After having watched last nights match which for me will go down as one of the top 5 matches of the year for me,its amazing to see what Nalbandian does to Federer everytime they play.I have watched Madrid 3 times already by the way.I have also recorded last night match and will watch it another 5 times :D

Nalbandian is always going to be a danger man for Federer.His stroke production is astounding.He also reads Federer's serve just as well as Federer reads Roddicks.Nalbandian gets almost every return back and this is what I noticed with Djokovic as well and they get it back deep.Nalbandian doesnt allow Federer to get away with his second serve and attacks it head on and from then on controls the rally.His first attack,the return.

When engaged in the rallies,Nalbandian is actually able to generate more pace than Federer and rush him.Not many others can rush Federer.Nalbandians two hander is now arguably the best in the business.Especially the crosscourt backhand.Not only was he creating mad angles he always drags Federer out wide on his backhand that it leaves an open court for an outright winner or volley.He does this equally well on the forearm.

Nalbandian on the run.The only 2 other players that are dangerous on the run are Nadal and Federer himself.Nalbandian on the run hitting his forearm down the line is very dangerous.

Basically Nalbandian is the only player to do to Federer what he does to evyryone else.Federer is just uncomfortable playing the dirty Argentine.

I must say well done to Dunking Dave who appears to have lost weight and is looking fitter.A great 6-4- 7-6 win that was truly good tennis to watch.

:clap:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/7074351.stm

Exactly what I have said about his backhand. :ok:

This is the second time in 3 weeks! Nalby is so good against Fed but is not consistent enough...but those cross court backhands are just amazing..the angles he generates just make Fed go literally outside the court to return them..thus he makes Fed more defensive.It would be interesting to see how Nalby plays rafa now..though Rafa is still not in his prime form..Rafa is so good on the defense.Nalby has been doing a fantastic job.Go Nalby! :ok:

I hate Nalbandian for being so good. Only matches apart from Nadal matches where I get shit nervous.

His backhand is awesome and such solid technique on both wings. His serve is better but still I think Federer should exploit this.

This year I don't think Fed is being quite as aggressive or explosive.

I'd agree there, but he still has 3 out of the 4 GS Titles to his name. That shows what a legend he truly is.

I kinda think he is being very smart or shrewd!He has toned down his game a lot this year.This is what I think.He is allowing the young guns to actually develop whilst he limits his abilities to just enough to beat them.We all know the level of his game.Federer is truly a blessed number 1 because he has no injuries and his fitness is sublime.When the youngsters reach a certain peak he will raise his game to take it to them.He plans very much to want to break Petes record and a few others and theonly way he can do this is if he can compete with the new generation like Pete and Andre did well into his 30s.Why should he max out his talent now :shrug: when he can save some for the future. ;)

This is what I think and believe me Federer is always going to be in the mix of things regardless of whether he is world number 1 or not! :ok:

I mentioned the superiority of the dble handed BH over the single one quite a bit recently. ;) And it is going to be more and more so as the shbh are a exctincting race.

But to me the real problem with Fed this year compared to the previous ones is his FH. He had the best in the business for 3/4 years, capable to unbalance any opponent on that side almost at any chosen time. Now it simply doesn't fire anymore. I remember the numerous points he was winning by simply unleashing a FH in the middle of a fierce rally putting Nalby, Nadal and al 4 meters from the ball either along the line or cross court. How many times has that happened since Miami? very few times from the many matches I saw this year. Wimbledon was so telling of this, as on grass even nadal ended having a better FH than Fed. In my view, there is still a huge doubt in Federer's mind. I mentioned the slower step and the racket change and I am not sure what it is as certainly the confidence crisis on his FH clearly started after the AO when he changed the racket that gave him 10 slams. I am not saying the racket itself is at fault, but the change of racket may have simply taken away this confidence and raise some doubts that is so key to his game. I don't believe a coach can help contrary to the rumour. The coach won't give him this confidence that allwowed him to hit the lines or the amazing depth that his FH could find. His FH now has more spin to minimise errors and therefore has slowed enough to give Nalby enough time to out-hit Federer. The difference between yesterday match and the long series of Fed's winning match is down to a few points, those easy points that Fed could suddenly get by flattening his FH and keep Nalby guessing. Now Fed has to fight for every point and against Nalby, he is likey to get tired and lose. He needs this FH back, quick!

Hi Darky, :hug:

In theory your analysis sound just perfect and I can easily see it (as I can see and agree with your analysis of the Nalbi game and the weapons he use to beat FED)

Nevertheless, I would stress my word: IN THEORY

I am quite sure (and I agree with you) during all this season FED has tried to win titles using his Tennis skills only when it was necessary: There are out there several interviews in which he claimed that he wants to play in a different way and he want to use more a strategic approach and no more using his "young" strategic plan of battle...

Nevertheless, in the same time, before his yesterday meeting with Nalbi, he said that he was not playing his best Tennis at the moment, i.e. he was trying as usual to produce his best but he cannot deliver (and my friend, during his second set in the final of Basel, he was getting so frustrated with his Tennis...It was almost like see him back before his raise in 2003 :yikes: :yikes: )...

So..He wants to use a strategic (economic) approach to guarantee his titles in the long run (longevity is main concern at the moment) BUT at the same time he was very please (and he is) to guarantee the same sort of domination..

IMO, FED is more in a contradiction mode than in clear visison of his future, i.e. I am not buying your conclusion: "Why should he max out his talent now :shrug: when he can save some for the future. ;) "

Conclusion: FED is entering in a new phase (due to the fact that time is running for him as well) the domination who was able to exercise in the last 4 years will not be possible to reproduce as such in the future: he knows that. So, he needs to find new ways to adapt..

He is doing that..But at the same time he needs advice and someone who can help him: Get a good trainer FED and this ASAP. This guy will help you to pass over this period and help you to find the right way in order to fight with the new gen of players.

Hope it is clear.. :rolleyes:

I agree with this mostly especially about his forearm.But Im gonna say this and its a quote from the new druggie Hingis.When you get older you start to think about things more,nerves settle in and its the disbelief in yourself that takes over.When you are younger you just go for it,nothing to lose.Maybe Federer is thinking a bit more now about the meaning of his achievements and what he still wants to achieve rather than just going out there and playing his natural instinctive tennis! :ok:

I think he wants longevity in the game TV and what other way to sustain it other than preserving himself now.Surely he must have goal of how many slams he wants to win or on the whole what he wants to achieve.Federer is really the first number 1 with an acute sense of what to do how and when.

He is entering a new phase of his career where his supremacy is being challenged and this is new to him.He is in a trial and error phase and him slowing down is evident of it.Trust me,there will come a time when he just will let go again and play to the full of his instincts.Federer has quite a bit more left in his artillery to explore just like Sampras did at his late age.

:ok:

We are on line, as often..Wait and see mode..But please FED could you catch a good trainer (adviser) whatever? I mean Tennis is more at his level is definitely more difficult than :

:tennis:

IMO

Also in Yesterdays match,Federers balls were landing to short.Especially his backhand.Only when he was down in the last few games di dhe start hitting his backhand deeper and for the lines.Nalbandian really exploited this!

Roger has been talking about Nadal, as his main rival and thengave credits to Roddick, Safin and Hewitt as they were GS champions. Lately he started to acknowledge Djokovic, but has forgettoen about Nalby, after a string of victories against him. Remember Nalby had the upper hand in the ealry stages just like Henman. ThenFedere turned the tables and now Nalby had his head screwed on and with good tactics got a couple of wins in a row. It is good for the game. Well done David. The thign to remember is: keep up the good work..

If you look at the H2H, many of Federer's victories came when Nalbandian was either injured or hopelessly off form. Nalbandian puts to bed the myth that Federer eats attacking players for breakfast - it just needs to be a varied, intelligent attacking game as opposed to a one-dimensional ball-bashing game. Sadly, apart from Fat Dave, there's no-one else around who can boast such a game, although some of the young guns look to have the making of one. It's such a shame that Nalbandian is missing some kind of mental aspect of the game - with a clearer, more focused head this guy could have had 5-6 Slams by now.

I do not know why but I guess you are thinking to Blake and AROD with this sentence..And IMO you are too strong: Both of them in a A day can offer more than that..But OK thisis your usual "strong" statement of the day (i.e. nowadays Tennis out there is basically cr@p compare to...we know the rest.. :yawn: )

Anyway..Good morning Wise.. :P :P

BTW: The H2H between the two has been as follow: First 5 matches for Nalbi then 8 to 1 matches for FED and finally these two..

Among the 8 there are several of them in which Nalbi was playing at his best -e.g. Madrid last year-

Would you be able one day to pay some credit to FED? I guess no ... Unbelievable!!

We all know David is potentially a great player.

Let's hope he can go on to greater things. He's still young enough.

A late bloomer like Gonzo! Did you watch the match Laurie?Do you agree with my assesment of the match?

Unfortunately I didn't see the match because the sports channel that covers it hasn't been showing evening matches.

But I've seen enough of Nalbandian to know what he's about. I wouldn't call Nalbandian a late bloomer, he did get to the Wimbledon final in 2002. He has the talent to be a slam winner of at least 3 slams but hasn't got it together. In 2005 he came from 2 sets down to beat Federer in the Masters cup, so when everyone was looking forward to an Australian final between the two last year, he let the side down by allowing Baghdatis to come from two sets down in the semifinal.

I always enjoy watching him play, I saw him beat Davydenko last year in Paris. I've also discussed this with Tenez, in football terms I liken Nalbandian to a playmaker in the traditional sense, like a Platini, Zico, Zola type player - he's a strategic player, has a lot of vision. He knows how to pick on a players weak spots. His game is similar to Hingis with mans power. Gonzalez is not a big league player like Nalbandian.

I would like to see him win a slam.

This is what I have been saying in my earlier post and this is something he can't afford. He is now a Youshny or a Haas but not the Federer we used to know.

Always a pleasesure to read you :ok:

Hi DN,
A lot of my arguments below are probably already said in this thread but I’m a bit in a hurry so here’s a quick post;

It was indeed an amazing match, it captured perfectly well what we all know for some years now; these 2 are the most talented players of their generation. In Nalby’s case; he messed up too often, this is why his brilliance is still overlooked by many tennis fans.
Nevertheless; I’m sure will keep on amaze AND disappoint us for the rest of his career.
Since you recorded the matches, you’ll be able to analyse the following;
It was clear the match started like the Madrid match ended; Nalby giving Fed a master class “hitting early and hit hard”. It seemed to me Fed was finally reacting to that once he went 2 breaks down in the first; Imo he stepped a yard back from the baseline which helped him to hit more “lazy” topspin balls from both his fore- and backhand. After that Nalby produced more UE’s (as he prefers to play as fast as possible) and Fed was controlling the match a little bit better. In fact; it was quite even after that and I actually thought the match was the moment he took a 6-5 lead in the second. That missed set point was crucial I guess as I definitely fancied his changes in a possible third.
But the most remarkable part was –just like in Madrid- the fearless way Nalby attacks Roger’s FH, I’m sure Roger never faced a player who not only dares to do that, but also is successful in doing so. Even Nadal on clay rather avoids that corner against Roger.

Oh T, you were right; My avatar is a young Swiss lad, just before he found out Tennis should be played single handed, all the shots that it :D

That is as astute as it can get.I agree entirely with that.I cant even add because its so spot on.
:ok:

Dark, do you believe that Federer holds back against one of his main rivals (and his biggest rival as a junior that is on somewhat of a comeback) in a Masters final? I really doubt that. Could it just be a case of Federer not having a great day and not having a mental edge over Nalby (because he knows from past experience that Nalby can beat him when he's hot, and Fed was Nalby's bunny in the juniors) and Nalby playing a better match with less to lose and therefore less pressure? :shrug:
I personally think that Fed would acknowledge that tennis will get harder as he gets older, so what purpose would be served by limiting his standard and letting the younger players catch up, only to unleash again when he is 30? None. I would imagine that he is keen to break Sampras' record BEFORE he gets caught up, which adds pressure and will see him make mistakes and have more bad days.
I would lose all respect for Fed if he 'didn't play his best' to maintain a longer (but more average) career.

Perhaps guys this is just natural selection taking place.Did Borg ever think his domination would could come to an end when Mac matched him?
Did Becker when Pete started playing the same game but with even more penetration?
Did Pete think a small aussie could return his serve and eventually become number 1?
Did Hewitt envisage getting mauled so comprehensively by the Swiss master?

Maybe this is the turnaround in Roger's career where he is finally caught and his game loses it's bite.
I'm with Tenez though on his forehand,I think all the training with the French in mind has blunted it.He doesn't hit through the court much now.
Similar to Roddick who went down the same road,and look at his forehand now.
Obviously you can't compare them as players,but he certainly has lost the X-factor on that wing.

BTW hello everyone.Thought I would just add something.Some great stuff here.

Hi Brakkus - Yes, his adaptation to the FO might be a reason too for his loss of FH penetration. Good to read you, Glad to see that business is keeping you busy still.

Interesting comments about the Federer forehand. I hope he gets it back soon !

What nalby does to Federer is pin him way back behind that baseline. It's not always tangible, but when Federer is away from his strikezone on the baseline, he struggles. You see that with nadal on clay, that lashing spin takes Fed so far back and his game becomes less effective. nalbandian just has incredible accuracy as well, and when he's playing well there's relatively few unforced errors. he also takes the ball astonishingly early too, especially off the return, so a pretty formidable prospect even for Federer.

Also i agree with brakkus, Fed's forehand is a tad erratic at times. Goes for more topspin and doesnt flatten it out as much recently. All these things help nalbandian a lot.

Perfect analysis.

I thought that Nalbandian hit many lines as well in his match v Fed and I know he is good but there was a bit of luck (or we call it reussite in French "forced luck?") that he may not have next time around. If he desn't choke, he shoudl win easily tomorrow v Nadal.

Hi Brakkus (& Tenez) and allow me to start this post with a AAAAAAAAHHHHGGGGHH (i.e. my today's Rant of frustration..do not worry I am joking) :angry3: :doh:

Come on guys!!..We need to be rational here, all of us: All Tennis planet is telling Roger, season after season, that to be considered (in a undisputable way) the GOAT of Tennis he should have at least one RG title under his belt..

Knowing that, knowing that this idea is certainly always in his head day after day, we are here stressing that his FH is less impressive in fast courts nowadays and this because he spent too much time adapting his game to the "slow" dirty surface...

But he is simply taking as reference the best clay court player he has in front of him, i.e. Rafa.

Rafa has a gigantic FH on clay and then FED is simply amazed of his shot. More, given clay's records of Rafa, well FED tries to follow a bit this man on this surface: Is this a wrong strategy? IMO yes. :doh:

FED has 100 more tennis resources than Rafa and there are other ways to beat Rafa on clay which do not include to play him on his territories (with the same game -physical, base liner, top spin-plan basically) ...

But, on the other hand, come on, a guy without a trainer (adviser, whatever you want to call him) is simple following his instinct ( a great one in the case of FED no doubt):

Rafa is the best on clay, his main weapons are basically his gigantic top spin FH and his amazing physic preparation. So, why not try this way? Why not emulate him in some sense!!...

Is this an error? As I said IMO YES..But it is terribly human: AND FED IS HUMAN :yikes: :yikes:

But come on guys!! Honestly, what is the alternative? Do not change anything in his game, i.e. continue to dominate on fast, and stop on the Rafa's wall on the red? i.e. Become a GOAT with a clay hole (a la Pete :whistle: :whistle: )..

Or try his best to catch at least one title at RG knowing the name of your major opponent? FED wants to achieve his best everywhere, he is committed to master at least once all odds on clay. I know it sound stupid at his level but he is simply trying to learn something from his best opponent on this surface: And this might imply to lose part of his brilliance on fast surfaces..

As a conclusion I will stress these two points: IMO, as I pointed out before, FED is at the moment in a confusion mode more than anything. He needs a trainer who could help him to clarify what to do for the rest of his career. On that side, please, get a trainer ASAP (call Andre this man is a real asset and ask him for some valuable advices: PLEASE).

Concerning the FED FH on fast I am not so sure that this shot is more in a bad shape than the rest of his game IMO: FED' game is simply not at his best and his current FH is just the illustration of this status (BTW: have a look at the end of the second set in the USO final: FED saved there two set points against him using the FH mainly then he build an impressive tie-break killing all Djoko's expectations..Not so sure he has lose so much). Besides, if you add the fact that what he wants at the moment it is to develop the FH -and his entire game- for the clay then you see why he is at the moment missing more than usual on his fav surfaces...

Once again, a good trainer would be able to cool down the situation, helping to re-order the objectives and finally helping him find back his best game (i.e. his best game given the fact that time has past and some "elements" cannot anymore be so easily executed as two-three years ago).

I end my rant...I am feeling better..And I hope it is clear :rolleyes:

HI TV - Do you really think that Fed's FH is as good as before? you say he is in "confusion mode", I'll call this loss of confidence. The opposite of what Nalby is going through at the moment and we can see that confidence is everything, especially in tennis.

You say a coach can bring it back, but personally I think a quicker step. or a strings of wins versus his tough opponents (Nadal, Nalby, Djoko) can do just that. It is this same confidence boost that started his amzing invincibilty 4 years ago. This is the word Hewitt uses to describe his game in the USO 05 final, even though a year ago, Fed had lost a crucial match in the DC against the same player.

You are probably right that Fed has been trying to curve the trajectory of his FH to make it less risky on clay as this is probably the tournement is most want know, but whatever it is, it's simply less efficient on fast courts hat it used and more importantly, it has affected his confidence.

Hopefully he can readdress that. I definetly hope so.

I actually do think he does take the younger guys less seriously than he does with Rafa,Donut Dave and a few others I havent named.I actually believe that he only saw Nadal as his main rival until later this year.He had turned his H2H around with Donut and took him lightly but he always has the fear of Nalby at the back of his mind. ;) Therefore he got thumped,twice!

Yes,Federer's form this year has been very up and down.He has actually held back a lot of his instinctive game and has been playing a more strategic careful game where he is thinking a bit too much!.I agree his forearm has lost some bite and has become erratic.Having said that,his backhand has gone from erratic to consistent.But is this the direction he should be going? :shrug: He utilise his off forearm less as well as that down the line bullet.That was his basic game and he doesnt use it anymore.

I believe that he knows the as a youngster,when you are 19-22 you find your game and he is allowing them to do this while at his own pace keep up with them.I know just as you TM that he is capable of much better tennis than he has produced this year. :ok:

:ok:

Tenez I am with you: His FH is not at his best as (and I pointed out clearly before, but OK my post are too long and quite confuse at time) his game ( i.e. I will not separate his FH from his BH from his ability to mix up and approching to the net-not so well done lately- ect..) in general.

IMO this is due to a "confusion mode" more than an "loss of confidence".. I mean, loss of confidence for which reasons my friend?

He won 3 majors out of 4 he still managed to have a great season on all surfaces and OK he did not win in Madrid but he reached the final playing a very solid Tennis (70% of the last year Tennis at the same period IMO, and last year at the same time he was playing at his best IMO)...

And there is always in his head the next clay season..Is he manipulating might be too much his shots for this surface? I believe so...
But, my point was that this is human.Come on !! It is the last surface in which he "failed" ("failed" in relative terms in front of him he has might be one of the best clay court guy ever so. :P ..)

This is why I stay with my idea: He needs a trainer (adviser) who can help him basically discussing about his main objectives, who can help him tactically against some of the major players out there and so on and so forth...

But once again, I agree with your analysis but I continue to believe it is more "confusion" mode than a "confidence" mode problem at the moment... :rolleyes:

I seemt o think that if he goes for it with his forehand especially on clay he will actaully win.This adaption of his game for clay doesnt bode well with me.I keep saying it,his is doubting his instincts and needs to believe in them again.His game will fall into place thereafter! :ok:

Darky you should as well open another thread: what Nalbi is doing to all players..I.e. Rafa has tested as well the Nalbi medicine..BTW; the same medicine is not working with Stan..I saw the Basel match between the two and Nalbi was playing very well..Still facing another guy who is constantly bombarding from the baseline with atrocious pace he is able to fail at time 9i.e. the other guy who trouble him in Paris is Ferrer more than any other)..these are elements that should be discussed: Nalbi has a game to trouble FED and Rafa but is he generating the same troubles on others? I doubt.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I have always known that Nalbys game was designed to counter that of Nadals.Its no surprise that he is cleaning him out. I just would like to see them play on clay!

Fully agree let's hope for such a match next year..By the time it is interesting to spot on the following quote by Nalbi who stressed precisely the difference between him and FED:

"To be the number one I would have to play like this the whole season," he said. "It's not easy to play that well on clay, hardcourts, grass and indoors. I think the only player who can do that at the moment is Roger (Federer)."

And the following reply by Rafa..( I doubt he comntinues to see Nalbi as a friend anymore-after the Madrid match he said he was a good friend of him- but now after the match of yesterday roflmao ):

Nadal, who has been dreaming of that top spot for years, agreed with Nalbandian that the Argentine still had some way to go.

"He's one of the best players in the world but not the best," the Spaniard said. ;) ;)

After the Madrid final i started a thread myself about the way roger played and why he may have lost that final, and we can talk all day about Roger's failing FH, shortcomings of his BH and lack of confidence against certain players but personally I’m a bit in a repentance kinda mood. Nalby plays at a different level at the moment, plain and simple.
We’ve seen some breathtaking tennis at the AO by the likes of Federer, Nadal played highly impressive at IW, Djoko showed the world in Canada he’s a future no. 1 player but the best tennis this year is played by Nalby; Madrid was great, Paris was overwhelming.
It’s funny, Dave’s been very consistent in being inconsistent yet at the moment it seems unimaginable some other than Dave wil win the AO…

Nalbys play is truly breathtaking at the moment.I dont know how long he can sustain it for. :shrug: