I was surprised to see how well Fed kicked off the second part of the season. He played last week so much better than he did last year in Montreal.
In fact, i was hoping for another Fed-Nad encounter, a win over Nadal would have given him a great deal of momentum to set up for this year's last GS.
But things turned out differently. I knew Djoko's standard is really close to Fed's but i never would have thought he would outplay the Fedster in most of the rallies. Moreover Djoko's style suits Fed's pretty good, didn't it?
It must have been frustrating to Fed that he found himself constantly stuck between 2 evils; he couldn't win any of the crosscourt backhand rallies because Djoko's backhand appeared more consistant, more powerful and placed with more depth so Djoko was time and time again the first to switch to the forehand which resulted oftenly in a instant winner. Fed's alternative wasn't more succesful; hitting it down the line was suicide as Djoko's best shot is the crosscourt winner on the run. So to some extend it was like witnessing another Fed-Nad match; everytime Fed's backhand got involved he lost the point..

Obviously Djoko will continue his way up the rankings and despite Roger's view on things ("Djoko is the second threat after Nadal") i even think Djoko could be the next no.1 instead of Nadal. Call it opportunistic after a single win over Fed but at this stage i can't see Nadal picking up more points on HC than Djoko. Nadal can and will lose to quite a few hard, flat hitters with a strong serve whereas Djoko can deal with every type of play.
It's true, Raffa won Miami in the same fashion like Djoko won Montreal but he will never dominate the last 4/5 months of the season.

Your thoughts?

I very much agree with your post GP. I do think that Djoko will get Nadal's number in the long run and the reason is simple, he has power on both sides so Djoko can easily open the court and tire the current nber 2.

I feel that Federer still does not really like the serb despite claiming they made up since their DC encounter and maybe tries to underestimate him. Yesterday i felt Fed WAS the better player and despite losing, I think he will come stronger from this match.

As much as I love Fed's BH, the final showed that the "beautiful" style (one handed BH) is once more being caught up by modern technics (dble hbh) generating power, precision and consistency Fed can only dream of. Fed is a genius, so he can get away with it, but frankly if he had more power and consistency on this side, he really would be secured at the top for another 2 years. Now it might not be the case.

I can easily see A>B>C>A scenario with those top 3 where Nadal will always be Fed bete noire, while the latter should keep Djoko in control for another year or 2 while Djoko should get the better of Nadal.

We clearly have 3 very strong players now, champion made and that takes us back to a Borg/Lendl/McEnroe time to some extend.

Passionant!.

What was the DC encounter? :blink:

Funny I was thinking the same thing.Maybe Federer will be the last of the great one-handers to grace the game.

The game just requires faster reactions and strong strokes,something the eastern grips can't cope with.
I reckon the claycourt extreme one-handed grip will survive this turn of events.Guga,Gaudio,and Henin styles will stay,but sucess on fast courts for Laver,Sampras,and Federer types will be a thing of the past in 10 years.

Hi T, good to see you back, hope you enjoyed your holiday.

I remember you and i discussed the match up Fed-Djo before they met at the AO. You were a bit worried 'bout the outcome, while i was pretty confident as Fed had such a incredible record against all the hard hitters aka third gear players. As you know both men played a superb match and Fed won convincingly. But that was then.. I guess you were ahead of your time, T ;)
It's hard to tell if Fed dropped a level since then or Djoko improved considerably though. Anyhow; it's clear Djoko's changed gameplan made a big difference.

Another subject of earlier discussions were which young gun would trouble Fed the most. Well, i always said -currently with a little less conviction ;) - that the young guns would trouble Nadal more then Fed. So i hope you're right with the A>B>C>A scenario..

It's true Fed still doesn't like Djoko. He called him a joke during that DC encounter because of his reputation to fake injuries. Fake or not, you can't accuse Djoko of something like that any longer; it doesn't occur anymore. Maybe Fed has some problems with Djoko's outrageous behaviour off court.. Personally i think tennis nowadays could use a character like Djoko.

Hey Brakkus, what's wrong with Youzhny's -even more stylish- backhand ;)

Still, Fed got himself out of that backhand corner in yesterdays second set (just like the last part of this years wimbledon final) so there is hope :whistle:
Problem is; it will take a very high risk game to manage that..

:) I am assuming from what I have read that you guys generally prefer Federer to Nadal...because as much as Djoko defeated the then
top 3 players in the ATP in succession ...actually becoming number before Nadal is assuming Nadal's form dips.

I personally think the consistency level of Nadal and Fed is what keeps them up and there. And least we forget Nadal is really improving on other surfaces. IMO it will be easier for Nadal to switch to dominating on other surfaces than for the others FED, Djoko to switch to dominating
on Clay... Nadal garners most of his points from the clay season..and quite a chunk from grass...Djoko may challenge on grass though....

So I would certainly not dismiss Nadal that easily... I just wonder even if NAdal or Djoko were to be number, how long they could maintain it.
Much like Justine, FEd has a level of grit and focus that makes him consistent. I think that part of his ability is not something you can coach or learn, it is innate. Serena is one ..up and down example, talent is there but wanting to put it to work constantly is another story..

Probably it might oscillate between Fed Djoko and Nadal.....

Hopefully as Fed said he will come good at the Usopen.. I remember Murray beating him in a similar manner from last year but he still won the Usopen tourney. It's all probabilities....I maybe wrong...but I think he will raise his game.

As to why he doesn't like Djoko is a dilemma :shrug: , Cause Nadal doesn't feign injuries however fed doesn't do so well against him either. I think that has more to do with his own personality than anything bad about djoko. Fed is a clinical , get your man type.....Nadal will grind you out to the end just cause he likes the fight... but Djoko, a bit like Marcos Bagd....plays with his heart.... different strokes for different folks :) ...

But stilll yes...I absolutely agree,,, FED Justine, do the one handed back hand justice :clap: ..but even on slower surfaces i think Federer needs to be more clinical with his back hand...sometimes he lets the talent 'just flow' with no bite to it!

Thanks for your greetings GP. Hope you had a good time in France too.

As said a few times, it is difficult to draw more conclusion from this Final, as Fed could have had a relatively 2 setter win but also could have lost more easily if Djoko hadn't wasted both times his lead. From what I saw, Fed was the one taking the initiative most often as he still sees the ball better than Djoko in my view. Djoko on the other hand has a more steady, reliable game. So all it is roughly once again, up to Fed to make the difference.

9mm, Nadal is improving, certainly, but with him, it is still very much down the opponent. An attacking player, playing confiently, will sort Nadal out most of the time in faster surfaces. I frankly, cannot see Djoko lose to Nadal on faster surfaces now. I might be wrong, but I doubt it as the serve, the FH and BH from the serb do hurt Nadal. Without the huge top spin Nadal can inject on clay on a hot day, his shots do not hirt as much.

Let's see.

Kudos really to Djoker in all of this because he played at the level required.The last person to achieve what he did was Becker in 94,when he knocked out Stich,Goran,and Sampras.
The question is can he sustain this level?I believe that he has overtaken a few key players in the Top10.Roddick,Davydenko are the main protagonists as they are his rivals at Quarter/Semi stage where he will get his shot at either Nadal and Federer.
I see him consistently beating them and challenging the Top2.At the current time,winning the Usopen is beyond him,as Federer has done this many times before,and he is more dangerous in New York than anywhere else.
I really believe Federer could repeat his level from the AO earlier this year.
I'm sure those voices inside the game are making their way to Federer's ears(Borg praising Djoker for one).
He will really be fired up for it,and won't come slow out of the blocks.I thought the Wimbledon campaign kind of ruined his momentum at the time,and has mislead a few into thinking that Federer is slipping.
I just think here are two players now matching him and challenging him.I still maintain we need to see another season to judge when that ultimate dip and decline starts.

There's one thing for sure 26-30 is going to be different for Fed now than 22-26.
IMO Djoker will be world No1 at some stage,but he may have to fight hard for it with Nadal.

And it is important to note Brakkus that the double HBH has become a "better" weapon because players can now cover up more ground quicker on that side and have the abdominal muscles trained accordingly. The energy/strength needed to hit back a stretched BH with 2 hands is considerably higher than with a single hand as the waist muscles have to keep swigging the upper body to generate power while in a single HBH, the arm (and timing) does most of the job.

I think if they decided to make the courts/balls/lower bounce (faster), then the balance might shift back to a single handed bh. Like everything in life...it is all in the details.

Aren't the balls at the US open smaller than for example at Wimbledon?
Besides; the last few years Flushing M appeared to me somewhat faster than SW19.

It's funny though; there are only 8 SH backhand players of the current ATP top 25, but all (maybe with the exeption of Robredo) of them are better than most of the double ones.. Even the less remakable ones are still pretty good (Haas, Ljubo, gonzales)

If the Wilson played at the USO are the same as we can buy in the nearby shops, then they are significantly smaller (We keep losing Wilson balls in our club because they go through the fence pretty easily, Slazengers can't get through). And that i think is the main reason why Nadal has so far had better results on grass than at the USO.

Going back to your stat ,Greasepipe, on SHBH, there is only 1 in the top 5 though! And I consider Youshny, Gasquet, Haas and Blake as very talented and would all 4 be probably be tougher mentally and ranked higher if their BH was more reliable and powerful but they mostly shine during the summer HC season. Davydenko is a great example of that. It took years to tennis fans to acknowledge his talent and strength but being very strong on both sides is the main reason why he is a consistent top 5.

I guess that once one learns how to play Bh with one hand, then it is probably impossible to shift to 2 hbh, but I wonder whether it would not be worth the effort?

I know, "SHBH = better than DHBH" is an opinion based on esthetics. And that's -specially in a era where the game is slowed down- not necessarily more effective.
In the era of S&V.. oops, i won't even go there ;)

Interesting discussion because as said, its all in the detail (of the dynamics of the game) and how they can change . Ever since I saw Djoko playing Nadal at the French I thought Nadal would lose to him on fast surfaces , even at Wimbledon this year if Djoko had been fully fit.
I dont think Nadal will trouble an in-form Federer much on fast surfaces from now on either . Makes a big difference when the ball bounces lower and faster .Wimbledon is probably Nadals best chance , Federer under pressure in his own back yard and the grass/balls plays much slower these days .
Federers hold on the top of the game is now under more pressure .Is that down to having more close rivals or is he at the start of a Sampras-like decline from 26 onwards ?

Or will he even consider doing a Borg type retirement in the next year if he doesnt win a Slam ( :yikes: )?

Hi Big Al, good to read you. Djoko and Nadal have definitely improved considerably over the last 6 months. Federer on the other hand may have reached its peak and even if his bh may be more consistent, I don't think his FH is where it was last year. Being faced with better players should help Federer reached higher levels as well. None of those players would be as good today if they were facing an overall weaker opposition. It s even more key to be facing a tougher opposition while young. Djoko and Nadal can thank Fed for getting them where they are cause each time they play each other the overall game of the younger players goes a tiny level up. Fed benefited from playing Sampras, Hewitt (though as young as him), Agassi, Nalbandian etc....this is the age where players developed their reflexes. This is also why I think Djoko might from now get the better of Nadal. Regarding Federer, he is still in my view in a league of his own but is simply going through a bit of a confidence crisis. Losing to Djoko despite being 6/5 40/0 up is of the same order as his second loss to Canas in Miami. Freak occurrence or confidence crisis? This loss of confidence might also be due to the competition catching up. Difficult to say but I have always argued that one is as strong psychology as he is technically/physically (or both) better than the opposition. If the opponents start to get close, the psychological frailties start to appear...or reappear.

Its strange how Federer won the AO so easily and then went into a slump.He was clearly the best player by quite a way at that point . Various reasons were given like he'd changed his racquet or he was preoccupied by winning the French . Then he went on to beat Nadal on clay , but in the French final he never looked confident missing all those break points . In the Wimbledon final he wasnt near his best until the final set when he started hitting his forehand a lot better .
I agree that a players mental strength is mainly based on confidence in their technical ability. Up to now Federer has got away with lapses in concentration because he could always lift his game when it mattered .
Now he's under more pressure on every point though I agree he's still in a class of his own . As you say as the opposition improves it should make him better , even at 26 .He is one of the most talented ever so who knows how good he really is .
Twice now he's been one match away from holding all four majors at once and couldnt do it .Will he get another chance ,will he ever win the French , is that whats really eating away at him ?
He's in a pretty unique position there so its hard to say what the pressure is like on him. Borg was thought of as one of the strongest mentally ever but in the end even he couldnt cope once players like Lendl and McEnroe were challenging him . We're seeing similarities there with Federer like a very close Wimbledon final and a failure to win one major so I hope he doesnt 'meltdown' in a year or two's time. :yikes:

While witnessing the distribution of prizes at RG and Montreal something like that came to my mind. Roger looked totally embittered both times.
Personally i still think he could use a coach to help him to rationalize such situations.
Roger is an emotional person and i'm not sure he'll cope the same way with tough losses like for example Sampras could or Woods can. He'll have to accept he can't bounce back with a 30+ match winning streak more (or any) longer. Deal with the thorn in your pride and you'll be fine Rog B)

I think one big difference between Borg and Federer is that the former had a huge motivation for being the best and number one. I believe Federer prime motivation on the other hand was the love of the game. He says it many times, when he was younger he did not expect achieve as much. It is his pure talent and then confidence that made him realise he could, relatively late in his career. He is someone who genuinely love tennis for what it is and when he retires will more likely be a McEnroe or a Nastase than a Lendl, Borg or Sampras who hanged their racket on the wall and haven't (really) played since. So in that respect, I do not think he will do a "Borg". Even at 30 if he is injury free, Federer should enjoy measuring himself with the new comers. The main difference is that the game has evolved so much that careers really get shorter in terms of winning slams. I doubt we will see a slam champion from now on of 30+ as we used to see.

Deep down i'm sure Fed will say goodbye at the olympic games 2012, where tennis is played at SW19

:coffee: :) I'm glad you are all now looking at the real nuts and bolts of the case., and the dilemma of federer. Roger Federer is fighting Roger Federer and Roger's own demons. That is the heart of the matter....

Every talented individual at some point or the other comes to this plateau
and in themselves, question what the next thing is. Rightly said, Fed finds it difficult to bottle his emotions sometimes. He has done extremely well so far, given the fact that he used to be terribly temperamental. That is where I rate him much higher than say Safin..who also has the technical talents but hasn't mastered his emotional demons.

Roger has done about all there is to do , and believe me I think he knows
himself that the french and all are definately "winnable". But I absolutely agree that making the final year after year and being one game or match from winning is eating him inside. It may be pride, or just a feeling of wanting to be complete. I believe is the latter....because you know that compared to many talented players before, he is one of the few who has twice come to that holy grail of winning all four slams in succession....

I've said this before, they say its lonely at the top, and certainly absolute power corrupts absolutely, so being the best for long and knowing it soon leaves one with just one's self to overcome. So I think its best for Roger to defeat Roger and as grease pipe said get his thinking sorted out, we will keep seeing such gaping flaws in his obvious talent.

Others like woods..I think ..though he may never admit
( being american) it are playing to be become consistent winners, and also for the sense of the adventure and being appreciated. Fed is playing to feel complete and in the process possibly eclipse many records, there is no sense of adventure anymore.. the courses in tennis will never be redisigned to create anything new...like in golf, the number of holes will not be changed... its just a grind...sometimes with windy conditions or the terrible rains like at wimbledon.

I pray the next person to leave will not be his partner Mirka, cause sometimes when it gets to a point all there is a feeling of wanting to leave it all behind and start a new adventure... Alas it may be the wrong path given his age and stage in his career...but I will leave that to posterity...after all I'm no fortune teller :)

I really believe yo are right Tenez on this one..here something that goes in your direction:

"Federer in no rush to hire new coach..Best part of this interview here:

I'd like to be around for the 2012 Olympics in London," he said. "I'll be almost 31 by then. I think that's definitely possible.

"I'm giving myself a schedule that I can play until I am 35. ( :yikes: We will be oblieged to live with the multiple personalities of Wise and his trolls'bad until then roflmao ) I am hoping to play many generations, like (Andre) Agassi. Tennis generations are five years - I played him, I am playing Nadal now and then maybe I will play the next generation."

details HERE

FED likes tennis as such he likes the movements is esthetic..Might be sometime too much (i.e. in the first set ball he had in the final he missed a FH simply because, IMO, he was searching the nice shot to close the set instead of closing with a less dangerous, near to the line FH.) But I guess this is more than normal for someone who is obliged to find new source of inspirations: I really believe that outside GS he is really searching for new stuff, using even more top spin for instance.. :rolleyes:

What do you mean TV? are you saying i am usually wrong? ;)

Fed playing pacing it till 35 :hide:

I am going to suffer to him lose even more frequently......Unless someone with even more talent comes along....


.

My friend do not worry ...we will share the pain together...

When the Maestro will end his career, it will be so sad :( :( ...

I still find quite entertaining, even if he has less underlying talent, the Tennis provided by Djoko so... :P

Djoko is clearly very strong mentally and that makes him an interesting player, as much as Nadal. But I do believe he is still a gamesmanship kind of player. And when situation will get tense, his injury breaks or else will come up again. So in that respect, I find it difficult to warm up for him but nonetheless, a great player and certainly a future slam winner.

35? :yikes:

The saddest thing ever happened in history of sports; 2 october 1980; Ali-Holmes. A boxing fight which was promoted as "the last hurray" ended up in a grievous display which is still hard to swallow for every sportfan with a heart.
We don't want Fed to end like that, 2012 is fine with me! GOATS should go with a bang, a golden medal would do :pray: