Title: The "Jena Six"
Nick Havoc - September 20, 2007 12:29 PM (GMT)
This is the big story in my part of the world right now. It's all a bit disturbing. There have been racial tensions there for about a year after some white kids hung nooses in a tree. But now, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et. al. are making a big civil rights issue out of the fact that a group of black students are facing criminal charges for beating the crap out of a white student. The noose-hanging incident that touched off the racial clashes was abhorent, but I find it equally abhorent the way they are making these kids that beat up another kid because he was white into some kind of civil rights heros.
All a very ugly situation. :(
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070920/ap_on_...school_fight_10 Gav - September 20, 2007 12:52 PM (GMT)
A very delicate and difficult situation.The lads who hung the nooses are obviously despicable and really should have been charged and given some community service and a fine, whereas the lads who beat up the othe guy actually commited physical violence against another and that should carry a heavier penalty, regardless of skin colour etc.... but of course this is not a perfect world and it causes all sorts of reactions in a situation where racial tensions are at their highest. It's a shame that civil rights is even being involved in this.....
Dinky Jo - September 20, 2007 12:57 PM (GMT)
I'll read up on the case a bit later, but from briefly looking at it, it appears that the civil rights people are arguing that the standards of justice are not the same, because the lads who hung the nooses haven't been charged or punished, but the lads who did the beating are being charged with attempted murder. :shrug:
mightyjeditribble - September 20, 2007 01:23 PM (GMT)
For more background, the article below is from the New York Times.
I must say that the severe charges brought against the six students, after the students who hung the nooses were not only not prosecuted, but also were not expelled from the school despite the school's own recommendation, leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.
Students beating up another student need to face the consequences, no matter what the circumstances. But attempted murder, and being tried as an adult? You've got to admit that that smacks of unfairness, and I can understand that the civil rights movement has gotten involved.
| QUOTE |
In Louisiana, a Tree, a Fight and a Question of Justice
Richard G. Jones/The New York Times
JENA, La., Sept. 18 — They called it the White Tree. Not because of the color of its leaves or tint of its bark, but because of the kind of people who typically sat beneath its shade here at Jena High School.
And when a black student tried to defy that tradition by sitting under the tree last September, it set off a series of events that have turned this town of 3,000 in central Louisiana’s timber country into a flashpoint over the issue of racial bias in the criminal justice system.
Three nooses quickly appeared on the tree a day after the black student sat under it, and not long afterward, the authorities said a white student had been beaten by six black schoolmates. The white student was treated at a local hospital and released; the black students were charged, not with assault, but with attempted murder.
Local civil rights groups objected to what they saw as a throwback to the worst kind of Deep South justice, and that protest has escalated into a nationwide campaign, through Web sites, bulk e-mail and instant messages, black radio stations and YouTube. The effort will reach its peak on Thursday, when thousands are expected to demonstrate here against what they say is the unfair treatment of the black students, who have come to be known as the Jena Six.
Lawyers involved in the case say the attention that the teenagers have received has prompted prosecutors to reduce some of the charges against the youths. And last Friday, an appeals court tossed out the conviction of the only student who has been tried in the case.
Even as Jena (pronounced GEE-nuh) girds itself for Thursday’s demonstration, the town — which has already undergone a measure of soul-searching since the case began — finds itself divided sharply over precisely what the case says about their town and themselves.
“Every year at Jena High School there’s a black-and-white fight,” said Casa Compton, 26, a Jena native, who is black. “It’s always been tense. There’s always been prejudice and bigotry here. Every day they’re throwing away a black man’s life down here.”
But Tina Norris, 45, owner of the Café Martin restaurant, said she was amazed at the kind of publicity her town was now receiving.
“They make it sound like the whole town of Jena is just one big K.K.K. rally,” said Ms. Norris, who is white. “It isn’t. We don’t have a lot of problems here. This is just a small town.”
Critics of how the case has been handled argue that the treatment of the black students is evidence of the persistence of corrosive attitudes about race and crime.
“I think a lot of people recognize that the criminal justice system grinds down people of color every day,” said J. Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the civil rights group based in Montgomery, Ala. “Oftentimes, it’s nameless, it’s faceless. We know the story in a generic way but not specifically. People see Jena as the tip of the iceberg and ask, ‘What lies beneath?’ ”
The legal case began on Dec. 4, when the authorities said that the black youths — Robert Bailey Jr., 17; Jesse Beard, 15; Mychal Bell, 17; Carwin Jones, 18; Bryant Purvis, 17; and Theo Shaw, 17 — beat a white classmate in a confrontation outside the school gymnasium. The charges of attempted murder have been scaled back to offenses like aggravated battery and conspiracy, of which Mr. Bell was convicted on June 28.
Last Friday, an appeals court found that Mr. Bell had been improperly tried in adult court on the battery charge and threw out that conviction. Another judge tossed out the conspiracy conviction earlier this month. School officials cut down the tree.
Reed Walters, the district attorney of LaSalle Parish, did not respond to requests for comment.
Mr. Bell is still being held in jail while prosecutors deliberate whether to file new charges against him in juvenile court. The case of Mr. Bell — the only one of the six who has been jailed since the fight in December — has struck a chord among many who have followed the case.
“In Jena, for those who have been under the illusion that changes have occurred, this is a wake-up call,” the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder of Operation PUSH/Rainbow Coalition and an organizer of Thursday’s rally, said in a phone interview, comparing the case to seminal moments like the Montgomery bus boycott that began in 1955.
College students have been a driving force in promoting the Jena case, and some of those who study race relations say that it has galvanized a generation that is often criticized by veterans of the social activist movement as being too complacent.
“What my students say is, ‘It could be any one of us that could be in this predicament,’ ” said Jas Sullivan, a political scientist at Louisiana State University. “What I see in their eyes is that this could happen to them.”
But even here in Jena, there is a sense of perspective and nuance about the case that is often lost in the larger debate. There are white people, too, who say the teenagers should have been tried in juvenile court, and many blacks who insist that the teenagersshould be punished if they committed a crime, though in juvenile court.
On Tuesday, Mr. Bell’s parents, Marcus Jones and Melissa Bell, and the mother of Mr. Purvis, Tina Jones, were approached by the Rev. P. A. Paul, 78, who is white and said he was a minister at a local Baptist church. A shouting match ensued when he dismissed the hanging of nooses as “kid’s play.”
“I’ve hung nooses around my neck as a child,” he said.
“Well, you didn’t pull it tight enough,” Ms. Jones shot back.
After the two sides were separated, Mr. Bell’s parents said their son was hoping to be freed from jail soon and resume a high school football career.
“But when he gets out, we’re moving out of Jena,” Ms. Bell said.
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Nick Havoc - September 20, 2007 01:27 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ Sep 20 2007, 07:57 AM) |
| I'll read up on the case a bit later, but from briefly looking at it, it appears that the civil rights people are arguing that the standards of justice are not the same, because the lads who hung the nooses haven't been charged or punished, but the lads who did the beating are being charged with attempted murder. :shrug: |
That's exactly the issue, and I think they have a point in that, but the kids who were arrested for the beating have achieved somewhat of hero status among the black community here, which just seems a little disconcerting. I'm afraid the whole episode will end up increasing racial tensions more that improving anything.
Dinky Jo - September 20, 2007 01:32 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick Havoc @ Sep 20 2007, 02:27 PM) |
| QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ Sep 20 2007, 07:57 AM) | | I'll read up on the case a bit later, but from briefly looking at it, it appears that the civil rights people are arguing that the standards of justice are not the same, because the lads who hung the nooses haven't been charged or punished, but the lads who did the beating are being charged with attempted murder. :shrug: |
That's exactly the issue, and I think they have a point in that, but the kids who were arrested for the beating have achieved somewhat of hero status among the black community here, which just seems a little disconcerting. I'm afraid the whole episode will end up increasing racial tensions more that improving anything.
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Well, looking at MJTs article, there appears to be a case of different standards of justice - the white kids should have been prosecuted (do you have a crime of inciting racial hatred over there?) and excluded from school, the black kids shouldn't have been charged with attempted murder but with assault or whatever. But i don't think that the fact should be lost that both sides did something wrong...... :unsure:
mightyjeditribble - September 20, 2007 01:40 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
'Stealth racism' stalks deep South
By Tom Mangold, Louisiana
This World investigates the rise of discrimination in America's deep south as six black youths are charged with an alleged attack on a white student, which could see them jailed for up to 50 years.
Three rope nooses hanging from a tree in the courtyard of a school in a small Southern town in Louisiana have sparked fears of a new kind of "stealth" racism spreading through America's deep south.
Although this sinister episode happened last August, the repercussions have been extensive and today the town of Jena finds itself facing the unwelcome glare of national and international publicity.
Jena has a mixed community, 85% white, 12% black.
The bad old days of the "Mississippi Burning" 60s, civil liberties and race riots, lynchings, the KKK and police with billy clubs beating up blacks might have ended.
But in the year that the first serious black candidate for the White House, Barak Obama, is helping unite the races in the north, the developments in the tiny town of Jena are disturbing.
It all began at Jena High School last summer when a black student, Kenneth Purvis, asked the school's principal whether he was permitted to sit under the shade of the school courtyard tree, a place traditionally reserved for white students only. He was told he could sit where he liked.
The following morning, when the students arrived at school, they found three nooses dangling from the tree.
Most whites in Jena dismissed it as a tasteless prank, but the minority black community identified the gesture as something far more vicious.
"It meant the KKK, it meant '*I am gonna be banned from this board for using a racially offensive word - CC Admin*s we're going to kill you, we're gonna hang you 'til you die'," said Caseptla Bailey, one of the black community leaders.
Old racial fault lines in Jena began to fracture the town. It was made worse when - despite the school head recommending the noose-hangers be expelled - the board overruled him and the three white student perpetrators merely received a slap on the wrist.
Billy Doughty, the local barber, has never cut a black man's hair. But he does not think there is a racism problem in Jena.
Caseptla Bailey who is 56 and a former Air Force officer, has a degree in business management, but she cannot get a job as a bank teller. She lives in an area called Ward 10, which is where the majority of blacks live in trailers or wooden shacks. She says no whites live there at all.
"We want to live better, we want better housing." she says. "The Church says we should all be brothers and sisters in Christ".
Yet Sunday morning is perhaps one of the most segregated times in all of America. In the white neighbourhood, Pastor Dominick DiCarlo has only one black member of the Church, out of 450 resident members.
As racial tension grew last autumn and winter, there were race-related fights between teenagers in town. On 4 December, racial tension boiled over once more at the school when a white student, Justin Barker, was attacked by a small group of black students.
He fell to the ground and hit his head on the concrete, suffering bruising and concussion.
He was treated at the local hospital and released, and that same evening felt able to put in an appearance at a school function.
District Attorney Reed Walters, to the astonishment of the black community, has upgraded the charges of Mr Barker's alleged attackers to conspiracy to commit second degree murder and attempted second degree murder. If convicted they could be 50 before they leave prison.
Mr Walters has refused to give an on-the-record interview to the BBC about his decision on the charges.
Mr Barker has since been charged with possessing a firearm in an arms-free zone (the school grounds).
The six black students will face a hearing next month. One of them is Caseptla Bailey's son Robert, who originally had his bail set at an unaffordable $138,000 (£69,495).
She had to hire a private lawyer who managed to get Robert's bail reduced to $84,000 (£42,285) so that her family could meet it.
Michelle Jones' brother Carwyn is one of the boys charged. She is adamant that he will not get a fair trial in Jena.
"If he's tried here, the jury will pick who they want. I have no doubt that they will convict those boys of attempted second degree murder."
When they do eventually file into court, many observers believe it is the town of Jena which will really be on trial.
This World: "Race hate in Louisiana" will be broadcast on Thursday 24 May 2007 at 1900 BST on BBC Two.
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barrystar - September 20, 2007 01:41 PM (GMT)
The only remedy would have been to make sure that the both the noose hangers and the beaters up are brought to justice.
It appears that the the noose hangers did not commit a crime in Louisiana. That is deplorable, as recognised by the prosecutor. It is not a reason for avoiding trying the others, but it is a reason for ENORMOUS shame on the part of the State of Lousiana (a state with a track record I believe) and for changing the law pdq. It is also flabbergasting that they were not excluded from school, in fact it is horrendous that the School was either unaware of, or did nothing about, there being a "white tree". That is something that should have been stamped on by anyone in authority who knew about it and had the power to do something.
The Civil Rights campaigners therefore have a contribution to make on a number of levels. Unfortunately, that means that much of their contribution can only be seen as closing the stable door after the horse has bolted in the sense that the noose hangers will escape a trial. That is obviously unsatisfactory and frustrating (putting it mildly).
It is not clear from the reports, but I very much hope that the Civil Rights leaders are capable of the small but vitally important leap of intellectual honesty that distinguishes invalid criticism of the prosecutor or the Court system from criticisim of the law. In this intance is chiefly the law that is an ass, not so much those obliged to enforce or apply it. It may be that the attempted murder charges were excessive - so the prosecutor can be legitimately criticised for bringing them and dropping them - but we can't really say at this distance and nor can a civil rights leader unless he has full knowledge of the facts. The mere fact that the attack did not involve lethal weapons should not make the crucial difference. It is possible to kick or beat someone to death. The criteria for the prosecutor should have involved looking at matters such as the severity of the injuries and what the attackers said and did before and during the attack. If he did not, he is worthy of criticism. That goes both ways - it would be as bad if he dropped them for political reasons as if he brought them excessively in the first place. The apellate system appears to have righted any wrong of trying as an adult, which is what it's there for.
From the report, the use of the vague term of "Justice System" as the but of criticism does seem to blur those lines in an unfortunate fashion.
Civil Rights Leaders, of all people, should be at the forefront of those who understand the crucial distinctions between unfair laws, unfair enforcement of otherwise fair laws, and unfair application of fair laws. It would be unhelpful of them to channel very understandable anger in the wrong direction. I hope they are not doing that.
Nick Havoc - September 20, 2007 01:46 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Dinky Jo @ Sep 20 2007, 08:32 AM) |
| Well, looking at MJTs article, there appears to be a case of different standards of justice - the white kids should have been prosecuted (do you have a crime of inciting racial hatred over there?) and excluded from school, the black kids shouldn't have been charged with attempted murder but with assault or whatever. But i don't think that the fact should be lost that both sides did something wrong...... :unsure: |
I would think there would be some law that could be used to charge the kids who hung the nooses from the tree, but that is what the local prosecutor is claiming, that they were not charged, because there was not a law on the books that applied to what they did. They were suspended from school, but not permanently expelled.
The attempted murder charges were, IMO, excessive, but they were dropped down to lesser charges some time ago. The NY Times article also suggests that the two incidents were more closely related than they were. The noose incident apparently aggravated racial tensions in the town, but there were several months in-between that and the white student getting beaten. They were not directly related, but rather are examples of the different treatment. I think the punishment for doing a hateful display really should be less severe than for physically assaulting someone, though. It's so hard in a case like this to say what level of punishment is "equal" for two such very different acts.
Nick Havoc - September 20, 2007 05:23 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (barrystar @ Sep 20 2007, 08:41 AM) |
| Civil Rights Leaders, of all people, should be at the forefront of those who understand the crucial distinctions between unfair laws, unfair enforcement of otherwise fair laws, and unfair application of fair laws. It would be unhelpful of them to channel very understandable anger in the wrong direction. I hope they are not doing that. |
I think you've hit on exactly the part of it that concerns me. It's all over the news here, of course, and you see signs and t-shirts with a "Free the Jena 6" slogan. Rather than wanting true justice and equality, it seems that many people would be happy just to see these students get released.
I haven't even heard Jackson or Sharpton say anything about pushing for a law that would make racially-charged displays like the nooses in the tree a criminal act. It seems to be more about, "They got off with a slap on the wrist for that, so these boys who beat another student unconscious should get off easy, too."
:unsure:
SuperBRAT - September 20, 2007 11:50 PM (GMT)
Having read up, there is absolutely no question that the civil rights movement should be involved, and thank god that they are or else this nonsense would be swept under the carpet. Anyone who thinks their involvement is wrong needs a serious reality check .Get real guys.
And it's hardly surprising that they are, given that white kids are still hanging nooses under trees because black people sit under them when historically they were only for whites. How abhorrent is that? Completely and utterly disgusting, words cannot describe how disgraceful it is. Whether it is down to racism or not, there is clearly an abuse of the justice system here in both the actual and comparative treatment of the black kids involved. That, coupled with the fact that race hate crimes of the most obscene order are not prosecuted, is an absolute disgrace in a country that considers itself civilised and a world leader. Statutory racial discrimination was only erdadicated less than 50 years ago, so I'd expect better effort terms of promoting racial tolerance and equal opportunites. They clearly have not been effective in this area if teenagers are imitating the actions of the evil Klu Klux Klan. America should be doing some serious soul searching right now. This event will gather synpathy around the world and rightly so, and I'm very pleased as a British person that one of our most successful citizens, David Bowie, has got involved. :ok:
Teenagers don't just put nooses in trees because they feel like it, this stems from a serious flaw in their education and socialisation. They learn such things from racist people and the fact that this level of racism still exists is alarming. It's similar to people wearing Swatikas in Germany. In this country such a joke would be beyond belief and they would be made a real example of. Every nation has it's racism, stemming from fear and xenophobia. Britain was a place where we had not had such a diverse racial mix as the US until many years later. There was a sudden influx of immigrant workers in the middle of the last decade, making many feel uneasy, my father being a prime example coming from a small all white community. And I recall my mother, who went to senior school in the early 1960s, finding it odd that black people were around in great numbers as she had only ever had one in her class throughout her whole schooling. Anyway, my dad used to sound like a racist, but like most other Brits he got used to the change in culture and adapted. We had Jamiacan and Pakistani neighbours and then he realised that such people were not a threat. It took a while for new races to integrate and be accepted here and considering we are such a small island this has been very successful. I'm only using my family as an example as it's my experience and I think quite representative of the experience of that generation, and in many ways Britian as whole. I find ti very difficult to accept that America stil has suc extreme racist issues. :(
In some ways I am not surprised as I have a black friend from Southern USA who has told me a few horror stories. I've also white friend with connections in Alabama. I hate to say this but he heard of an incident a couple of years ago where white people dragged black person a few miles tied to the back of their truck. They got away with it becuase the police ignored it, the police themselves were called an used the terminolgy "worthless n*gger" . when someone complained. My friend was so shocked that he actually asked around and this stuff seems a regular event. The people he knows moved there and are considering returning as they are not comfortable with this aspect of the culture. They have reported several race crimes to the police, only to be warned off. Unbelievable. :yikes:
I am not condoning the black kids' behaviour btw but it is clear that there is a climate of racial tension there and I'm hardly surprised these things happen (although they say it is not a racist crime atacking the white boy but who really knows? of course they'd say that and it needs to be investigated). The whites were not convicted of hate crime though, the blacks I understand were convicted of a crime larger than the norm for what they did (attempted murder but it was plain assault) and at least one of them tried as an adult, and given an unreasonable bond too. And stupidly tried by an all white jury roflmao (don't they have representative ones?) who may have been feeling the strain of their own race with the noose incident. So many things just don't add up to fair and non racist use fo the justice system. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial right, and everyone regardless fo their colour or whaever difference deserves equal treatment right? Or is that just on paper on not in reality? Someone needs to get involved here to highlight and resolove this mess as the authorites have made one huge cock up and they are hardly going to admit it , so it is down to eqaul opps movements to try to kick ass and get it sorted. If they are wrong, then fine, but someone has to step in. We can't have these things brushed under the carpet by politicinas now can we?
End of rant.
Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 12:57 AM (GMT)
I've lived in the US South all my life, and it is not as bad as you suggest. There are still a lot of problems, but it's often portrayed worse by the media than it really is. (Probably similar to the way we see news about ethnic unrest in UK and other European countries at times and get the impression that it's constant ethnic tension there, as well.)
I was never suggesting, btw, that this was not a civil rights issue. It just seems to me that the so-called leaders for civil rights are not doing the right things. They seem bent more on getting these kids off the hook than on fixing the system or improving the racial climate.
Also, none of the kids have been convicted of attempted murder. There was initially a charge of attempted murder, which was later reduced to assault. I'm not sure that the kids have been treaty that much more harshly than they deserved, based on what they did. The hanging of nooses from the "white tree" was clearly a horrible thing to do and evidence of a racist attitude among at least a portion of the white community in the town, not necessarily the prevailing attitude.
Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 01:32 AM (GMT)
SB, Here's an excerpt from a Wikipedia article about racism by country for you to chew on:
| QUOTE |
| Double standard when it comes to interracial crime is significant. The overwheliming majority of interracial crime involves White victims and Black or Hispanic suspects, yet very few of these crimes are classified as "hate crimes." The opposite is assumed when a crime features a White suspect and a minority victim. On Saturday, January 6, 2007, Channon Christian, 21, and Christopher Newsom, 23, of Knoxville, Tennessee, went on a date from which they would never return. On their way to the home of another couple, they were carjacked and kidnapped. Over the next 24 hours they were beaten, gang-raped, tortured, and murdered. Some commentators complained that the murders highlighted a double standard in American journalism: that if Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom had been black and their killers white, their story would have received more attention.[106] |
There's some interesting stuff in there about racism in the UK, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_by_cou...#United_KingdomI'm not condoning either side in the Jena incident, but your view of the situation in American is highly skewed, so I just thought I'd provide some info to balance it a bit.
9mmSuzi - September 21, 2007 06:46 AM (GMT)
:coffee: You would think that in the 21st Century such acts of 'seeming' racial bigotry would be in decline, but evidently that’s not the case. I was actually surprised by that story about the young woman in Virgina as well…she was raped, tortured , made to eat faeces and blood, by six white people including a mother and daughter and a mother and son. Whether they live in a small village or not this is not like even the very Deep South. Virginia is in the middle.....
And there was the radio host Don Imus , earlier this year calling the Rutgers University Girls basketball team Nappy headed Hoes….
Given his celebrity stature a little prudence would be in order...
American and the so called globalized world as a whole...should not delude themselves that racism is a thing of the past… Yes there may be more mixed race children…but such things and those affirmative laws do not change people on the inside… You’ll probably have to search your own soul..and purge yourself from within….
Hopefully, the coming generations will realise once and for all, that skin colour is just a pigmentation, an adaptation to an environmental condition.. and judge people by the nature of their character. But based on experience...that is simple wishful thinking..........
We tend to be afraid of what we don’t know and seemingly want to put every single nuance into a box…and labelled… then we can feel better about ourselves.. and then you talk about democracy....farcicle when the justice system favours one side as opposed to the other...
Democracy is simply put.....the popular opinion of the day..... come tommorrow if that said decision is no longer popular a new one will be passed..... and so on... as someone once said... soon when all freedoms for all are outlawed and inequalities prevail...it is the outlaws that will truely have freedom....
Tenez - September 21, 2007 07:07 AM (GMT)
Much agree 9mm.
Once thing though, I think there is much more to skin colour "that just a pigmentation, an adaptation to an environmental condition.. " but that "much more" makes the beauty, variety of life and this is what basic racist people can't appreciate.
Gav - September 21, 2007 11:37 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (SuperBRAT @ Sep 21 2007, 12:50 AM) |
| Having read up, there is absolutely no question that the civil rights movement should be involved, and thank god that they are or else this nonsense would be swept under the carpet. Anyone who thinks their involvement is wrong needs a serious reality check .Get real guys. |
SB please calm down. I said it was a shame that the civil rights are involved in this, not because I don't think they should be, but because I think the law should have dealt with the white lads who were putting up the nooses as well as the black guys who assaulted the white lad.
barrystar - September 21, 2007 12:11 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Gav @ Sep 21 2007, 11:37 AM) |
| QUOTE (SuperBRAT @ Sep 21 2007, 12:50 AM) | | Having read up, there is absolutely no question that the civil rights movement should be involved, and thank god that they are or else this nonsense would be swept under the carpet. Anyone who thinks their involvement is wrong needs a serious reality check .Get real guys. |
SB please calm down. I said it was a shame that the civil rights are involved in this, not because I don't think they should be, but because I think the law should have dealt with the white lads who were putting up the nooses as well as the black guys who assaulted the white lad.
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Nobody was saying that there was not a role for the Civil Rights movement in this situation - I just hope that it is a focussed and constructive role.
Just to see how important is knowledge of the facts, and what the various parties say, this is how the Jena 6 Website puts it:
| QUOTE |
Dear ColorOfChange.org member,
Last fall in Jena, Louisiana, the day after two Black high school students sat beneath the "white tree" on their campus, nooses were hung from the tree. When the superintendent dismissed the nooses as a "prank," more Black students sat under the tree in protest. The District Attorney then came to the school accompanied by the town's police and demanded that the students end their protest, telling them, "I can be your best friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen."
A series of white-on-black incidents of violence followed, and the DA did nothing. But when a white student was beaten up in a schoolyard fight, the DA responded by charging six black students with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
It's a story that reads like one from the Jim Crow era, when judges, lawyers and all-white juries used the justice system to keep blacks in "their place"--but it's happening today. The families of these young men are fighting back, but the odds are stacked against them. Together, we can make sure their story is told, that this becomes an issue for the Governor of Louisiana, and that justice is provided for the Jena 6. It starts now. Please add your voice
The noose-hanging incident and the DA's visit to the school set the stage for everything that followed. Racial tension escalated over the next couple of months, and on November 30, the main academic building of Jena High School was burned down in an unsolved fire. Later the same weekend, a black student was beaten up by white students at a party. The next day, black students at a convenience store were threatened by a young white man with a shotgun. They wrestled the gun from him and ran away. While no charges were filed against the white man, the students were arrested for the theft of the gun.
That Monday at school, a white student, who had been a vocal supporter of the students who hung the nooses, taunted the black student who was beaten up at the off-campus party and allegedly called several black students "*I am gonna be banned from this board for using a racially offensive word - CC Admin*." After lunch, he was knocked down, punched and kicked by black students. He was taken to the hospital but was released and was well enough to go to a social event that evening.3
Six Black Jena High students, Robert Bailey (17), Theo Shaw (17), Carwin Jones (18), Bryant Purvis (17), Mychal Bell (16) and an unidentified minor, were expelled from school, arrested and charged with second-degree attempted murder. Bail was set so high -- between $70,000 and $138,000 -- that the boys were left in prison for months as families went deep into debt to release them.4
The first trial ended last month, and Mychal Bell, who has been in prison since December, was convicted of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated battery (both felonies) by an all-white jury in a trial where his public defender called no witnesses. During his trial, Mychal's parents were ordered not to speak to the media and the court prohibited protests from taking place near the courtroom or where the judge could see them.
Mychal is scheduled to be sentenced on July 31st, and could go to jail for 22 years.5 Theo Shaw's trial is next. He will finally make bail this week.
The Jena Six are lucky to have parents and loved ones who are fighting tooth and nail to free them. They have been threatened but they are standing strong. We know that if the families have to go it alone, their sons will be a long time coming home. They will lose precious years to Jena's outrageous attempt to maintain a racist status quo. But if we act now, we can make a difference.
Please add your voice to the voices of these families in Jena, and help bring Mychal, Theo, Robert, Carwin, and Bryant home. By clicking below, you can demand that Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco get involved to make sure that justice is served for Mychal Bell, and that DA Reed Walters drop the charges against the 5 boys who have not yet gone to trial. |
I think that since that was published the conviction has been quashed, but I am not sure.
If that is correct in every respect, it does portray the authorities in a very bad light, and my supposition that the law, not the authorities, was an ass may have been wrong. This may have been a situation that would have been better dealt with by a caution for the six people involved - namely acknowleding their criminality, that the offence seems not to have resulted in serious injuries, and that throwing the book at them would be so obviously contrastable with a different approach to others that it would bring justice into disrepute.
If this website is wrong for partial reasons it is horribly irresponsible.
One thing for sure, whoever is charged with restoring or building harmonious race relations in Jena has got a mighty hard job on his/her hands.
SuperBRAT - September 21, 2007 04:21 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick Havoc @ Sep 21 2007, 01:32 AM) |
SB, Here's an excerpt from a Wikipedia article about racism by country for you to chew on:
| QUOTE | | Double standard when it comes to interracial crime is significant. The overwheliming majority of interracial crime involves White victims and Black or Hispanic suspects, yet very few of these crimes are classified as "hate crimes." The opposite is assumed when a crime features a White suspect and a minority victim. On Saturday, January 6, 2007, Channon Christian, 21, and Christopher Newsom, 23, of Knoxville, Tennessee, went on a date from which they would never return. On their way to the home of another couple, they were carjacked and kidnapped. Over the next 24 hours they were beaten, gang-raped, tortured, and murdered. Some commentators complained that the murders highlighted a double standard in American journalism: that if Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom had been black and their killers white, their story would have received more attention.[106] |
There's some interesting stuff in there about racism in the UK, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_by_cou...#United_KingdomI'm not condoning either side in the Jena incident, but your view of the situation in American is highly skewed, so I just thought I'd provide some info to balance it a bit. |
I'm not stupid, I know racism exists in many if not all places. That doesn't mean that I cannot criticise a country where it does exist. Of course we have racism here, but unless anyone gives me evidence to suggest otherwise I feel that Britain is one of the world's more tolerant countries and whilst no way perfect, we do take racism very seriously. In all the years I've been here I've never heard of race hate crimes to compare with some of those that happen elswhere though. It's generally fights and attacks which are of course terrible, and I do remember riots in the 1980s but there was more to that than race, a lot fo political discontent from other groups was involved. My workplace got looted and smashed up. Things do seem to have improved in that department though.
Anything I have heard about racism in the USA is based on information given to me first hand by people who have lived there. A black American friend, native of Texas, who now lives over here. His experience is that the UK is more tolerant and some stories he's told me scared me; he is a Universty doctor and finds himself more employable here also so he's staying now. My other source is a white people from my local area who have emigrated to Alabama; a close friend of mine is a real blues enthusiast/guitarist and fan of the Skynaard so goes out there a lot and sees them. They love the place but the race side is scary and totally alien to them all. Now maybe they are lying, but i doubt it. I'm nto saying that everyone is like that in the USA at all. Like many people though I found some of what I heard absolutely unbelievable, stuff I thought we'd left behind and learnt lessons from. to . Doe sit incence me? Yes of course it does. And moreso comign form a civilised world leading country, whether my views are 'skewed" or not.
Btw thank you for the articles.
SuperBRAT - September 21, 2007 04:34 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick Havoc @ Sep 21 2007, 12:57 AM) |
I've lived in the US South all my life, and it is not as bad as you suggest. There are still a lot of problems, but it's often portrayed worse by the media than it really is. (Probably similar to the way we see news about ethnic unrest in UK and other European countries at times and get the impression that it's constant ethnic tension there, as well.)
I was never suggesting, btw, that this was not a civil rights issue. It just seems to me that the so-called leaders for civil rights are not doing the right things. They seem bent more on getting these kids off the hook than on fixing the system or improving the racial climate.
Also, none of the kids have been convicted of attempted murder. There was initially a charge of attempted murder, which was later reduced to assault. I'm not sure that the kids have been treaty that much more harshly than they deserved, based on what they did. The hanging of nooses from the "white tree" was clearly a horrible thing to do and evidence of a racist attitude among at least a portion of the white community in the town, not necessarily the prevailing attitude. |
Your post came across as though you had some issue with civil rights involvement. I also read a lot of stuff on the net when you posted this, I followed links and a lot fo people in the US seemed to think the same. Then of course there are the ones who think the opposite.
I'm not saying the South is all like that at all. I'm sure it isn't. In terms of how it is portrayed, I expect it does get a bad rap and a worse one that it deserves. I don't reayl knwo how they portray it in the USA, so canto say. Over here though I don't here too many news stories about Southeren racism, in fact the bad ra here is more about the rednecks - but most of that impression comes from movies liek say Texas Chainsaw or Deliverance which are made in the USA. As I said above, anything I've heard came from first hand sources who lived in the USA. I'm not saying you do, but I do feel some parts fo the world including the USA need to wake up to this.
On the treatment of the kids, what I read was that one of them was charged as an adult - that is not correct judicial procedure. They said he was also charged a higher bond that normal. Then of course the comparitive thing that the white kids may nto have beaten anyoen up but what they did was not prosecuted. I don't knwo much about law in the states, but do they have a race hate crime law? Or inciting racial tension/violence law? On bonds, I assume that is bail money? We don't have that here either as otherwise we'd have economic inequality with regards to bail. As far as I know minors cannot be charged as adults. Minors often remain untouched except in exceptional circumstances. t does seem bovious that the judicial system has messed up somewhere. I'm nto sayign the kids don't deserve punishment as they beat a boy up and I do nto condone violence like that. As long as they are punished fairly with correct application fo the law.
Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 04:55 PM (GMT)
I don't know all the details of Louisiana law, but the prosecutor claims that he found the incident with the nooses in the tree as a horrible thing that should be punished, but he did not see a law on the books that applied to it. Of course, there is a big emphasis on freedom of speech in this country, as well, so that I think often blocks laws that would restrict someone else's "free expression", regardless of how offensive the majority of people might find that expression.
So, I'm not sure if the prosecutor had it right or not, but if the boys involved in that really had not broken any law, then they should not have been prosecuted. I believe there should be limits to freedom of speech, though, and this certainly crossed the line, IMO.
I thought I was pretty clear in my earlier posts, but again, what bothers me about the involvement of these civil rights leaders is their message, not the fact that they're involved at all. They're making these kids out to be heros and martyrs and calling for them to be freed. They beat another kid unconscious. That's not something to celebrate. I think they should have been arrested and prosecuted, but if they're juveniles under the law, they should be tried in juvenile court.
Most states, btw, do allow juveniles to be tried as adults, but that is usually only done in particularly violent crimes. This was pretty violent, but probably doesn't rise to the level at which the prosecutors would normally take that step. The prosecutor seems to have been overzealous here. He may have been affected by racism or he may have been just trying to take a hard-line stance to stem the violence. But either way, it was not handled well.
dl04 - September 21, 2007 06:44 PM (GMT)
It still amazes me how the digusting racist attitudes of the south still exist. I mean hanging nooses on trees, what an absolute disgrace to humankind, after all the foundations for racial equality the world has tried to build since the early days of ugly prejudice. I understand how terrible it is that that man was attacked by those black youths, but nothing compares to those horrible racist statements. It's absolutely appaling and sick quite frankly.
The deep south needs a major moral reality check. How can people think things like that are acceptable? :rolleyes: :doh:
SuperBRAT - September 21, 2007 07:09 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick Havoc @ Sep 21 2007, 04:55 PM) |
I don't know all the details of Louisiana law, but the prosecutor claims that he found the incident with the nooses in the tree as a horrible thing that should be punished, but he did not see a law on the books that applied to it. Of course, there is a big emphasis on freedom of speech in this country, as well, so that I think often blocks laws that would restrict someone else's "free expression", regardless of how offensive the majority of people might find that expression.
So, I'm not sure if the prosecutor had it right or not, but if the boys involved in that really had not broken any law, then they should not have been prosecuted. I believe there should be limits to freedom of speech, though, and this certainly crossed the line, IMO.
I thought I was pretty clear in my earlier posts, but again, what bothers me about the involvement of these civil rights leaders is their message, not the fact that they're involved at all. They're making these kids out to be heros and martyrs and calling for them to be freed. They beat another kid unconscious. That's not something to celebrate. I think they should have been arrested and prosecuted, but if they're juveniles under the law, they should be tried in juvenile court.
Most states, btw, do allow juveniles to be tried as adults, but that is usually only done in particularly violent crimes. This was pretty violent, but probably doesn't rise to the level at which the prosecutors would normally take that step. The prosecutor seems to have been overzealous here. He may have been affected by racism or he may have been just trying to take a hard-line stance to stem the violence. But either way, it was not handled well. |
Thanks for clarifying. I agree it is difficult to have total freedom of expression . There is a tricky line to tread between freedom of speech and expression and commiting crime/acts of offence that are detrimental to others. It's the basic argument - what is more important - freedom from OR freedom to? A tricky act to balance indeed, my takeon that is the liberal 'no harm" principle.
I do get your point. I id nto realise that these kids were being martyred to this extent. We are not seeing much coverage of this here, I'm only gettign ym news off the net. I suppose the problem is that now the mistakes with the justice system have occured, they have effectively been wronged in some way and will therefore be martyred. I'm not saying I would not punish them at all though, just as long as they get a fair trial which seems reasonable to me.
Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 07:09 PM (GMT)
I agree with the overall sentiment, dl, but . . . implying that displaying offensive symbols to express racial hatred is somehow incomparably worse than expressing that hatred in the form of physical violence doesn't make sense to me.
And for the record, the vast majority of people, even in the "deep south" don't consider that kind of thing acceptable at all.
SuperBRAT - September 21, 2007 07:10 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (dl04 @ Sep 21 2007, 06:44 PM) |
It still amazes me how the digusting racist attitudes of the south still exist. I mean hanging nooses on trees, what an absolute disgrace to humankind, after all the foundations for racial equality the world has tried to build since the early days of ugly prejudice. I understand how terrible it is that that man was attacked by those black youths, but nothing compares to those horrible racist statements. It's absolutely appaling and sick quite frankly.
The deep south needs a major moral reality check. How can people think things like that are acceptable? :rolleyes: :doh: |
Well I agree entirely dl. It really is outrageous and shocking to me too, hence my expressing my disgust quite forcefully in my post.
Gav - September 21, 2007 07:55 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick Havoc @ Sep 21 2007, 08:09 PM) |
| I agree with the overall sentiment, dl, but . . . implying that displaying offensive symbols to express racial hatred is somehow incomparably worse than expressing that hatred in the form of physical violence doesn't make sense to me. |
I agree entirely. Tha act of actual physical violence is a very serious crime and even though the act of noose hanging is deplorable and disgusting when it comes to actually physical harm to somebody you cannot just put that to the side.
SuperBRAT - September 21, 2007 08:09 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Gav @ Sep 21 2007, 07:55 PM) |
| QUOTE (Nick Havoc @ Sep 21 2007, 08:09 PM) | | I agree with the overall sentiment, dl, but . . . implying that displaying offensive symbols to express racial hatred is somehow incomparably worse than expressing that hatred in the form of physical violence doesn't make sense to me. |
I agree entirely. Tha act of actual physical violence is a very serious crime and even though the act of noose hanging is deplorable and disgusting when it comes to actually physical harm to somebody you cannot just put that to the side.
|
I don't condone physicla violence at all, but in many ways the act of noose hanging scares me and disgusts me more. Being attacked is one thing, and it is nto pleasant at all and I know fromr both personal experience and that of other friends and family. The noose hanging though seems much more sinister and evil. Sinister and evil in what it represents and what followed ti historically, i.e. the murder of a black person, and also sinister and evil in that it was done by children. Lots of kids beat kids up, but not many recreate scenes of evil and death form historic context. If I had kids I'd be much more concerend if they hung the nooses.
mightyjeditribble - September 21, 2007 08:12 PM (GMT)
I'm not really interested in discussing this case too much further, mostly because I don't think anyone here really knows all the facts. The way the incident is described ranges from a schoolyard fight, during which the white student fell and hit his head, to the blacks students ganging up on him and beating him while he was unconscious.
Largely through the way that the noose-hanging was approached by the school and by people in the village, and the harsh indictments handed down to the black students, probably there is no way this can now really be resolved in a neutral manner.
But from what I have read, I have little doubt that there *is* latent racism existent in that town. And not only there, I believe it is still more widespread, particularly in the south of the US but actually in many parts of the world, than many people would think.
The activism of the civil rights movement may seem exaggerated from your point of view, but I believe that from the point of view of people who have grown up with a latent suggestion that they don't have the same rights as others it will look differently. Again, this is something I am hesitant to make a judgment on from my point of view.
And it seems that, without the pressure from the civil rights movement, the charges would not have been reduced in the first place. :shrug:
Anyway, I am withdrawing myself from this debate.
Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 09:43 PM (GMT)
I am highly upset that these kind of incidents still happen from time to time in the area where I live, but I do seem to feel a sense from several posters on here that the US South is rampant with racism and that the UK (though not perfect) is much more tolerant. Maybe that's true, but it wasn't hard at all to search BBC news for a couple minutes and find several stories about racism and racist incidents.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotlan...and/5405722.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...rts/6240941.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in..._on_justice.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in...tion_factor.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ide/5216236.stm Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 09:51 PM (GMT)
BTW, not trying to start any kind of my country is better/worse than your country kind of thing. I've just sensed a little bit of finger-pointing at the US and wanted to emphasize that this is something we all have to deal with, whether it's black/white, Christian/Muslim, gay/straight, Sunni/Shea, Hutu/Tutsi, Catholic/Protestant and on and on.
My original criticisms of some of the civil rights leaders here were that I feel that some of the response is counterproductive and not really addressing the root issue, not that they should look the other way.
Dinky Jo - September 21, 2007 09:52 PM (GMT)
I don't know about the US but there's certainly racial inequalities over here, and racial incidents - although more likely to be related to asians i think. In temrs of the criminal justice system, Blacks are more likely to be stopped and searched, more likely to be arrested, more likely to end up in jail and for longer sentences than whites. They are also more likely to be excluded from scool, more likely to be unemployed etc etc. You've gotta remember that in 2001 there were "race riots" in Oldham and Bradford, which had a lot to do with the discrimination that young Asians felt......
I think it's sad that in this day and age ANYONE should be discriminated against because of the colour on their skin - whether it's in the deep south of America or in the north of England. In the UK we have a certain advantage in that there is a crime of incitement to racial hatred, which means that something like the noose-hanging would be punishable by law :shrug:
styeffo - September 21, 2007 09:56 PM (GMT)
"Last fall in Jena, Louisiana, the day after two Black high school students sat beneath the "white tree" on their campus, nooses were hung from the tree. When the superintendent dismissed the nooses as a "prank," more Black students sat under the tree in protest. The District Attorney then came to the school accompanied by the town's police and demanded that the students end their protest, telling them, "I can be your best friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen."
A series of white-on-black incidents of violence followed, and the DA did nothing. But when a white student was beaten up in a schoolyard fight, the DA responded by charging six black students with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder."
If that is 100% accurate then it's totally unbalanced...... :angry:
To be fair i think the DA's attitude with this statement "I can be your best friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen." is pretty telling, not the sort of person i'd like in authority.....
Nick Havoc - September 21, 2007 11:07 PM (GMT)
Does sound pretty bad, but I don't know anything about that particular website that it was pulled from, so it may or may not be a slanted view of the actual events.
BIG-TODGER - September 22, 2007 12:42 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (barrystar @ Sep 20 2007, 07:41 AM) |
The only remedy would have been to make sure that the both the noose hangers and the beaters up are brought to justice.
It appears that the the noose hangers did not commit a crime in Louisiana. That is deplorable, as recognised by the prosecutor. It is not a reason for avoiding trying the others, but it is a reason for ENORMOUS shame on the part of the State of Lousiana (a state with a track record I believe) and for changing the law pdq. It is also flabbergasting that they were not excluded from school, in fact it is horrendous that the School was either unaware of, or did nothing about, there being a "white tree". That is something that should have been stamped on by anyone in authority who knew about it and had the power to do something.
The Civil Rights campaigners therefore have a contribution to make on a number of levels. Unfortunately, that means that much of their contribution can only be seen as closing the stable door after the horse has bolted in the sense that the noose hangers will escape a trial. That is obviously unsatisfactory and frustrating (putting it mildly).
|
Of course hanging a noose in a tree in that part of the world has clear symbolism and was done to generate a particular reaction-the perpetrators committed a vile act-but one designed to inflame sensibilities, however the law must distinguish between acts of rhetoric and acts against the person.
If we want a world where the law is invoked every time a person or group of people give offence-then that law has to be even handed, and the consequences must be addressed.
I dislike hard core gangster rap-for the anti gay, ant police, anti women, anti jew sentiments often portrayed-quite explicitly-does that mean it should be banned or the perpetrators brought before the law? Death metal, the views of many political and religious groups if find exceptional in their offensiveness, but i don't advocate the law should regulate their behaviour or what they say-that is the route to totalitarianism. Imagine a society in which all offence was prohibited-no political or religious discourse could possibly exist.
the antidote to crass offensiveness , dangerous views and unacceptable ideas is to undermine them intellectually-show them for the insubstantial worthless bullshit they really are. Making laws to fit specific cases is ultimately counter-productive politically , and produces reactionary intolerance by groups who would revel in it's injustice.
The noble thing for students who took offence at the nooses, would have been to draw attention to the act and denounce it-rise above the event and show it and it's creators for what they really are. The School should also have taken action earlier too, it is a agree flabbergasting that the racial unrest went unnoticed and unchallenged.
The point about incitement to violence is a red herring too, incitement has to be a clear unequivocal command, or order to act-aimed specifically at one group by another group-nooses are not that-however much offence they give.
Louisiana has the same problem, that the rest of the United States, and we in the UK have, and that is tensions between different racial groups that seem far from being resolved, and my be worsening but the Louisiana incident is merely the symptom of an that underlying problem.
The vertiginous, over-reaction both by students and those eager to turn this into a civil rights issue-is not the way to deal with bigotry.
Pretending that causing offence is the same as beating the crap out of someone isn't either.
SuperBRAT - September 22, 2007 11:15 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (styeffo @ Sep 21 2007, 09:56 PM) |
"Last fall in Jena, Louisiana, the day after two Black high school students sat beneath the "white tree" on their campus, nooses were hung from the tree. When the superintendent dismissed the nooses as a "prank," more Black students sat under the tree in protest. The District Attorney then came to the school accompanied by the town's police and demanded that the students end their protest, telling them, "I can be your best friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen."
A series of white-on-black incidents of violence followed, and the DA did nothing. But when a white student was beaten up in a schoolyard fight, the DA responded by charging six black students with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder."
If that is 100% accurate then it's totally unbalanced...... :angry:
To be fair i think the DA's attitude with this statement "I can be your best friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen." is pretty telling, not the sort of person i'd like in authority..... |
Well i didn;t knwo all that Stef and now I do, I reinforce my original stance.
Nick Havoc - September 23, 2007 01:53 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (barrystar @ Sep 21 2007, 07:11 AM) |
Just to see how important is knowledge of the facts, and what the various parties say, this is how the Jena 6 Website puts it:
| QUOTE | Dear ColorOfChange.org member,
Last fall in Jena, Louisiana, the day after two Black high school students sat beneath the "white tree" on their campus, nooses were hung from the tree. When the superintendent dismissed the nooses as a "prank," more Black students sat under the tree in protest. The District Attorney then came to the school accompanied by the town's police and demanded that the students end their protest, telling them, "I can be your best friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen."
A series of white-on-black incidents of violence followed, and the DA did nothing. But when a white student was beaten up in a schoolyard fight, the DA responded by charging six black students with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
It's a story that reads like one from the Jim Crow era, when judges, lawyers and all-white juries used the justice system to keep blacks in "their place"--but it's happening today. The families of these young men are fighting back, but the odds are stacked against them. Together, we can make sure their story is told, that this becomes an issue for the Governor of Louisiana, and that justice is provided for the Jena 6. It starts now. Please add your voice
The noose-hanging incident and the DA's visit to the school set the stage for everything that followed. Racial tension escalated over the next couple of months, and on November 30, the main academic building of Jena High School was burned down in an unsolved fire. Later the same weekend, a black student was beaten up by white students at a party. The next day, black students at a convenience store were threatened by a young white man with a shotgun. They wrestled the gun from him and ran away. While no charges were filed against the white man, the students were arrested for the theft of the gun.
That Monday at school, a white student, who had been a vocal supporter of the students who hung the nooses, taunted the black student who was beaten up at the off-campus party and allegedly called several black students "*I am gonna be banned from this board for using a racially offensive word - CC Admin*." After lunch, he was knocked down, punched and kicked by black students. He was taken to the hospital but was released and was well enough to go to a social event that evening.3
Six Black Jena High students, Robert Bailey (17), Theo Shaw (17), Carwin Jones (18), Bryant Purvis (17), Mychal Bell (16) and an unidentified minor, were expelled from school, arrested and charged with second-degree attempted murder. Bail was set so high -- between $70,000 and $138,000 -- that the boys were left in prison for months as families went deep into debt to release them.4
The first trial ended last month, and Mychal Bell, who has been in prison since December, was convicted of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated battery (both felonies) by an all-white jury in a trial where his public defender called no witnesses. During his trial, Mychal's parents were ordered not to speak to the media and the court prohibited protests from taking place near the courtroom or where the judge could see them.
Mychal is scheduled to be sentenced on July 31st, and could go to jail for 22 years.5 Theo Shaw's trial is next. He will finally make bail this week.
The Jena Six are lucky to have parents and loved ones who are fighting tooth and nail to free them. They have been threatened but they are standing strong. We know that if the families have to go it alone, their sons will be a long time coming home. They will lose precious years to Jena's outrageous attempt to maintain a racist status quo. But if we act now, we can make a difference.
Please add your voice to the voices of these families in Jena, and help bring Mychal, Theo, Robert, Carwin, and Bryant home. By clicking below, you can demand that Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco get involved to make sure that justice is served for Mychal Bell, and that DA Reed Walters drop the charges against the 5 boys who have not yet gone to trial. |
I think that since that was published the conviction has been quashed, but I am not sure.
If that is correct in every respect, it does portray the authorities in a very bad light, and my supposition that the law, not the authorities, was an ass may have been wrong. This may have been a situation that would have been better dealt with by a caution for the six people involved - namely acknowleding their criminality, that the offence seems not to have resulted in serious injuries, and that throwing the book at them would be so obviously contrastable with a different approach to others that it would bring justice into disrepute.
If this website is wrong for partial reasons it is horribly irresponsible.
One thing for sure, whoever is charged with restoring or building harmonious race relations in Jena has got a mighty hard job on his/her hands.
|
I tried to do a bit of research after reading that, as it does come from a potentially biased website. It's not completely inaccurate, but it's only presenting one side of the story, and there are some things left out. For instance:
There was a convenience store incident, but it was the black youths who were arrested that made the claim to have been attacked by the white youth who had the shotgun. Other eye witness accounts confirmed the opposite story, that the white kid was robbed by the other three and tried to defend himself with the gun, but they wrestled it away from him.
It also doesn't meantion that part of the reason for trying Mr. Bell as an adult was that he had been convicted a year earlier of assault in juvenile court in a separate incident and also committed three other violent crimes while on probation. So this was actually his fifth conviction.
SuperBRAT - September 23, 2007 01:55 AM (GMT)
Btw Nick, I typed quite a long post in reply to on eof yours. There was a glitch in the baord and I lost it so as I've had a few Davis Cup celebratory drinks I'll try and redo it later. Shame as I made a lot of effort on it.
Nick Havoc - September 23, 2007 02:25 AM (GMT)
The Wikipedia record on this incident is a good source for a balance view of what really happened. I sometimes take Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but this seems to be a pretty good article, with most claims being backed up with good references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_SixIt was interesting reading some of the discussion of the article. There is some suggestion that the ropes hung from the tree were not even a racist statement at all, but were rather lassos in the school colors hung as a statement about the upcoming football game against the "Mustangs." There didn't seem to be a reliable reference for that, though. (Although there was a reference that confirmed the school colors part.)
SuperBRAT - September 24, 2007 02:24 PM (GMT)
Of course racism exists everywhere. I think the difference though bewteen the Uk and the USA is to do with history and that makes it more alarming to us over here. I'm not an expert on US history but I understand that the slave trade was huge over there and black people were treated like animals, had no rights, were raped, tortured, abused phsycially and sexually, and were expendable. When slavery was abolished though black people were still viewed as second class citizens and there were laws that reinforced this, banning black people from white only areas for eg. Racist groups like the KKK also existed (and still do as far as I know) and carried out racist acts of the most atrocious nature, including murder, even after black people became recognised as equal to whites. Now in this country we've never had anything this frequent adn extreme as far I know. There was no legisaltion to say that black people had less rights than whites, and sadly we were involved in the trasnportation side with the slave trade (there's been recent stuff about this on the news) but again as far as I know we did not actively import slaves to this country, lock them up, treat them like animals, etc. Nor have we had scenes of KKK type violence to the extent of that in the USA. Of course there have been racist attitudes here, and there still are, but 50years ago we did not have whites only schools and the likes, nor people being hung from nooses in trees.
The problem is that the USA has played a major role in racism towards blacks and very directly, using slavery and unequal legislation. This was not so long ago either and it is obvious that soem people don't accept racial equality even today, the KKK still exist and so do their racially violent crimes. The nature of racism in the USA in history compared to over here is just so much more extreme and widespread over the course of recent hsitory, not to mention more organised through race hate groups like KKK and socially and legally acceptable. I don't think you can get away from that really.
Nick Havoc - September 24, 2007 02:59 PM (GMT)
Our histories are different, but heavily intertwined, so I'm just suggesting that you be careful when throwing stones at another country or culture. Most of what you say above is true. (Though not all slaves were tortured and treaty like animals; there were many landowners who treated their slaves well. That doesn't justify the slavery by any means, but it is wrong to say with a broad brush that slaves were raped, beaten and treated like animals.) And I do believe you are understating Britain's role in establishing the slavery system in the early colonies and capturing and transporting African natives to the "New World" for that purpose.
There are a lot of ugly parts of US history, and it's fair to point them out, but don't whitewash your own country's history.
Oh, and the one story I linked was about fans at a football match donning white hoods invoking images of the KKK. That should be just as disturbing as someone in the US doing the same. It's invoking the same history, even if the history did occur here.
barrystar - September 24, 2007 04:12 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (BIG-TODGER @ Sep 22 2007, 12:42 PM) |
| QUOTE (barrystar @ Sep 20 2007, 07:41 AM) | The only remedy would have been to make sure that the both the noose hangers and the beaters up are brought to justice.
It appears that the the noose hangers did not commit a crime in Louisiana. That is deplorable, as recognised by the prosecutor. It is not a reason for avoiding trying the others, but it is a reason for ENORMOUS shame on the part of the State of Lousiana (a state with a track record I believe) and for changing the law pdq. It is also flabbergasting that they were not excluded from school, in fact it is horrendous that the School was either unaware of, or did nothing about, there being a "white tree". That is something that should have been stamped on by anyone in authority who knew about it and had the power to do something.
The Civil Rights campaigners therefore have a contribution to make on a number of levels. Unfortunately, that means that much of their contribution can only be seen as closing the stable door after the horse has bolted in the sense that the noose hangers will escape a trial. That is obviously unsatisfactory and frustrating (putting it mildly).
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Of course hanging a noose in a tree in that part of the world has clear symbolism and was done to generate a particular reaction-the perpetrators committed a vile act-but one designed to inflame sensibilities, however the law must distinguish between acts of rhetoric and acts against the person.
If we want a world where the law is invoked every time a person or group of people give offence-then that law has to be even handed, and the consequences must be addressed.
I dislike hard core gangster rap-for the anti gay, ant police, anti women, anti jew sentiments often portrayed-quite explicitly-does that mean it should be banned or the perpetrators brought before the law? Death metal, the views of many political and religious groups if find exceptional in their offensiveness, but i don't advocate the law should regulate their behaviour or what they say-that is the route to totalitarianism. Imagine a society in which all offence was prohibited-no political or religious discourse could possibly exist.
the antidote to crass offensiveness , dangerous views and unacceptable ideas is to undermine them intellectually-show them for the insubstantial worthless bullshit they really are. Making laws to fit specific cases is ultimately counter-productive politically , and produces reactionary intolerance by groups who would revel in it's injustice.
The noble thing for students who took offence at the nooses, would have been to draw attention to the act and denounce it-rise above the event and show it and it's creators for what they really are. The School should also have taken action earlier too, it is a agree flabbergasting that the racial unrest went unnoticed and unchallenged.
The point about incitement to violence is a red herring too, incitement has to be a clear unequivocal command, or order to act-aimed specifically at one group by another group-nooses are not that-however much offence they give.
Louisiana has the same problem, that the rest of the United States, and we in the UK have, and that is tensions between different racial groups that seem far from being resolved, and my be worsening but the Louisiana incident is merely the symptom of an that underlying problem.
The vertiginous, over-reaction both by students and those eager to turn this into a civil rights issue-is not the way to deal with bigotry.
Pretending that causing offence is the same as beating the crap out of someone isn't either.
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As so often with your posts - much that is thought-provoking and plain right.
When I think about it (prompted by you) it is not as straightforward as the initial irritation made me want to believe to frame a crime of hanging the nooses which does not get us bogged down into the mire of freedom of speech.
I agree that the best thing would have been for the black students to draw attention to the nooses and the ghastly tradition of the "white tree" and for the school authorities to do something about it - exclude the perpetrators perhaps - and stop this "white tree" business for once and for all.
Here is where I go majorly off piste so to speak because we none of us know exactly what happened. It seems from some reports I have read that the school authorities, for whatever reason, did not do anything like that. Folks then react badly, and the local DA turns up and tells them he can squash them like flies if they continue creating a stink. If that's right - talk about pouring petrol on the fire.
I completely agree that beating someone up is a totally different kettle of fish from insulting people.
If I beat someone up because I was provoked, it is up to me to take responsibility for my actions and my victimhood as an offended party is not the same as the predicament of the person I beat up.
If I am in a position of authority and I see provocation and it does not take a great deal of imagination to work out where it may end I have a responsibility to address the provocation, its source, and to take steps to prevent the continued cause of offence.
There are a number of unfortunate actors in this story from my perspective of having read only a few articles:
The noose-hangers - obvious. Perhaps it is not sensible to frame a crime to book them with, but social pariah-status and disciplinary action by the school is what one might hope for
The DA - acting in a way that seems initially to have increased the anger if those reports are true
The Jena 6 - if this was a school-yard fight I think "so what" - if this was a nasty beating then they must answer for it and it is very irresponsible for the website to portray it otherwise.
Some campaigners - it is vitally important to be factually accurate and focussed in your criticisms to avoid irresponsibly stirring up the pot. It is not clear to me that all are doing this.
The media - for loving every minute of it.