John Higgins (Sco) beat Matthew Stevens (Wal)
Ryan Day (Wal) v Michael Judge (Ire)
Ding Junhui (Chn) v Marco Fu (HK)
Stephen Hendry (Sco) v Mark Allen (NI)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (Eng) v Liu Chuang (Chn)
Mark Williams (Wal) v Mark Davis (Eng)
Stephen Lee (Eng) v Joe Swail (NI)
Ken Doherty (Ire) v Liang Wenbo (Chn)
Shaun Murphy (Eng) v Dave Harold (Eng)
Ali Carter (Eng) v Barry Hawkins (Eng)
Mark Selby (Eng) v Mark King (Eng)
Peter Ebdon (Eng) v Jamie Cope (Eng)
Neil Robertson (Aus) v Nigel Bond (Eng)
Stephen Maguire (Sco) v Anthony Hamilton (Eng)
Steve Davis (Eng) v Stuart Bingham (Eng)
Graeme Dott (Sco) v Joe Perry (Eng)

Today was the first day's action from the Crucible, with John Higgins producing a good victory over Matthew Stevens. Stevens is always dangerous at the Crucible, and should have two titles to his name already, but has been off-form in just about every other event for a long time, and I feel he may never rediscover his previous heights.

In terms of an overall winner, I would suggest that it will come from a group of 5 - the older stalwarts Higgins and O'Sullivan and the young guns Maguire, Murphy (sadly) and Selby. Robertson and Ding have more talent than Murphy and Selby, but are not quite mentally with it just yet and not in the greatest of form as a result - in fact I see Ding's fellow Asian Marco Fu taking him out in round 1.

Finally, although I'm far, far from being a fan of Graeme Dott, he is currently suffering from depression and has not won a match in 15 attempts, so would be nice to see him do something here - which isn't impossible given his relatively kind draw.

It's that time of year again.

It was sad to see Matthew Stevens go out Wise. He really does/did have the ability to be World Champ as he has shown a couple of times in the past.

I seem to remember you having it in for Murphy last year. What is it again that you have against the guy?

I'd agree with your group of players who can win it, but I would add Ding. He is very dangerous.

I'm hoping for an O' Sullivan, Murphy or Maguire win, but will be chanting mainly for Ronnie. :ok:

Yep, shame about Stevens, but a bit like Jimmy White, he had his chances to win it - he held a commanding lead over Williams in one final, although that year was the year of the Williams comeback and I never quite expected him to see it out, and also against Murphy which he should undoubtedly have won.

That's actually part of the reason for my dislike of Murphy, since that year I felt he got a ridiculously lucky run of the balls in the final whenever he played a poor shot. With the standards of snooker really high at the moment, luck plays an important part and I feel he gets too much of it - coupled with his smarmy attitude and incessant religious preaching, he's never gonna be my favourite player, although he is clearly one of the contenders for any tournament right now.

I'd like to agree with you on Ding who looked like he was about to become the next Stephen Hendry a couple of years back, but ever since the sad treatment he received off Ronnie's 'fans' in a 10-3 thrashing to the Rocket at Wembley, he's never quite reestablished his consistency, so I don't see him in the main band of contenders. A dark horse though for sure and I'd like to see a QF showdown between him and Higgins.

Elsewhere, Neil Robertson, another dark horse, looks set to clinch his match with Bond, Nigel Bond, at 9-4 up and Stephen Lee and Peter Ebdon are both behind after the first session in their matches with Swail and Cope respectively - Lee in particular looks in real trouble at 7-2 down.

Yep - Agree very much with your overview of the event there.

I of course want Ronnie to win it but maybe not as much as Selby to lose it!

OMG NO JIMMY WHITE! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Not the same without Jimmy. He's my favourite, grew up watching the Whirlwind and Steve Davis. Respect to Davis for still being able to qualify for this event though. :bow:

There are different kind sof players, and Dott is one of those who won through determination and tenacity, which i felt should be credied and good for him :ok: Hope he does well, sorry to hear he is depressed. :(

I am a fan of potters, but tbh it is boring after a while watching frames fly away without any battle, so I've always respected the battlers and tacticians. I like Ebdon for his mettle and ability to scrap, and when he won he was superb. Although I can see why folks moan about him but they can't not respect him surely? I'd liek to see soem vintage Ebdon. :ok:

Another great battler to bet on to win the scrappy frame is Crafty Ken Doherty. I do enjoy watching him, psychologically he is tough as nails and can beat players with the better tools because of that. :ok:

Ebdon and Doherty matches are always excellent to watch. I have lost count how many time Doherty fights back from a long way back.

