minutes every night chanting "I will be world number 1" in front of a mirror, but just doesn't say it in public :P

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 04:18 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 04:09 PM)

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:58 PM)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

My friend I agree with you but here we are talking about a guy who owns the record as the longest N#2 in the open ERA..Rafa needs to become N#1..Come on..He needs to believe..If he does not believe when FED is not at his top when does he have??

the thing is TV you don't know what he believes, you just know what he says in public - i suspect there's a big difference. For all you know he could spend 10 minutes every night chanting "I will be world number 1" in front of a mirror, but just doesn't say it in public :P

:lmaao: Right..It will be funny to have that on YouTube :lmaao: :lmaao:

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 03:09 PM)

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:58 PM)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

My friend I agree with you but here we are talking about a guy who owns the record as the longest N#2 in the open ERA..Rafa needs to become N#1..Come on..He needs to believe..If he does not believe when FED is not at his top when does he have??

I don't agree with either of you about Nadal. Whilst I agree that winning GS and top quality tournaments is always going to be the first aim, and I don't think that Rios having been No. 1 is very significant, I would think that being the No. 1 is pretty important for a player of Nadal's stature. He has won loads of MS tournaments, he has won RGx3 and made 2 Wimbledon finals, but he's never been able to call himself 'officially' the best in the world. Courier did, Kuerten did, Roddick did, Ferrero did, Muster did - even Moya and Rafter were top dogs (v. briefly) - IMHO Rafa's career will be incomplete if he does not make it. "Former No. 1 and multiple GS winner" would be a suitable epitaph on his career. Otherwise he will always be painted as a clay-court man who came good for the spring each year and no more.

And Dark, Davydenko cannot get to No. 1 simply by playing more tournaments, only the best 5 outside the compulsory ones count. Quantiy matters less than quality.

As Borg was saying to McEnroe when Lendl took over those two .." You know John that it's all aout being number 1!".

If being number 1 is not important, is ending the year as number one important either?

I think what is important is what those players fight for! That is the Record book. But if I personally had to choose betwen the AO, or being number 1, I'd go for nber 1. I would probably also say that of the FO and USO....but not Wimbledon. As much as I like Korda, I think Rios achieved more by being nber 1 than Korda winning the AO.

Being nber is like climbing the everest. Once you have, it can't be taken away from you. To me its as good as a slam. Darky says some ridiculous players got to nber 1...but in fact not that many. Probably more ridiculous players won GSs actually and I don't want to name any! ;)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 04:26 PM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 04:18 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 04:09 PM)

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:58 PM)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

My friend I agree with you but here we are talking about a guy who owns the record as the longest N#2 in the open ERA..Rafa needs to become N#1..Come on..He needs to believe..If he does not believe when FED is not at his top when does he have??

the thing is TV you don't know what he believes, you just know what he says in public - i suspect there's a big difference. For all you know he could spend 10 minutes every night chanting "I will be world number 1" in front of a mirror, but just doesn't say it in public :P

:lmaao: Right..It will be funny to have that on YouTube :lmaao: :lmaao:

roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao

QUOTE (SuperBRAT @ May 12 2008, 10:38 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 04:26 PM)

QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ May 12 2008, 04:18 PM)

QUOTE (Tennisveritas @ May 12 2008, 04:09 PM)

QUOTE (Dark_Necrofear™ @ May 12 2008, 03:58 PM)

Imagine this scenario,you could get someone like Davydenko who would be a world number 1 if Nadal and Federer werent around because he playes everything everywhere.Does that really make you the best? :shrug: For me its not that important.I think players want to be remebered for the quality of Titles they won and who they beat rather than a fickle ranking.For others like the McEnroe type its everything to them. :ok:

My friend I agree with you but here we are talking about a guy who owns the record as the longest N#2 in the open ERA..Rafa needs to become N#1..Come on..He needs to believe..If he does not believe when FED is not at his top when does he have??

the thing is TV you don't know what he believes, you just know what he says in public - i suspect there's a big difference. For all you know he could spend 10 minutes every night chanting "I will be world number 1" in front of a mirror, but just doesn't say it in public :P

:lmaao: Right..It will be funny to have that on YouTube :lmaao: :lmaao:

roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao

i volunteer to sneak in to rafa's room at night..... :whistle:

QUOTE (Tenez @ May 12 2008, 10:09 PM)

Darky says some ridiculous players got to nber 1...but in fact not that many. Probably more ridiculous players won GSs actually and I don't want to name any! ;)

roflmao roflmao roflmao

God that made me laugh! :lol:

View Full Version: Rafa (&FED) under pressure: Djoko is there