I guess some of you will have seen the News of the World's report on this man's alleged extra-curricular activities this weekend: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/. If it's him it defies belief really.

Does anyone think he should go for this?

What if the much-loved Etienne de Villiers were in the same position?

For my tuppenceworth - I've got no issues one way or another with the man, who seems like a highly competent bully who may be in the right job or not. If it's true but Mosley has the chutzpah to keep his head up and continue do his job it's difficult to see why he should be forced to go against his will.

Extremely distasteful though it is, the episode was clearly a 'private' one and, whilst I am not saying that it is normal to have a skeleton of that size in your cupboard, making judgments about others' private lives is always a bit of a slippery slope. I agree that many people (perhaps 'most decent people') would be so embarrassed they'd want to slink off and hide, but if he is not one of them you've got to ask what effect it has on his day job. Having said that, much, of course, depends upon how big an issue it is made in the media or with F1's corporate or governmental partners - if serious resources have to be devoted to handling this issue, or some of them are very unhappy about it, then its significance may have crossed the line.

My main caveat to the above is that F1's increasing appearance in 'muslim' countries like Bahrain, Malaysia, and (to a lesser extent) Turkey may add pressure to his position that would not have been there a few years ago. It is not likely that many in Singapore will be hugely impressed either.

:lmaao:

I saw this on The Pit Lane too

I hope it forces his retirement from the FIA. At least we know he has a hobby for his twilight years :dohh:

roflmao roflmao roflmao

Sorry but it is just laughable! Of course I am anti Nazi and all that but this kind ofo thing ... well what can you say? Especailly given who his dad is ... oh dear! :lmaao: Sorry!

Not defending this at all but I bet you he isn't the only one who does this kind of thing. And I suppose if they sack him they should 'sack' that Royal who dressed as a Nazi too. And they should have fired my boss at Customs cos he dressed up as Hitler and some of his team as Nazis. :yikes: I never saw this guy in the saem light again and couldn't wait to leave his team. He was a complete and utter w*nker. Doing very well these days I hear. :rolleyes:

I expect thIs bloKe would resign surely with emabrassment?

As an aside, love the way the News of the World over sensationlised evertyhing. They refer to Oswald Mosley like eh was Hitler himself. Now I'm no fan but it is fair to say it was a bit more complex than that. From what I recall was more of a craeerist opportunist in politcs than anything else, and also he was largely ignored and struggled to get the high postions. so kept changing tack. He was Conservative MP, then Indepedent, Labour, a Fabian supporter, I think he founded the New Party and the intention wasn't to be a Nazi as it were, then he kind of jumped on bandwagons and was also into what Mussolini was suggesting. And back then he wasn't the only one. It's alwasy more complex than it looks. And he was form nobility and backed by royalty at times too.

add to your list of people to sack the owner of the Express newspaper group, who reportedly goosestepped around his office making heil hitler signs. :rolleyes: The NOTW seems more outraged by the fact that some people are in to BDSM - jeez, i hope they never see any of suzi's cartoons :P

If they do will she get sacked too? :lol:

Oh yeah I forgot about that goose-stepping bloke! I bet he never got sacked :rolleyes: Makes me laugh how some folks who have aprodied Hitler in humour have gotten into more trouble. Have you ever seen Mel Brooks film with Springtime For Hitlerl in it? Hilarious:lol:

This is terrible when one thinks about it. It's clearly funny but the real Nazis here are the Media and should be punished for publishing such material. It destroys someones life and raises the question of privacy which we all need. The reasons for one to fall in the grips of S&M are certainly strange and complex but can't be exposed to the public eye. Doctors and psys are not allowed to divulge our sicknesses or phantasms. The media should abide by the rules as well. We can’t prevent to have this kind of things on the net but papers and channels are on some regulations over what they can publish and I really wonder why this kind of stories are allowed.

Now where did I leave my whip? :whip:

well, you've gotta assume it's hypocritical ito the extreme from those who have written the story - i'm pretty sure that these journalists aren't all "missionary" men and women who have never cheated, lied, used hookers or done anything remotely kinky in the bedroom :rolleyes: as far as i'm concerned what someone chooses to do in their private life - especially in the bedroom - is none of my concern or anyone else's for that matter. (so long as it's all consensual of course) And i can't imagine that it has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not he can do his job :shrug:

indeed and the destructing effect on the "customer" is terrible.

I'll think you'll find thats mine! :P

*looks over shoulder for lurking reporters* :hide:

:yep:

they must have been rubbing their hands in glee with this one - and they are the ones who will have created the most amount of damage now..

Well I agree about privacy to an extent, but given the disatasteful circumstances involved I think it's a bit more than a romp in the bedroom with a whip or whatever he does. So I think we should know, it's just how they tell us and what happens to other folks who do similar that concerns me. I don't feel sorry for him at all, if you are going to do stuff like this then expect the worst or don't do it. :ok:

lol. according to the picture, looks like you lent it to max!

:blink:

was that you in the picture giving him a good whipping pebs??? :P

(only slightly libellous there i think - please don't sue me :giggle: )

no..no... I work in a school, honest.... :unsure:

bloody NOTW... ratting me out...

well, they're known as News of the Screws for a reason - honestly, some people are just obsessed ;)

As I've said, I think it should come down to Mosley's brass neck - his colleagues and associates should be entitled to treat it as an irrelevant private matter and if they do (which looks likely) and he has got the balls to weather the storm and stand up in the public eye and get on with his job I don't think he should be harried out of it by a prurient newspaper and those who dislike him using this as an excuse.

In a way I agree with Tenez that publication of this is pretty nasty - but I would not want to censor the press

:whip: :admin:

Neither would I :) It may be a lie for all we know, or the press may be out to get him because of who he is.

Do what you like among consenting adaults in your own bedroom but really, anyone who gets off on acting out concentration camp entrants inspection and abuse scenes is one sick motherf*cker with a captial M. :sicky:

Quite so - the reality for prisoners in such camps was to be entirely within the power of a monster who did not recognise or respect any limits as to what he might do with you. To try and mimic that in the way that MM is alleged to have done is bizarre IMHO.

I think you made a valid point before about motorsport in Eastern climes barrystar

I wonder if there was alcohol involved or whether it was just bdsm ;)

Indeed, and I find it distrubing. Then again aspects of this kind fo sexual practice are disturbing in many settings, whether Nazis or prisoners are involved or not. I mean folks fake Mediaeval torture for example. I'd love to say more but I must go out now so laters.

What's the New's of the Worlds justification for printing this, other than the fact that they can and presumably sells newspapers?
Max Mosley may have an unbelievably strange sex life, but so what? if everyone involved is a consenting adult, what's the big deal-apart from the this paper gives and endlessly prurient public what they desire.
Pretending to be a Nazi is not the same as being an active Nazi, otherwise most of the cast of 'Allo allo' would be in big trouble. Sub-dom role play may seem endlessly peculiar, that doesn't mean it's wrong, if being tasteless made something wrong-i doubt many of us, including me, would be going to heaven.
The connection to Oswald Mosley is merely the icing on the cake from the NOTW's point of view, allowing them to draw endless but irrelevance parrellels with his father. But in truth the sins of the father are not passed to the son, or the Sun or any other tacky tabloid

the words "nail" and "head" spring to mind :ok: the same justification for printing allegations about football players having "sordid" orgies, or in fact anything about famous people's sex lives.

mind you, i think the days are long gone that newspapers actually printed stories that are truly "in the public interest" :rolleyes:

The public interest is now defined as 'what interests the public'.
Remember five minutes ago those 'apologies' from the Daily Express etc to the
McCann's, relating to Madeleine, can you imagine what the McCann's went through seeing in print allegations that they'ld killed Madeleine or even sold her- now that's real cruelty.
The fact that newspapers can peddle the kind of hurtful stuff they do, and then take a moral line on what some sad old perv gets up to is astonishing.

In a funny way, I think that there is more justification in publishing the stories of footballer's orgies than MM's alleged pecadillos - although the prurient way in which both are done does suggest that public interest is not at the root of the reports.

There is something of the zeitgeist about footballers, the hero-worship of them, and the preparedness of some young girls to get drunk with and shagged by them (as well as pretty much anyone else it seems). Such reports get closer to an observation of something going on our society of general interest (celebrity culture, drunkenness, and promiscuity, the link between them and the possibility for misunderstandings resulting in allegations of assault).

Married businessmen in their 60's paying for sick but consensual and private sex sessions with 'high-class' hookers in Chelsea is far less obviously of public interest (unless they are also Archbishops).

Mosley asked to drop Bahrain trip


Motorsport boss Max Mosley has been advised not to travel to this weekend's Bahrain Grand Prix in the wake of allegations about his private life.

Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone told the Times the Bahraini royal family "wouldn't like" the president of governing body the FIA to attend.

"He would take all the ink away from the race and put it on something which is nobody else's business," he said.

An FIA spokesman said the organisation could not comment.

But he did add that Mosley was meeting his lawyers on Tuesday.

It is understood Mosley had been planning to attend this weekend's race before the scandal broke.

The allegations, which were published in a Sunday newspaper, are likely to lead to pressure for Mosley to resign.

The 67-year-old, the son of former British Union of Fascists leader Oswald Mosley, has been FIA president since 1993.

Mosley, who is not an employee of the FIA and whose role is unpaid, has been a prominent figure in European politics, pushing through a series of road-safety measures, and many of the world's leading car manufacturers are involved in F1.

A representative for the road-car manufacturers involved in F1 said they had no comment at this stage.

F1 teams have no direct influence on Mosley's position - he is elected by the FIA membership of national automobile clubs and motorsport bodies and his latest four-year term does not expire until October 2009.

The body that can bring direct pressure on to Mosley is the FIA senate, which is made up of senior representatives of the national automobile and sporting clubs.

Below that are two FIA world councils, one representing the automotive industry, and one from the sporting side.

A spokeswoman for the Royal Automobile Club, Britain's representative on the world council, said the organisation had no comment.

"These are allegations only and we wouldn't comment on rumour and speculation - and certainly not on people's private lives," she said.

BBC 5 Live motor racing commentator David Croft said he understood the world council had given Mosley its full backing and members had offered their personal support.

Actually I think this has much more relevance than footballers having affairs which does not interest me in the slightest. I don't care if it is consensual, the problem is this man's political family background and that aside, the distastful and offensive way he is getting his kicks. He is doing this by renacting vile scenes from the holocaust concentration camps, now why is that? What does that say about him and what does it say about us if we ignore that? Nothing good believe me. And I doubt many involved in the holocaust or of Jewish or other origin persecuted by the Nazis are going to feel able to simply dismiss this as okay because it involved consenting adults. Suppose he was re-enacting scenes of black people being beaten by slave masters with nooses everyhwere, or doing something that was offensive to our more recent ethnic monirites? How would folks then feel?

I doubt his sexual thrills would be so great if he were really walking through the gates of Dachau, about to be interogated, humilaited, abused and left to work and starve to death sleeping in straw and his own excrement, surounded by rats and vile disease, and maybe being experimented on without any anaestetic by the Mengele types. Do these folks not think? Sorry but with all that history adn suffering behind what he is acting out, I can't see how anyone with a normal moral conscience could do it. :unsure:

This is of course all assuming he did do as it said, I have no idea and no knowledge of the sources. But if it is true then there is something sick and seriously wrong here and he's given the press the ammo they need to bring him down and label him a Nazi , and I have no sympathy, (although he isn't the only one I'm sure but two wrongs don't make a right).

Not being an expert in S&M, I swear M. Justice :rolleyes: , I very much doubt any of this circus going on has much to do with re-enacting Nazism. And not having seen the video, he might as well be on the receiving end as well and the papers are very mean to draw a parallel with Nazism. I agree with BT that what his father did has not much to do with him. I just don't understand those sensation papers and their audience.

Well I don't know what happened but they described it like that. He pretends to be going into a concentration camp and lets them search him for lice etc and abuse him. I don't think folks should be judged by their family generally, but given the links to Nazis of his family then it is all rather dodgy, and why do it if you are desperately trying to shake off your father's reputation? :shrug: If you dress up as Nazi and act like one then what kind f consulsions are the papers expected to draw? And whether the press are unkind or not , I am sure that if me or my neighbours did that kind of thing it wouldn't look too good on us - maybe we'd even get prosecuted? :shrug: I'm sure someone somewhere could fidn a reason and if they link it to racism then you've had it these days.

Acting and killing is very different. I acted "indians and cowboys" when I was a kid but noone died. This S&M thing is a trip about power/submission and they use what best symbolises that. Usually uniforms, etc....but when the papers describe the girl dressed as an Nazi, it's hilarious as i can't remember nazis wearing this kind of fishnet pants....but maybe I am badly documented. ;)

the pictures appear to have disappeared from the NOTW :blink:

But people act out all kinds of weird fantasies in the bedroom - none of them would be prosecuted for them- so long as it's consensual. And i'm not sure he's even done anything illegal - distasteful maybe (if we believe the news of the screws which is always a wee bit dodgy :unsure: ) People act out rape fantasies - doesn't mean they condone rape or even that they are rapists; women dress up as schoolgirls, doesn't mean their partners are paedophiles. :shrug:

You sound like you know quite a bit about this Tenez :D

I appreciate what you say, but kids don't play cowboys and Indians anymore - not that I know of- cos it is frowned upon after what happened to the Indians with their race being virtually wiped out and it's power emasculated. Whether you agree or not with it, this country has become very politicallly correct with regards to what we discourage or ban folks from doing, such as playign with toy guns - I think they are banned at school now, but I used to have one. :unsure: .We discourage things that may be deemed racist or oppressive of others, we don't have golliwogs for eg (again I used to have theml) - I don't think they are even allowed to make Black Jack sweets. So in this kind of framework I expect folks to frown as much on anything related to acting like a Nazi as much as they do with Cowboys v Indians, or anything that goes against the values a society is tryign to promote that's all. :)

No it doesn't but it might. Whatever people act out though, it says something much deeper and darker about them and I find it bizarre and disturbing at times. Some folks might be harmless with it but plenty are not. And I doubt most folks who act these things out have ever been abused sexually or otherwise themselves. If they have then I don;t get it :shrug:

But the thing is those pictures shoudl never have gone out and therefore never would have had a chance to offend anyone. Someone really nasty released them and the Media are the offenders here, not those who like to play through their fantasies. We are blaming the wrong people there. :shrug:

I think a lot of people would like to find out. I take it you are against the media epxosing high profile people's seedy secrets then?

Yes, it's easy money and people should not provide a market for that kind of stuff. I am not sure we can benefit from having pictures of Brown having a w**k :hide: , yet I am sure it would sell well. In the past there was a "market " for the Coliseum. Blood was selling well in the Roman times and though it may be argued that only the form changed since, I like to think people are getting wiser.

Well they did say that the public wanted 'bread and circuses'. My personal view is that I don't really care about famous folks and their private lives, and I don't read gossip mags - unless they are there and I fancy a laugh. There are times though when we hear things about peple in powerful or privilidged positions that I think we have a right to know, or it is in our interest to know. Assuming this is true about this Mosely character, I think it is relevant in the cirsumstances, although nto very pleasant. And I know the press pry a lot but that is parto o life when you are in the spotlight I'm afraid and I think you have to be more responsible or discrete than that. I don't approve of the press making stuff up to be sensational and sell papaers though, but we have no law against ti so what can one do? :shrug:

Defiant Mosley vows to fight on


Max Mosley has pledged to carry on as president of the FIA, motorsport's governing body, despite allegations about his private life.

In a statement, Mosley apologised for any embarrassment caused to the organisation and its members.

But the 67-year-old added that he will open legal proceedings against those who had conducted a "covert investigation" to discredit him.

"I will not allow any of this to impede my commitment to the FIA," he said.

The News of the World carried a report on Sunday claiming Mosley had taken part in a "Nazi-style orgy in a torture dungeon".

The Briton had been advised not to travel to this weekend's Bahrain Grand Prix, with Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone saying the Bahraini royal family "would not like" his attendance in the Kingdom.

In response, Mosley sent the letter to the various presidents of the national FIA clubs, all members of the FIA senate, the World Motor Sport Council and the World Council for Mobility and the Automobile.

He wrote: "From information provided to me by an impeccable high-level source close to the UK police and security services, I understand that over the last two weeks or so, a covert investigation of my private life and background has been undertaken by a group specialising in such things, for reasons and clients as yet unknown. I have had similar but less well-sourced information from France.

"Regrettably you are now familiar with the results of this covert investigation and I am very sorry if this has embarrassed you or the club.

"Not content with publicising highly personal and private activities, which are, to say the least, embarrassing, a British tabloid newspaper published the story with the claim that there was some sort of Nazi connotation to the matter. This is entirely false.

"It is against the law in most countries to publish details of a person's private life without good reason. The publications by the News of the World are a wholly unwarranted invasion of my privacy and I intend to issue legal proceedings against the newspaper in the UK and other jurisdictions.

"I have received a very large number of messages of sympathy and support from those within the FIA and the motor sport and motoring communities generally, suggesting that my private life is not relevant to my work and that I should continue in my role. I am grateful and, with your support, intend to follow this advice.

"I shall now devote some time to those responsible for putting this into the public domain but, above all, I need to repair the damage to my immediate family who are the innocent and unsuspecting victims of this deliberate and calculated personal attack."

Mosley, the son of former British Union of Fascists leader Oswald Mosley, has been FIA president since 1993.

Mosley, who is not an employee of the FIA and whose role is unpaid, has been a prominent figure in European politics, pushing through a series of road-safety measures.

A representative of the road-car manufacturers involved in F1 said they had no comment at this stage.

F1 teams have no direct influence on Mosley's position - he is elected by the FIA membership of national automobile clubs and motorsport bodies and his latest four-year term does not expire until October 2009.

The body that can bring direct pressure on to Mosley is the FIA senate, which is made up of senior representatives of the national automobile and sporting clubs.

Below that are two FIA world councils, one representing the automotive industry, and one from the sporting side.

A spokeswoman for the Royal Automobile Club, Britain's representative on the world council, said the organisation had no comment.

"These are allegations only and we wouldn't comment on rumour and speculation - and certainly not on people's private lives," she said.

BBC 5 Live motor racing commentator David Croft said he understood the world council had given Mosley its full backing and members had offered their personal support.

beeb report

So he denies it. This will be interesting.

SB i'm worried you could be accused of a kind of missionary position of the mind on this.
There's a world of difference between acting a scenario and being caught up in the reality that gameplay may correspond with.
Lets take rape fantasy role play for example. Objectively the act my look almost identical, but the fundamental and profound difference is that actual rape negates the volition of an individual, whereas in a consenting adult sex game those involved are entirely acquiescent and choose to be part of the proceedings.
There is absolutely no immorality involved in acting out a simulated sex scenario.
Human sex is almost inevitably infused and informed by the complex social environments that humans are surrounded with, we would be pretty odd if our sexuality was somehow immune to our environment, our world is multifarious-so are our sexual habits-sex happens in the mind, not just the genitals.