In my original post I forgot to say how much I'd love to see Steve Davis go far!!

I'd like to see no one win moreso than Steve Davis. What a lovely chap he is. A great sportsman :bow:

I don't see it though cos I think that the new kids have bigger weapons, better eysight and more stamina. Plus they play a more attacking game developed by Hendry, and there are some big cue powerers out there - both much less Steve's kind of game . Folks don't seem to appreciate that snooker is tiring mentally and also phsyically - it might not invoving running but it you know, best of 19-33 frames is no picnic, it's hard to focus that long and if you feel unwell or tno quite on top you can easily lose what you should have won. I also saw Steve talking a few years back and he said no matter how sharp and fit he was, as he ages his eye to hand co-ordination and visual sharpness has deterirorated as it does in us all and that has quite an effect.

Mind you it was great a few years back when against the odds Davis won a tournie that he hadn't won for 10 yrs - I think it may have been around 1996 and the Masters? - I will go check in a mo. He wasn't expected to win and was called past it back then. I remember it well cos I had a friend. round drinking whisky and we cheered our heads off in drunken fashion. :D

Btw on Doherty pinching frames he shouldn't - if you ever bet on betfair you can do frame by frame. I wouldn't normally do that, but last year I just told Geroge to bet on Doherty to win all frames he was the outisder on oddswise and he made a profit. :ok:

Here's Sunday's results (best of 19 frames)

Peter Ebdon (Eng) 10-9 Jamie Cope (Eng)
22-89 48-60 0-86 (86) 94-4 (50) 7-75 (64) 66-4 (58) 0-75 (75) 93-4 (87) 107-22 (103) 13-74 106-0 (73) 1-126 (126) 83-37 (58) 52-35 122-0 (109) 0-101 (101) 58-27 20-78 (78) 70-46

Ali Carter (Eng) 10-9 Barry Hawkins (Eng)
0-106 (51) 0-71 (71) 64-65 (Carter 56) 59-41 67-43 72-43 61-37 69-47 59-1 71-41 13-52 2-60 52-71 (52, 71) 76-49 128-0 (128) 46-58 29-68 44-84 (59) 69-46

Stephen Lee (Eng) 4-10 Joe Swail (NI)
96-1 (96) 8-65 (65) 8-67 69-49 57-66 45-87 (54) 6-58 (53) 23-109 (61) 29-68 117-12 (75) 0-71 6-64 61-46 1-72

Neil Robertson (Aus) 10-4 Nigel Bond (Eng)
74-14 (59) 95-0 (70) 78-50 (52) 16-79 84-48 (70) 84-0 (80) 0-125 (125) 64-32 65-23 33-73 (67) 114-7 (63) 57-61 (56 Robertson) 68-8 (57) 84-0 (84)

I didn't see much of these but Ebdon managed to squeak through in the decider despite never having a lead in that match. :ok: Carter finally won.

Pleased for Swail, I quite like him, at least i used to years back. Stephen Lee amazes me with how badly he can play, I don't get him at all, but I gues she does have the best cue power in the game. He often looks disinterested, and he does seem to spend a lot of time having children given his young age. I remeber years back when he came onto the scene and showed promise but he doesn't seem to do much, not when I watch anyway. :unsure:

Davis got knocked out :( :(

Mark Williams looks to be playing well considering his recent form though :ok: :ok: I would love to see the Welshman back to his best.

Drinks are on you Tenez :cheers: Selby out to Mark King - biggest shock so far of the tournament.

Elsewhere, young Northern Irish player unfortunately choked after outplaying Stephen Hendry. He lost 10-9, and the winner of the very tight match between Fu and Ding will be big favourite to beat Hendry in the next round - they're locked at 5-5 but like I said before, I fancy Fu to edge this.

Another annoying match was the Ebdon vs Cope one - I echo the sentiments of respect for Ebdon, a player I like, but he got lucky in this match, even if Cope's recklessness cost him in the end.

Was sad to see Steve Davis lose to a complete nobody, especially after his comeback from 8-4 to 8-8, but the fact that he's still going so strong is amazing testament to his ability.

Btw, SB, re: Stephen Lee, he was arrested a while back for dealing weed - to me he looks like a very obvious candidate for someone who smokes too much skunk, why explains the lacklustre play he's been producing for a while now.

Cheers Wise. For some reasons I can't quite get to like Selby who reminds me Djoko. 2 great players in ther own sport but I don;t really enjoy their art.

