Clinton v Obama

McCain v Roomney

I have a feeling the dice are tricked as often the case when there is so much money/media involved.

What's your view?

Have to say T, i'm almost inexplicably interested in this, maybe i'ts because the beeb, give the primary's so much attention, and as a Radio 4 devote it's pretty much inescapable.
I think you're implied cynicism is entirely justified. We all know that US presidential candidacy and money and media are inextricably linked, BUT i think there is a glimmer of optimism about this campaign (God help me).
The serous money, and interest is on the democratic nominees-Clinton and Obama and either way we will have either the first woman president or the first black president-and symbolically i find that quite profound, and laudable-lets face it-it's about bloody time!
I think Clinton is in danger of overt opportunism initially destroying herself , she sealed her fate by attacking Obama (with a little help from hubby too) and undermining her Iowa prospects.
She's comeback and it will be very interesting to see if she can get the Democratic nomination.
Obama seems politically refreshing- repudiating the old politics, but i guess it's easy to be idealistic in opposition-oh and he's quite popular with Republicans too!

I might be a dreamer and think that someone like Obama could change the lobbying system that is strangling America nowadays but at the same time there is not much choice but keep on hoping. I remember in the 80s when we felt the cold war was inevitably going to end up in a real war, came from the depth of the communist party, to our surprise, Michael Gorbachev. He eased decades of tensions and enabled all the satellite communist countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria etc….to run their own political regime. And all that without blood shed. No mince feat!

I feel America has now reached a dead end similar to what Communist USSR was in the 80s and only an exceptional politician would be able to put it back on the right path. Hilary Clinton would be to me a set back and simply another muppet of those lobbies, GW Bush with a skirt.

It’s now a critical time, and as someone said: “We are all Americans” I am following those election with interest.

i am totally for hillary :ok: :ok:

I am for some reason fascinated by the primaries in the States (although it has taken me a while to work out how exactly the American system works........ :wacko: But i am finding this much more interesting than the last election and 10 times more interesting than the British elections :shrug: I have to admit I quite like Obama - although that could be entirely swayed by his opposition to the Iraq war :unsure:

The BBC does a good "issues guide" so you can find out easily what the main candidates think:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elec...l/democrats.stm

yeah it is fascinating, because of the diversity of the candidates, although i prefer our political system-i think it's far more tuned to the nervous system of the British public (it's all relative i know)
I still think Clinton will get the Democratic nomination though, i'ld rather it was Obama, but she has the money and is still ahead in the polls.
I think McCain for the Republicans, though it's interesting many Republicans really hate the guy-he's considered too 'un Republican' which is precisely why he may be the Democrat's most feared option.
I thnk Clinton will win the Democratic nomination and the presidential election-that's if her hubby doesn't antagonise the electorate any more.

Well Obama is certainly the most radical candidate-and is my choice too-although i think Clinton will win.
Interestingly Ted Kennedy has thrown his considerable political weight behind Obama, but i think that could be counter-productive long term, he may be considered too left wing by middle America, and while he may be seen to shift the Hispanic/migrant workers etc they actually don't think their block vote can be wielded in quite the way some think and historically they don't vote much anyway -statistically speaking.
As for your idealism regarding America i don't see the possibility of a Gorbachev figure emerging at all-Obama has already had to raise millions very fast, and the same 'benefactors' are queuing up behind the other candidates too, they'll expect recompense of some sort, the amounts of money involved are astronomic-i don't know the figures off hand, but they amount to buying concessions.
However it's not hard to imagine that both Clinton and Obama as far more preferable to the standing joke that is Bush.

There si no doubt that Obama will have to payback somehow all this money he is being given and he had no choice to "get dirty" first if he wanted to have a chance to get to Power. This was actually why I like to compare him with Gorbatchov who "had" to be communist to get to the top, yet he was the first to free the markets and the political regime once he got there. When they get there, their real war commences but be it through the capitalism or communism, they have to use existing system.

Like you I always thought Hilary would be already too powerful to lose it...but I cherish the thought that I could be wrong. One factor which maybe allows me to hope is that electing Obama could have a healing effect over some share of the population. They could be hypnotised in voting for something they have feared for decades if not centuries and suddenly realise it could do them a lot of good if they went ahead with it. All in all I m happily surprised to see how close the race is thus far on the democrats side.

so Mitt Romney has stepped aside in the Republican race - here's some excerpts from his speech:

As I said to you last year, conservative principles are needed now more than ever. We face a new generation of challenges, challenges which threaten our prosperity, our security and our future.

I am convinced that unless America changes course, we will become the France of the 21st century - still a great nation, but no longer the leader of the world, no longer the superpower. And to me, that is unthinkable.

Europe is facing a demographic disaster. That is the inevitable product of weakened faith in the Creator, failed families, disrespect for the sanctity of human life and eroded morality.

Some reason that culture is merely an accessory to America's vitality; we know that it is the source of our strength. And we are not dissuaded by the snickers and knowing glances when we stand up for family values, and morality, and culture.

And finally, let's consider the greatest challenge facing America - and facing the entire civilised world: the threat of violent, radical jihad... They hate everything we believe about freedom just as we hate everything they believe about radical jihad.

If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win.

And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror.

This is not an easy decision for me. I hate to lose. My family, my friends and our supporters... many of you right here in this room... have given a great deal to get me where I have a shot at becoming president.

If this were only about me, I would go on. But I entered this race because I love America, and because I love America, I feel I must now stand aside, for our party and for our country.

I will continue to stand for conservative principles; I will fight alongside you for all the things we believe in. And one of those things is that we cannot allow the next president of the United States to retreat in the face evil extremism.

:blink:

I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for. I'm a registered Democrat & I chose Obama in the primaries. I don't think any of our choices-McCain, H. Clinton, Obama, Huckabee-are really going to make a difference. The only positive I can see is that it seems like all of them have a steady platform. we can vote for one and not be upset about it. (In the last election we had George W. Bush running against John Kerry- I only voted in that one because I had to)

Am probably going to offend my fellow Americans here Romney feels it would be "unthinkable" if the US lost its place as the world superpower. Maybe that's what needs to happen :(

I'm surprised you don't think any of the choices will make a difference given what they've all said on things like foreign policy and the need to address climate change etc. After all the defining aspect of Bush's presidency will be Iraq, Gore probably wouldn't have gone to war-that difference is surely profound.
They won't change everything, even most things, but they can make a difference for better or worse.

As for your point about the US not being a superpower or the main world superpower, which nation would you prefer in that role?
My politics are left of centre, and i'm no Bush fan, but I think many -especially on the left enjoy castigating every aspect the USA almost as an act of faith, rather than recognising the US as the major cultural and economic power house in the world. Yes it's flawed, but then every civilisation that has ever existed shares that description.

Haha I remember I was the only person in my school who was for Bush - I got slaughtered for that. Not that they knew anything about Kerry :rolleyes:

To be honest Big T, I don't know who I'd like to see in the superpower position. I've never left the United States-our "way" is the only way I know. I would like to someday be able to visit/live in a different country so I can have something to compare. I guess I'll choose McCain for the Republicans & Obama for the Democrats. I was registered as an Independent for many years-probably because my mom is a moderate Dem & my dad is moderate Rep. :D

Obama seems tae hiv the momentum at the mament. Howp Hillary wins, even tho I ain't follaein whit the candidates are saying that closely.

What I quite don't get in these polls and results is that despite such convincing wins by Obama, national polls show Clinton having a 3 to 6 points lead!!! Isn't that misinformation to its best?

I have to say I have been surprisingly interested in what has been happening, although the American system takes some time to understand (and the fact that Maine works differently just confuses it further).

But from what I can gather both Obama and Clinton don't vary that much in their policies-obviously they have their differences, Obama is much more eco-friendly than Clinton but overall I would say that both are more than capable of leading the democrats to victory.

Personally I'm in favour of Hilary, I'm not sure whether Obama is ready, maybe a little inexperienced and so in my opinion Clinton should win. But she needs to slow down Barack's momentum...

Obama haes wun convincingly in mair states but thae states are wee and unimportant ones. Nae surprise in ma opeenion, Hillary haes been winning the big winner-takes-it-aw stuff like California, Florida an New York which hiv mair delegates.

No I am not convinced by zat Arry! polls of 700 people (usually ze average sample) , even if sampled according to USA demographic representation, cannot be more accurate than ze 10s millions people that voted in ze 35 states!

:lmaao:

Hillary needs to win big in Texas if she has any chance of pulling the nomination out.

:pray: Hilary or Obama hurry up and get into power with this numpty still around..

(BBC Video) http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_72...&news=1&bbcws=1

If he was only limiting his presidency tasks to dancing he woudl not be half as bad. ;)

Hilary or Barack that is the question!