Well I see that no one has made light of Murrays thrashing this week.I seem to think that another bagel from his compadre' in terms of age tells me that he is definetly not top 10 long term material. :ok: Whilst many of us here agree the man is diversly talented in many facets of the sport he certainly still has lots more to learn. :ok:

Im harsh on him because of all the british media fuss surrounding him and the hype.Its amazing how there was no hype about the loss but let him beat Federer and he is the next best thing since ice-cream :rolleyes:

Maybe he should train with Novak. :) Im sorry guys that Im so hard on him but he needs to grow up.

I think the main reason for the silence is the inevitability of the outcome. Djoko does everything Andy does but a bit better, pacier. So there is in effect nothing Andy can do about it. As long as he wil be in Djoko's path, he 'll have close to zero chance of getting past him. Andy can rely on all other players of the ATP to hang themselves while playing him.....even Federer.....but not Djoko. :shrug:

As funny as this post is,its hilariously true.However I disagree that Djoko does everything Andy does but better.Djoko is a different breed altogether.His attitude from the first time I saw him was the one of "I want to be big and I want to be big now" and thats what he has that Murray doesnt. :ok:

I must say that I find it a bit full of hypocracy that when Murray gets a mangling it slips under the radar but let him score 1 big win and its trumpets and fanfair.Most annoying. :angry:

He has dropped out of the top 10 way down near 20 and hasnt had any performances of substance as of late.But you dont get the atories doing the rounds about Murray on the decline etc but Federer on the way out is everywhere. :rolleyes:

I think we just need a little perspective before we go blowing trumpets thats all. :ok:

The hypocracy belongs in the media and not on CC. I think when Murray beat Federer the only story doing the rounds here was Federer's post match comments.

And why has not much been said about Djoko thrashing him. I think because as Tenez said, it was pretty much expected on here.

Thats the thing,I wasnt talking about CC I was talking about the media,well the british media to be precise! :rolleyes: :ok:

Fair enough I misunderstood and I apologise DN. But believe me the media have made a decent amount of stories about him "crashing out" to Djoko. I got fed up of hearing it on the radio on Thursday.

The papers have already in his career elevated him to a status of "will do better than Henman and win a slam" before he has proven himself and a lot is expected of one man. The British Media do not understand the details of tennis and when he beats Fed (on more than one occasion) then to them that's more or less a certainty that he is headed for the top. They don't quite understand how it work sI am afraid.

Being ranked 20th isn't too bad considering he missed RG and Wimbledon etc (and didn't play a tourney in three months due to injury) and he is ranked 9th in the ATP race.

But the media are pretty hypocritcal and unknowledgeable because I still bet people who don't follow tennis will still be hyping up the 'will Andy Murray win Wimbledon this year' when the answer is a big fat no.

I did notice that the Newsround sports bulletin mentioned Murray's defeat but conveniently didn't mention the scoreline ;)

I didn't expect him to beat Djokovic. Certainly not on clay and not yet. So it's no surpise and nothing to get worked up about IMO. Also it's no disgrace really to Murray, as nevets says his ranking is good considering what he has missed through injury. I don't think Murray needs to 'grow up' it's just a question of honing skills and tactics and doing his best in the future, which he is trying to do anyway. :) it might be that Djoko and those type of players will prove a problem for him through out his career but then eveyrone has a nemesis player fo gamestyle, even Federer.

One thing I would like to pick up on.

Djokovic gave one comment that stood out,"He needs to be more aggressive"

We all say it time and time again,but Murray lacks the one shot he needs,yes even on clay,the forehand put away off the short ball.

Federer,Djokovic,Tsonga,Nadal,and even Davydenko because of his early hitting can blast it,to either end points or set up and error,or easy volley.

It's now a basic play in the modern game,and one where Murray probably needs a session or two just hitting these types of forehands from all areas of the court.

Until then he's Henmann MkII :hide:

No sweat! :ok:

:ok: I agree. He needs to be more aggressive.Wasnt it Tommy Haas last year that had the same problem with him saying he isnt aggressive? :shrug:

I think you hit the nail on the head there Brakkus :ok:

Do remember though clay is crippling for Murray as a surface. For Federer and Djoko it is their weak surface but they're still good on it. Murray is totally flummoxed by it - his record on it is crap.

Still he shouldn't have been slack to get the bagel and is playing better on it than last year atleast.

I think Murray is over-hyped by the British Media too and I can see why that is annoying.

There is a similarly invidious thing happening too though - fans are trying to balance out the unfairness by analysing and nitpicking over the character flaws of a young man in the public eye in a deeply personal way. Also, his set-backs are enjoyed more so than anyone else's.

It is not Murray's fault that he is over-hyped, I am sure he would prefer being able to work away under the radar.

The big thing I see with Murray is that he seems to be either physically weak or a late physical developer - either way he cannot at the moment hope to match Djokovic or Nadal. My hope is that he allows himself the best chance to develop to his maximum physical state and then, with any luck, we will see what he is capable of.

He has achieved more so far than Henman had at his age - he has every chance of going further, but I think it's the physical side that will govern it one way or another - although I agree that he needs to be a bit more aggressive (which may reduce the wear on his body too)

In the meantime - just because the British press treat him differently, let's not us do the same.

Clay a crippling sirface for Murray? :blink: Correct me if Im wrong but didnt he say he grew up on clay and is quite good on it? :shrug:

Most British sporting media are as excitable as gerbils on speed and have a memory span to shame a goldfish. Ignore them (but you knew that anyway).

More particularly, because in most sports Britain doesn't have strength in depth, whoever's best gets disproportionate attention, and the distinction between "competitive at world level" and "world-beater" gets sadly blurred, as in Andy Murray's case.
There are parallels in other sports - for instance the distance runner Mo Farah, who only makes the headlines because he runs in a British vest and is our only hope in his speciality. If he ran for an East African nation he would be just one among many similarly-talented athletes with nothing to single him out as a superstar.

He is irratatingly over hyped and thats the problem I have here,the media.They can be the do all,be all and end all of any celeb.I always harkem back to Diana Princess of Wales and he untimely death because of the media/paparazzi whatever.

Murray needs to produce consistantly and stop playing claycourt waiting tennis on every damn surface and start attacking or he is going to be eating a lot more bagels at the hands of Djoko and many others. :ok:

Our press always talk about the "british no. 1" - not just in tennis, but in many other sports where it is embarrassing.

Does that happen elsewhere? Is Djokovic the "serbian no. 1" or the "world no. 3" in the Serbian press, or just "Djokovic"?

You can ask the same question for the Fedster, Nadal, Roddick, Gasquet et al.

I don't know, but I doubt it very much.

It becomes even more invidious in the UK because our press talks about the british no. 2 and the british no. 3 as well. But by the time you are scraping around in the goo at the bottom of the barrel for the "british no. 2" you come up with Baker ranked at 242 and then Bogdanovic ranked at 255 if you really want to talk about the existence of a "british no. 3". These two athletes seem to be locked in an intense struggle for mediocrity with that whingeing embarassment Josh Goodall at 265 (let's hear it for the british no. 4...) who is a veteran of 3 Wimbledons (prize money approx US$56,000) and has, at the age of 22, yet to win a single ATP/DC singles match.

I know that Baker is recovering from a life-threatening illness (and I wish him well), but that does not mean you can avoid the raw facts that those are three players in their 20s with a grand total of 11 ATP and Davis Cup wins between them (and 11 first round defeats and no wins at Wimbledon between them - let's all ask ourselves whether those were wildcards well spent....).

Oh - and let's not forget, there is a tense battle for "british no. 1" in woman's tennis between O'Brien and Keothavang - nos 118 & 121 respectively, both in their 20's and boasting a total of 29 WTA wins between them.

I agree with you Barrystar. :ok:

Well he spent some teenage years but your style is usually developed on your beginning surfaces which were fast indoor in Scotland.

Either way clay is simply not good for his game ESPECIALLY when he plays passively.

In my opinion I think clay is great to learn on especially if you want to learn patience and to attack.If you a natural attacker then clay is ideal to hone your game.Murray however is a defender which clay is suppose to help but he doesnt show any of it in his game. :shrug:

I occasionally see Roddick referred to as the US No. 1, but not too often.

:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

The kind of reaction we regularly get to Murray losses (or even Murray victories) on here is really grating. He's still young, he's had a number of good achievements, and he's still improving. He had two Masters Series semifinals last year before going out with a bad injury and then missed a lot of big tournaments. Even after dropping those semifinal points, he is now at #20 and has a lot of room to improve - so I wouldn't say it's all that bad.

You may not like his style, you may not like his attitude, but the glee taken here (after losing to the number 3 player in the world - he's not the only one to do that) really shows something else, and it's not pleasant. I've seen some somewhat similar posts about Nadal as well, though I didn't think it was as strong even there.

It isn't Andy's fault if he's being hyped by the media. Other people are being hyped in their countries as well (e.g. Gasquet) but are still recognized as good players. When I go to this board I don't hope to see threads started to bash any player, be it Nadal, Murray, Federer, Djokovic or anyone else. In my opinion the tone in discussing players whom posters do not particularly enjoy has gone down steadily, with statements of opinion (e.g. "I don't think Murray has the game to be consistently in the top - at least yet") being instead phrased as fact ("WIth his game he can never beat Djokovic").

I'm not saying that there isn't usually a valid point underneath what is being said, and a worthwhile discussion eventually ensues, since there will always be a voice of reason in the thread. But I find it frustrating how often such a voice of reason seems to be needed on here these days.

Sorry if I have overreacted to this thread, which is probably not the worst of its kind it has to be said, but this has been grinding on me for a while and there's no point in not saying anything. I've been very busy this year so not coming to the board as often as I used to, but when I do have some time and come across these types of discussions, I just find myself wondering why I even bother. :shrug:


And, more on topic, both Fed and Djoko have now said in the last few months on how talented Andy is and how he should be there right at the top. Whether or not this is true, I doubt either of them is in the pay of the British media ... :shrug:

I did not wait for Djoko's comment to realise that Murray was too passive.

I created a thread last year : Murray winnning ugly which I am aware caused controversy amongst British fans here. But it really pained me to see a young player playing so negative. Now on the bright side, I think Murray made some progress and now tries to be more agressive but it does not come naturally and the better players will expose that.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Centre_Court/in...?showtopic=2967

I just can't get excited about Andy Murray to even make a comment when he loses a match.

Based on his comments in Valencia this week, he can't even get excited about himself, or his own game. So there's no reason for me to get excited that's for sure.

roflmao

I thought this was very funny too,but also rather sad as it shows Murray in a bad light as a very arrogant young man.

I'm sorry to jump on him and I hope this doesn't offend,but what part of "You need to hit your forehand harder" doesn't he understand.

He only has to look to Nadal as an example,who hits with aggression,with net clearance,to know he can hit more purposefully.
He has a semi-western grip,and hits very low to high,hence his looping style.

Now we can say it's his personality to be defensive,but surely if he has been reminded of the simple tactic of when he steps onto or past the baseline,and he is balanced,then unload.

He knows his angles well,so what's the problem with injecting some more pace now and then.
I'm not expecting him to be the next James Blake,but to look at the court percentages,and jump on anything short.

I agree and the thing is,he has great defensive skills to turn a situation around in a point at any time which should make him a great weapon in itself.But he is just too passive :( I just feel his arrogance and lack of wanting to add power or aggression to his game is such a waste of his talent. :(

Murray yet again in a dwang last night.Fortnetly for him his opponent was injured or else it would have been a straight sets mauling. :unsure: I watched that match and Murray actually is not suited for clay at all.Too many dropshots,lack of patience,lots of swearing and no power play,but lots of variety.Its nice having variety but when you cant string it together on an altogether demanding surface combined with a bad attitude,you are going to be in the dwang :rolleyes:

Lets see how he pans out next round! :ok: