just want to say respect to Leicester City for their sporting behaviour the other day

:ok:


For those who don't know, Leics were playing Notts Forest and a previous tie was postponed due to a player collapsing with a heart attack when NF were leading 1-0.

In the replay, Leics allowed the Notts Forest goalie to take kick off and score unimpeded.

Wish we could see more of that rather than the mamby pamby rolling around trying to get other players sent off that is all too often seen in football these days

I thought it was a great gesture for sure.... and unless I am mistaken they went on to win 3-2 as well. Fair play and good football.... great stuff, need more of that in the game.

The game of football is a monster. It is far too dominant!

It is tied too tightly to money and local/ national esteeem.

The stakes are therefore too high. People will do whatever it takes to win.

And for players and supporters alike, winning is everything, and losing means that the whole world has fallen about them.

It's tribal, often violent (if not physically then certainly verbally).

Check stats at the next world cup. Nationalist tendencies increase in countries during this tournament. Makes the Davis Cup/ Fed Cup look tame by comparison.

Oh, and I would disagree with your 'these days' comment. This lack of sportsmanship is not recent. Has been this way for 30 years, at least.

Anyway, back to your point. Well, maybe it is fair play, and kudos to both teams for this, but the game only has itself to blame for being graceless and unsporting. Why doesn't it protect the officials more, for example? They are in Rugby, Cricket and indeed Tennis, for example, where players are punished for showing disrespect. Oh, that can apply to showing disrespect to other players too. But money rules and it has become a monster where toothless governing bodies chase the euro, dollar, pound or whatever..

Bah, humbug! etc.. ;)

The gesture by my team (Leicester) was an excellent one. It confused a lot of people though, as Milan Madaric (Leicester owner) only informed the forest players of it a couple of minutes before kickoff!

Forest were great when this terrible business with Clarkey happened, so I had no problems with what they did. Incidentally, in the game, Leicester equalised before half time, only for forest to take the lead again just after the hour mark.

Then, out of nowhere, leicester snatached two goals in the last five minutes to sneak the win! :D

Imagine the laugh if he'd gone through and missed the empty net :D

money has taken a lot of the genuine honesty out of most sports sadly, not just football. This looks like a direct attack on football alone, which is a little unjustified in my opinion.

Thank you whoever is moderating at the moment for the speed the posts are coming through! :D

there's a few of us online at the moment :D but if my boss comes back, you may have to wait for a bit...... :P

btw, really nice gesture in this match - it's always nice to read good stories coming out of football rather than the usual "so and so stepped on my toe" rubbish! :P

Just another point, i was forced by a friend of mine to watch the England vs. Germany friendly, and I was really really surprised by how nice it was. No diving, no writhing around on the floor, no demanding yellow cards, free kicks or anything else. It's obviously when there's a need to win that the sportsmanship comes in to play :shrug:

Why not attack football? :shrug:

It is a bloated, complacent, self-satisfied almost corporate exercise these days.

And not above criticism. ;)

If you think that my comments are unfair, then feel free to say why. Is it really just like any other sport, as you say??

And yes, money rules in all sports. And gamesmanship exists too. However, I think that you will be hard pressed to single out another sport where what should be good qualities in sport have been lost for so long.

To be fair, I think that says a lot about those two countires - generally they don't indulge in a lot of the nastier things in the game, they just get on with it :)

I still think you are a little naive thinking football is the only sport to suffer from such problems petalp

I didn't say that football was the only sport to suffer from this! That would be different.

It would be interesting to hear you expand on your thoughts as I haven't heard anything convincing to contradict what I said. :)

Also England v Germany? When England lost fo Germany in Euro 96, people near my parents' house went looking for German cars to turn over. Also this '2 world wars, one world cup' rubbish? England has anti German tendencies that show in football matches (an 'anyone but Germany' mentality).. competitive tournament ones. They need to get over it.

I have to agree with you there Petalp - when I was watching the England vs. germany friendly, my mate said "do they really think you can call a match between england and germany friendly"

There;s always loads of "who won the war" crap in the papers around the time of any England vs. Germany match, which infuriates me. And I'm not entirely sure that England don't indulge in the diving/demanding free kicks and general gamesmanship which every other football team does........ :nope:

No, they dont Petalp. The rivalry is very special, even to the Germans (though they pretend otherwise!).

Football does of course suffer with the hooligan element, but then that is more due to societys problems than football.

I don't think we're as squeaky clean as we once were, but England players certainly aren't 11 divers either.

The germans have moved on as a country and are probably just as thankful as us that we won the war anyway! It's always going to be a special match no matter what people say, especially as it is one of the great modern football rivalries too. We've had the epic 1966 world cup final, the emotional 1990 world cup semi final, the gutting (if you're english) Euro 96 semifinal.

Now you are being naive Sam.

Germans don't sing anti English songs at football matches. English supporters do.

And the German folk that I have spoken to have epxressed bewilderment at this.

I agree but dishonesty and bad behaviour is directly proportional to money involved and there is lots of money in football.

I have always wondered why such a big sport would not use replay and I am convinced having watched quite a few previous world cups that the close calls, like an off-side or penalty decisions, want to be kept in the hands of FiFa and not the truth.

'In fairness'?

You imply that had Germany won the war, they would be singing about it at a football match too?

Why should any war come into this? Why should the Malvinas come into play in 1986? It's not just the English of course. Bullying of English children in Scotland doubled during the 2002 world cup. Italian football has big issues with fascist groups. Buenos Aires/ River Plate... Drug cartels killing referees in Columbia in 1988-1989.. the killing of Escobar after 1994 world cup.

Doesn't make for great reading, does it? And just to quote one on-field example linked ot the above.. The Hand of God.. Alf Ramsay referring to Argentinian players as 'animals'.

And that goes back to the 80s and 60s respectively. Again, sportsmanship issues. It is not new at all.

And I wish the the British were more like the Germans. A lot of people went over to Germany in 2006 World Cup with prejudices about the Germans and were surprised that this was nothing like what they were expecting.

The way that even the likes of Gary Linekar goes on about 'the Germans' on the bbc is appalling. It almost provides people with justification for their prejudices.

Lex, I think that this is just an illustration of how football is too closely linked to national prestige. There has always been a propaganda element to sport, but much of the poor sportsmanship element in the game becomes linked to disliking of other countries and serves to reinforce prejudices.

Even going arond the UK, you will find supporters of Henman.. english. Supporters of Murray. Scottish.. but then how things changed during the last World Cup when Murray made the comment about the England team. It was very nasty on the old beeb board, lots of nationalistic, jingoistic rubbish..

Gary Lineker is only ever being tongue in cheek about the German's because we always lose to them on penalties! Nothing more in my opinion. I'd rather have him presenting than someone with no sense of humour at all.

And as Lex says, lets not make this a war thread.

Could be.. but sometimes what one person describes as 'only a bit of fun' can be misperceived by others.

Just saying that one should be careful.

Yes, this should not become a war thread.

The key issues are still about sportsmanship, but also how this can translate to behaviour of people who follow the game.. then money.. also the media.. it's all interlinked..

Mod note: I've split some of the posts about the war and put them in a new thread in deuce bar :ok:

thanks Jo :hug:

I do think Petalp that you are trying to use every concievable idea to have a go at football. Don't know why, but you are!

Petalp, I notice you haven't bothered to respond to this post, maybe it says something else for you...

to be fair Sam i think PP had left.

PP had put a post down way after I originally put that in...

Ah ok.. my bad.

I split the thread earlier - there's a new thread with a discussion about world war 2 in the deuce bar. i wanted to keep the football and war talk separate, but I may have moved some posts which were relevant to both :blush:

right, i've now put a couple of posts back which are probably more relevant to this thread. it's not going to read perfectly I'm afraid, but hopefully we can keep the football chat here and the war chat in the deuce bar :ok:

Yep that was a very good idea Jo - I just didn't like the fact that "PP" was having a dig at football for 100,000 different reasons, on a thread that was actually on a very positive note.

Forest vs. Leicester is a very fierce rivalry, especially to the Leicester fans, and they must have been bewildered to start with, but they all responded in unison with a standing ovation. That's the inner spirit of football.

Football at championship level and below is largely the same as all those years ago, honest pros giving their all for their clubs, yet still behaving like human beings. The two goalkeepers shared a quick hug after that goal on Tuesday!

Sam, I had left. Maybe your comment says something for you?

You haven't exactly responded to my posts. Still can't see your defence for the sport.

And I see nothing wrong with attacking football from numerous angles. And I see nothing wrong with attacking it on this thread.

Why? You might ask.

Well. The thread was talking about sportsmanship in general and in football in particular.

There is an agreed comment that there is a lack of sportsmanship in football.

So far, so what.

The thing is, football IS dominant. Then surely it has MORE of a responsilities for players to behave, show acts of sportsmanship, or more to the point to be made to behave.

It doesn't happen. For example, Footballers are allowed to be abusive to referees because they can.

Doesn't set a good example when they have such a high profile, does it??

You follow Rugby and Cricket Sam. You know that if a player were to swear at a referee as much as footballers do, then they would be punished severely for that.

So why are footballers allowed to do this?

As a result, the supporters become abusive to referees too. 'The referee's a ******'. Doesn't happen in other sports.

Then the managers blame the referee too in post-match interviews.

Lots of ill-tempered childish, spiteful stuff.

Then the way that the players behave towards each other. Nasty. Gets refelcted on the terraces, on the streets, in the media.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't bring the England v Germany stuff into this. You had the naivity to describe it as purely a sporting rivalry, conveniently omitting the other stuff that gets brought into it by the tabloids, the supporters.

But anyway, I think that you should try to refrain from making any furher digs at me in other posts that you have made. I haven't made this personal, so why should you??

I honestly think that some of the allowances made in football (bad language, hassling the ref etc) are deliberately being kept in the game. (Let's be honest, a red card for any dissent on the field would soon tone it down a lot ;) ). It's no coincidence that football has long been marketed as the 'sport of the the people' and has embraced the 'working class game' tag that it was given. The same idea has been embraced by other countries and the governing bodies of the sport must be scared of losing popularity if they suddenly clamp down on these things and refine it. They make a huge amount of money from the sport being accessible to the average joe and so it caters to the lowest common denominator.
Can you remember the outcry when Man Utd were blasted for being a prawn sandwiches club? What's wrong with that? Well, it goes against the pie and chips image that football needs to remain the biggest sport.

:lmaao:

Sorry but football fans are nto the stereotypes you portray. Maybe many years ago but not now. Have you seen the price fo a season ticket? Your average joe won't be able to afford one. And a few years back did research not suggest that the average hooligan was a middle class oik. I know people in decent jobs on good money who go to regular matches and sacrifice a huge amount of their income doing so. Supporters aren't all having pie and mash these days but frequenting tappas bars afterwards. :D Yes of course there are working class fans and that was the odl fan base but it's moved on TM, it's big business and it is an expensive hobby as a result.

Yes, its true, not all football fans are blokes with skinheads and big beer bellies!

Quite a lot of families attend nowadays and most matches pass with no hint of trouble.

I've attended several Premiership matches in my time as a football supporter (including a few Man Utd-Leeds clashes at Elland Road) and I've never seen any trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I realise that the sport is not cheap to watch live any more, but I am talking about the image of the game. Part of the popularity of the game comes from the fact that it is accessible to everyone (and I don't just mean live - look at the TV coverage in pubs). I realise that not every fan at a game is still wearing their coal mining overalls along with a flat cap, but the sport cleverly puts prices up but keeps marketing all about the passion of the game and, as I think I said previously, embraces the image and history of being a working class sport. They have done a good job. Tennis is still viewed by many as being elitist, whereas going to a top flight football match is more expensive than many tickets to Wimbledon. :blink:

Source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7023193.stm


Punish top players first - Poll

Poll says player behaviour influences those at grass-roots level

Former Premier League referee Graham Poll says the Football Association's decision to tackle bad behaviour from the grass-roots upwards is mistaken.
Poll agrees action must be taken but says a stronger message will come from harsher punishments for top players.

"It should be from the top down not the bottom up," he told Radio 5live.

"Kids idolise stars they see on Match of the Day, they emulate their skills, but they also emulate their actions, which are often not so great."

The FA plans to launch a pilot scheme that is part of a wider programme aimed at improving the behaviour of players, parents and spectators.

"It's not going to change the world but I am determined to make an impact - and I'll do it," FA chief executive Brian Barwick told 5live.

The three main components of the scheme to be launched in nine regions from next January are:

Only the team captain will be allowed to speak with the referee.

Roped-off areas will be introduced at junior matches so 'over-indulgent or abusive' parents cannot direct their bile at the referee.

All players and club officials will be forced to sign a 'memorandum of understanding' noting the standards of behaviour that will be expected.

Barwick added: "These things are done better through discussion rather than a big stick but we want to stop the situation getting out of hand.

"There is a lot of emotion and passion in the game but you only have to look at a sport like rugby to see there seems to be a certain level of respect for the officials.

"That sets a marker down for our game because the treatment of referees is a really serious issue and something we have to deal with."

In my experience, over many years of coaching, the players coming through are less disciplined every year

Barwick's stance has been backed by England coach Steve McClaren, who was once forced to resign as president of a local club because of the behaviour of parents.

"In my opinion, this thing has to start at the bottom," he said.

"In my experience, over many years of coaching, the players coming through are less disciplined every year and instilling the discipline required into them is getting harder and harder."

McClaren said a certain amount of dissent was inevitable in the heat of the moment, but insisted that players should be disciplined enough to know where to draw the line.

"You can't take passion away. We understand there are moments when passion boils over," he added.

"Discipline is the key word for me and my football team. If you don't have discipline in your team, then you don't have control and if you're not in control it can cost you a game.

"It should be one thing that you can control. It's one thing we work on every day."

Meanwhile, Barwick says he has been "banging down the doors" of football's world and European governing bodies Fifa and Uefa to ensure referees are given extra help with crucial decisions.

Barwick says he is determined to make his mark on English football

"Goal-line technology will ultimately be delivered and the great part of it will be because of the work the FA has done," he said.

Tests are currently being undertaken at Reading's academy on the Hawk-Eye system that has proved so effective in cricket and tennis.

The results will be evaluated by the Premier League and Fifa, but Barwick is determined to come up with a way of determining beyond all doubt whether a ball has crossed the goal-line or not.

"I would say we are market leaders in trying to do it and now the Premier League are taking it on in terms of experimentation," added Barwick.

"I absolutely buy the fact that when the ball crosses the line, these days it's absolutely imperative that we know it, the referee knows it and he's not the guy with a red face because everybody else at home knows.

"So technology, yes, the right technology, yes, goal-line technology, absolutely yes."

This piece of news seems to have passed by without much comment..

A lot of debate on this on 606 though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A27496371


When I say debate, amongst the 650+ posts, there is a noticeable lack of opposition to the declaration that something should be done to deal with the behaviour of players. most of the views are saying "It's about time that something should be done!".

I wasn't surprised to read about john Terry's attempt to physically stop a referee from giving a card to a player in a recent match. Has happened before. Not a good example by one of the most prominent players in the country.

Interesting that regardless of what anyone thinks of McClaren, Barwick, or Poll, it IS recognised that player discipline is a major problem throughout the game.

The debate seems to be whether this should be addressed from the top (Premiership) or from the bottom (grass roots)

McLaren comments that year on year the discipline of players coming through has been deteriorating.

I think that this speaks volumes.

It indicates that grass roots should be changed. But then again, the grass roots game is influenced by the top... so change at the top probably needed first I think..