I was also glad to see Bingham get over his choking feat to cross the line versus Davis. I hate to see someone choking badly. I admit I am a bit of a choker myself to some extend but also a firm believer that choking go through phases and is not something that necessarily sticks to you for life. In fact what I like about Federer is that he could have been considered a choker early in his career but overcame that phase to become an amazing champion ( trust me ;))!

My main upset in this tourny this far is seeing Allen crumble over the crossing line. He is young and very talented but those kind of losses can stick for life.

Perhaps that explains his excess weight i.e. the "munchies". The guy is grossly overweight - don't know how he can even get some of the shots with his belly in the way :P Unfortunately I've never liked him. I can't believe he's a baby making machine :o

Ding dong Fu is gone ;)

Would love to see Mark Williams get back to his best again - he deserves it and hopefully he is on his way. Glad Peter came through, love him :wub:

Would love one of the oldies to win it i.e. Mark W, Higgins, Ronnie or Peter. ANYONE EXCEPT HENDRY :tsk:

Wouldn't mind Ding from the new ones, but no way do I want Murphy or Dott or anyone else to win it!

Great tournament so far - much better than Monte Carlo tennis - that is so :coffee: :yawn: so far.

Snooker is a very easy game to choke in. I still have nightmares about choking on an easy black which would have got me my first ever century break, but in more physical sports like tennis I very rarely choke because I have less time to think. I didn't see the Bingham match but would bank on him going out next round.

You have good taste QJ - Murphy, Dott, Lee and Hendry are my least favourite players in the game. As great a player as Hendry is, I could never appreciate him just because he was SUCH a boring character.

The Ding vs Fu match was great, and like you say there've been loads of good matches so far in the first round - lost count already of the number of 10-9s. Hopefully Ding will send Hendry home next round.

As for Stephen Lee, I was watching him in a tournament recently and when he leant over the side of the table to play a shot his ass literally took up the whole of the god damn TV screen. Glad he's out just so I won't have to suffer that fate again. :sicky:

century break (or close)? excellent! :ok:

I play twice a week and only managed a 40! :( not even that 39 to be honest. The sad thing is the more I play, the worse I get.

Agree with your choking/time theory. In tennis you release energy as well which helps rid of the negative energy.

Yup - was on 96 and flying, had an easy black off the spot (not straight but still very easy) and instead of knocking it in to get on the red I went all out for the century, tried to roll it in and barely hit the jaws. Went straight home afterwards. I've never come close since, still make the odd frame-winning break of 70 odd, but don't play regularly enough anymore to get over 40 very often. Also agree about adrenaline - boxing is actually my main sport in terms of competing and you never see much choking in that, not because of the style or whatever but because it's so non-stop you're too pumped up to get nervous.

Anyway, in today's play at the Crucible... it's the rise of the East. :yikes:

After Ding's win yesterday, Ronnie played a less well known Chinese 17 year old prodigy... he went 4-0 up and it looked like it might be embarrassing, but Liu Chang got it back to 4-4 before losing the final frame of the session. Ken Doherty then got dismissed by another one, Luang Wenbo, 10-5, which means he'll be out of the top 16 next season. Anyone else think in 5-10 years these Chinese players will be dominating this tournament?

Murphy won easily :moody: but Dott is out, losing to Joe Perry.

Bloody hell, didn't knwo that! :o I think you coudl be right :D

I think my maximum break of all time was about 27 :lol: It's a tough game, I tend to play more for recreation now given the costs o fthe snooker club these days pe rhour and the fact that it is always busy when you wan t to go.

Well, the second round has started and Ding is somehow losing to old man Hendry 6-2 - really hope he can come back here.

On the positive side, Ali Carter is winning by the same scoreline against Murphy, always thought this would be difficult for the tubby one. Hopefully Carter can keep it together here.

John Higgins was looking very good against Stevens and at the start of his match with Ryan Day, but the Welshman has come back and they're tied at 8-8, this should be a good finish.

Ebdon has the advantage against King, 9-6 up. :clap:

Anyone wanna make a fool of themselves and go for a prediction as to how this turns out?

John Higgins (Sco) v Ryan Day (Wal)
Ding Junhui (Chn) v Stephen Hendry (Sco)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (Eng) v Mark Williams (Wal)
Joe Swail (NI) v Liang Wenbo (Chn)
Shaun Murphy (Eng) v Ali Carter (Eng)
Mark King (Eng) v Peter Ebdon (Eng)
Neil Robertson (Aus) v Stephen Maguire (Sco)
Stuart Bingham (Eng) v Joe Perry (Eng)

Higgins vs Hendry
Ronnie vs Wenbo
Carter vs Ebdon
Maguire vs Perry

Higgins vs Ronnie
Carter vs Maguire

Ronnie vs Maguire

Winner: Ronnie :unsure:

How could I resist? :)


John Higgins (Sco) v Ryan Day (Wal)
Ding Junhui (Chn) v Stephen Hendry (Sco)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (Eng) v Mark Williams (Wal)
Joe Swail (NI) v Liang Wenbo (Chn)
Shaun Murphy (Eng) v Ali Carter (Eng)
Mark King (Eng) v Peter Ebdon (Eng)
Neil Robertson (Aus) v Stephen Maguire (Sco)
Stuart Bingham (Eng) v Joe Perry (Eng)

Day vs Hendry
Ronnie vs Wenbo
Murphy vs Ebdon
Maguire vs Perry

Hendry vs Ronnie
Ebdon vs Maguire

Ronnie vs Maguire

Winner: Maguire

I have a feeling about Maguire. I've thought he might end up champion in the last few years but he hasn't put it together at the right time. Maybe this time. :unsure:

Didn't take too long for our predictions to go down the pan - I had Higgins reaching the semis and he lost to Day... though my unbiased prediction of Carter to oust Murphy did come off. :clap:

Like in Hendry's two previous matches, he will lose as long as his opponent does not choke or play badly - but given that this is Day's first QF at the Crucible and he may have had his big win in the Higgins match, I'm not too optimistic.

Murphy's loss makes Maguire big favourite to reach the final from that half of the draw - just noticed that he's whitewashed Neil Robertson in their first session. :yikes: Ronnie is 5-3 up on Williams in what apparently has been an excellent match.

Oh and it's been said before but Michaela Tabb - :tongue:

Your taste in women seems very similar to mine ! :P

Yeah the O'Sullivan/Williams looks like a real classic battle of the former champions (my two favourite players as well) .

I think when it comes to Michaela Tabb they should relax their referee uniform policy. :yep: :yep:

I can see...that.....

:)

Do you think Michaela would want to work on our trolley ?

:lol: Why not, I could be open to ithat idea myself :lol:

Great minds and all... although not difficult to be fair :blush: generally my selection criteria is non-existent, as long as they're not English. :P

O'Sullivan and Williams shared their session so Ronnie retains a 9-7 lead going into the final session tomorrow. Hope Ronnie comes through this as I'm really excited about the prospect of him facing the Chinese player Liang in the QF, who was playing superbly in taking a 6-2 lead against the likeable Swail.

Genius from Ronnie today with a fantastic 147!!!

It's moments like that which make me wonder how this guy only has two World Championships.

A true magician Ronnie :bow: :bow: :bow:

Know what you mean but he doesn't have more than two titles because a. he lost it mentaly in the past at times b. he can't play consistently like that all the time c. he's a good front runner, not a great battler back. Much as I love Ronnie and his genius, for me he lacks the full tactical battling match player characteristics that others have. And when the wheel fall off the cart he has no back up pln, although I dare say eh is improving. Smashing player and a nice guy though :ok:

Oh I agree totally. As great a ball potter and break builder that he is, he isn't the complete player that Stephen Hendry used to be. All the flaws you point out are apparent in his game, and you can see them cost him when he loses. It's just those magic moments from the magician that make me smile and curse at the same time! ;)

Yep. :D He has great charisma though. I used to fancy Ronnie btw, I had his poster. Not sure if that is normal but. :D

I used to loathe Hendry cos he was such a po faced misery guts. Now I am in total admiration of him because his achievments are amazing and he is the one who changed the game, first real attacking break builder. I must say he played a safety shot once and I think ti si one of the best I have ever seen and his long potting, well it's just amzing. :bow:

I know the 'consistency vs talent' debate has been done before and is completely subjective, but I'd certainly beg to differ on Hendry being more complete than Ronnie. I think that when Ronnie's on form, he does everything better than Hendry apart from maybe long potting (talking about Hendry's peak here), and that he's easily the better player. It's his mental side which lets him down, frequently, and Hendry is definitely the better match player which will see him go down as the "greater" player.

