Part 1-The Serve

Who in your opinion has the best ever serve? You can vote for up to 3 people but if you vote 'other', please create a post to specify who the other is :)

I have voted Rusedski because he built his career around his serve. OK he is not GOAT but imo his serve alone got him to a slam final, while most of the others on the shortlist had more to their arsenal

Ivo statistically has the best serve ever IMO - his stats on serve are just ridiculous.

Pete Sampras had the best clutch serve to get him out of trouble and hold his game together.

Federer's recent performances as shown in my stats thread are as good as Sampras's so i think he should be included in the polll although he isn't the winner.

:ok:


I would simply add that Ivo's serve is probably statitiscally the biggest weapon in tennis history. No BH, FH, returns have such a high winning percentage or have brought as many points per match.

So true Tenez.

It is not clear if we are voting for a serve as a one off shot, or for its consistency or for the first and second serve all together?

And....he wouldn't win this section, but Boris is better than a lot of those names on that list. I know we are sticking to the ones from the other thread but it's still a disappointment.

In my opinion out of those and combining consistency, speed, spin, kick and ability to deliver under pressure Sampras has the best serve.

We should consider the shot, no more, no less. Like the “most feared serve” for its time. Regardless of first, second or under pressure or not as this would all be talk, no substance. Players return a serve and good servers have all a good 2nd serve as well. Tanner, Roddick, Sampras, Ivo, Goran etc. being 15/40 up in Ivo's serve means not much for the returner as he is also the one who saves most BPs. After all, a first serve ace is still better than a good second serve.

Saying that Ivo hasn't got a good second serve is wrong. He is still in the top 17 in terms of second serve won. Knowing he is 50th in return games won means his second serve does quite a bit to save him out of trouble and not sending him back down the list. I remember Tanner, Becker, Sampras, Goran they all had a wow effect on people when serving. They were known to have great serve for their peers. It is in my view what we should base our judgement when considering the greatest shot or serve. I have never seen such a deadly serve as Ivo’s and by the look of the stats, no one has.

nobody agrees about rusedski then? :shrug:

I'm liking this forum. Good idea Liam :D

I can't agrre on rusedski.. I remember it breaking down a lot... never looked the most fluid of shots either.
I have to go with Pete although it was very close between him and Goran. I think both serves seemed to come so naturally to them and both looked less contrived and as if it didn't take much effort to pull off.
To be able to serve as consistently as they did and so efficiently, for me that outshine sthe rest. Pete just edges it for me as a rightie as I tried to model my serve on him and I couldn't quite do the leftie thing.. :P

Sampras loses 3 points on serve in 2 sets against Rafter

Sampras serve volley

Fed vs Pete service action

Roddick ace

Federer serve montage

BTW guys, i only have access to youtube so please post your own clips if you have any :)

I voted Pete Sampras, I voted other, and that would be Boris Becker. Hard to believe he wasn't on the shortlist - very hard to believe.

Anyway, I've got a few youtube clips from my own collection which I will use on this thread and the WTA thread.

To highlight Sampras' serve, I chose 4, two of him serving for a match and two for a set.

1994 Miami final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31IHfaRL1X0

1999 Cincinnati semifinal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrlaerCgl9w

2000 Miami final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZy6Hk0zxHM

1994 ATP frankfurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJMXBOQ94Q

Boris Becker
v Krajicek 1996 ATP semifinal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boP1mexvjbw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52I_FtWGvv8

1994 ATP final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugJmwVVAYhI

Videos from other youtube members

Becker v Medvedev 5 aces in a row!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLLL1fND0lc

McEnroe v Connors - 1984 Wimbledon final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOnnRH5-VHc

that clip of Becker hitting 5 aces in a row is fairly impressive :ok:

Ahhh sweet sweet memories.... amazing he didn't make the shortlist.

I know! I'd have had him down in the best fo all time. It might nto have been as good as Goran or Sampras, but he wasn't called Boom-boom for nowt! :D And I used to love his service action and preperation.

There's a lot fo name son that list who I expect did great serves but no one can comment on cos they don't remember them. How is John Isner on the list? I know he serves big but it's early days for him!

The stats clearly say Karlovic, i think there's a danger of subjectivising this one when it's the one shot that's the most easy to be objective about.
It's not a question of what kind of serve one prefers but which is the highest percentage of unreturned. Karlovic wins more points on serve with virtually no back up game-that's hard to argue with-he's relying on the serve alone unlike many others on that list.
Other shots like for eg volley are more ambiguous to judge because they always depend on a previous shot-in that case serve.
I'm slightly astonished that people would see Becker as having a better than Karlovic, Ivanisevic or Sampras, while Becker had a great serve, he didn't have the serve of say Karlovic, and his serve was eminently readable by Agassi of course-who picked it off at will. Becker's skill was backing up the serve with great volleys and groundies, not to mention his athleticism and he did have a great serve yes, but not all time great.

I am with T. if we consider ONLY the serve Ivo is the man IMO..After if we move a little bit further (Mainly, Is there a plan a strategy after the BIG serve), well in this case it is Pete: Pete was a amazing server but he had plenty of other stuffs in his game, Ivo has (basically) that and few other stuffs..So my vote for Ivo.

I'd like to ask those who did not vote Ivo, what kind of serve in their view would overtake Sampras' serve?

While Ivo's serve is indeed fantastic and the stats say so, I feel it hasn't been tested at the very top of the game in the latter stages of GS events when the pressure is really on.

Personally that's why I voted for Sampras. If Ivo can prove his serve will consitantly function with the stats he has in those kind of matches, I would gladly call his serve the greatest and best of all time. Maybe this will happen soon and we can re-evaulate. :ok:

That's my opinion and I am not sure I can extend on that justification.

Gav, you are a diplomat and a gentlemen.

But allow me to paraphrase what you said - it's not going to happen anytime soon (Ivo getting to latter stages of slams - hence no re-evaluation will need to take place)

:ok:

As much as i understand your argument, I think it is a very relative one with the intent to rid Ivo's chance for the "best serve" title. I can hold the same argument when comparing Federer and Sampras serve. I 'd say when Sampras was chasing his most important Slam in his career (5th Wimbledon title in a row to eclipse Borg once and for all), his serving let him down. When Federer found himself in the same situation and faced 4 BPs in the first 2 games of the 5th set last year, his serve took him out of trouble. SO I could say under the most extreme pressure, Federer's serve is more reliable.

However I think we are going off track here, especially as the conditions nowadays are so much against the servers versus the 90s.

Well I was being a diplomat Tenez, now perhaps I won't be so....

The age old comparison of Federer to Sampras is a little ridiculous here considering both have multiple slams. That is not a direct comparison with the likes of Ivo and I think you know that.

So let me get this straight, because I don't agree with you then somehow my intent is to "rid Ivo's chance for the best serve title"?!?!?!?

Is anyone else allowed to have an opinion here? I don't think Ivo has the greatest serve ever and I have justified my opinion on that. I simply think Sampras's serve is greater. If you don't then I accept your opinion and I don't accuse you of having intent to rid Pete's chance for the best sever title now do I?

I can't see why you have to drop the diplomatic approach! I have not attacked you, have I? I just don't buy the pressure argument cause it is an extremely relative one. Now, I am certainly not trying to convince you. We were, so i thought anyway, just exchanging views.

Your comment of my "intent" against Ivo's serve was perhaps a bad choice of word. I can't blame you there as English is not your first language.

As far as Ivo's serve and Sampras's serve go, I think we both know neither of us are going to agree on that.

My initial reply was to answer the question you put out to everyone who voted for Sampras and not Ivo, hence I compared them in my initial reply.