Just saw the 147 - brilliant stuff. The most impressive thing about it is that he made it look like it wasn't even difficult to make the break, his cueball control was that good. Genius. :bow:

We agree again Wise. :coffee:

Though It's great to dominate one era, like Davis and Hendry did in their time, I firmly believe they could have done so only because it was "in their time". Ronnie is without a doubt a better player than Hendry and had Hendry been exposed to better players early on, he may not have developed this invicibility aura he had. We saw for instance how Davis's was affected by Hendry and how Hendry's coudl have been affected by Ronnie if he had been a bit more stable (yet I believe Ronnie leads in the H2H). With the Chinese playing the game now, we might see a lot of new names coming soon and dominance of Hendry or Davis kind is likely to be a thing of the past as the run of the ball plays for quite a bit in snooker. With better players around, mathplayer like Hendry become more vulnerable and the close matches they used to win then, they end up losing them now. I doubt Renshaw would have won Wimbledon 7 times had he played in this current era, same applies to Hendry.

Oh I agree. But I do feel that Steve and Ronnie dominated in their time because they were arguably the bst in their time in more respects than Ronnie is today. For example, better focus, better mentality, more consitentcy and better matchplay and scrapping ability. The one thing that disssppoints me and my partner about Ronnieis we don't often see him win from a deficit, or scrap out a frame. It seems that fi he is on he wins, if he;s off he loses and part of a great sportsman is not just talent and genius but how to find a way. I think Davis and Hendry were better at that. I still iek Ronnie though but I can see why he hasn't dominated an era he shoudl have and I don't put it all down to the competition. although standards are obviously much higher these days.

Speaking of older players and dominace, look at poor Jimmy White. A top class player who was a bit mentally weak and a bit unlucky. Very consistent to be 6 times runner up and never win this! :o He is in m ymind better in his era than some of the players today are. He had Davis and Hendry to contend with also which could explain a little bit. My fave player and a sad ommission this year. :(

Yes but Hendry has the GOAT in titles so that will surely be a good reason to call him the greatest, he was dominant and ahead fo the pack and it is not liek he fluke dhis wins or got lucky.

That's exactly what I said. Hendry will be regarded as the greater player because he has the most titles, but for me there's no question over who the better player is. Sadly Ronnie does not have the champions' mentality that Hendry did or the same ferocious desire to win.

That said, Hendry did get lucky several times at the Crucible, in 1992 when White choked outrageously from 14-8 ahead and again in 1994 when White got a kick on an easy black off its spot which caused him to miss it. That was in the deciding frame and White was closing in on victory. Given that White was notoriously bad at handling his nerves in the finals, we could also say that Hendry got lucky to play him in 4 finals... and in two others he played journeyman Nigel Bond in the final and a pre-peak Ebdon.

John Virgo once said of Hendry,and O'sullivan,that if they played there best all of the time,Ronnie would be the best.

Trouble is he never can sustain his head from tournament to tournament,and so Hendry is the best.

It all goes back to every sport,you need all the qualities to work in unison to make the claim of the best.

How many times on here have we mentioned tennis players like Rios,and Safin for example who have outrageous talent,but are totally crazy.

I'm a huge fan of Ronnie's game,and arguably no one apart from Hendry could have forced that white off the nearly straight black into the pink and red off the bottom rail.
His talent is supreme,but he hasn't reached those heights enough.

I do disagree with the fact though that people say Hendry is more consistency than talent.Maybe Ronnie has better feel for those slower tempo shots,but it's the average shot time of Ronnie that gives him that more fluid look.
The Hendry cue action is more deliberate,but holds up under pressure better.

In the balls around the black spot,I would give a slight edge to the Rocket,but Hendry has the better all round game.

Conclusion "The Best" :ok:

According to Jimmy's own admission, This missed black was not a kick but a rush of blood. Still I agree that Hendry had to face a great talent with nerves of crystal.

The nber of centuries coudl be a good reflexion of the level of snooker over the years since recorded 1990. Clearly the level has gone up if not doubled since the early 90s.

I Year # High Break Maker(s)
2007 68 144 Allister Carter
2006 46 140 Ronnie O'Sullivan
2005 63 147 Mark J Williams
2004 55 145 Joe Perry
2003 52 147 Ronnie O'Sullivan
2002 68 145 Matthew Stevens
2001 53 140 Joe Swail
2000 54 143 Matthew Stevens
1999 53 142 John Higgins
1998 59 143 John Higgins and Jimmy White
1997 39 147 Ronnie O'Sullivan
1996 48 144 Tony Drago and Peter Ebdon
1995 30 147 Stephen Hendry
1994 35 143 Alan McManus
1993 35 144 Steve Davis
1992 25 147 Jimmy White
1991 31 140 Jimmy White
1990 18 140 John Parrott