Title: Heroic Maria scraps past Schnyder
Sam - June 3, 2007 09:07 PM (GMT)
:clap:
Great courage and guts from Maria to come back from so much against faceless Patty! Clearly that shoulder is affecting her, as well as her aversion to clay anyway, so that was a great victory today and underlines her great spirit!
The points she played on match points down were great!
She may well get to the semi now at least! :D
chokapova - June 3, 2007 10:29 PM (GMT)
Unfortunately it's also a victory that underlines the fact she is the biggest cheat in current world sport let alone women's tennis! :rolleyes: :angry: :devil:
SuperBRAT - June 3, 2007 11:08 PM (GMT)
Yes she showed guts BUT Schnyder was the better player overall and really shoudl have won it. Not an impressive display from Maria at all. Schnyder's serve deserting her in the last set was the decindg factor.
scolios - June 4, 2007 06:04 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (chokapova @ Jun 3 2007, 11:29 PM) |
| Unfortunately it's also a victory that underlines the fact she is the biggest cheat in current world sport let alone women's tennis! :rolleyes: :angry: :devil: |
How did she cheat, chokopova? I didn't see the whole of the match, but there was no sign of her cheating in what I saw.
Gav - June 4, 2007 06:45 AM (GMT)
Maria fought really hard. In my opinion she deserved her win. She didn't cheat but she was unsportsmanlike for sure which is a little sad.
yorkshire - June 4, 2007 09:57 AM (GMT)
All the grunting can be classed as unsportsmanlike as well, but that's another debate entirely.
It has to be said that the match was rather farcical in the final set, weren't there about six breaks of serve in a row? It was becoming a joke!!
Sam - June 4, 2007 10:13 AM (GMT)
Dear me Choka and Yorkshire - what is up with you guys?
The grunting debate is irrelevant - Rafa Nadal is just as bad but funnily enough the men don't care!
Choka you should be quite happy with Jankovic's progress why spoil it by being derogatory to other players? I've backed Jankovic to win the whole thing if you must know
fedrules - June 4, 2007 10:22 AM (GMT)
Schnyder threw her chances away unfortunately by not playing offensively enough on the match balls :( I think that Sharapova's banshee squealing is REALLY annoying and her last minute time-wasting raquet change was unsporting imo.Schnyder really ought to have defeated Maria.
Sam - June 4, 2007 10:29 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (fedrules @ Jun 4 2007, 11:22 AM) |
| Schnyder threw her chances away unfortunately by not playing offensively enough on the match balls :( I think that Sharapova's banshee squealing is REALLY annoying and her last minute time-wasting raquet change was unsporting imo.Schnyder really ought to have defeated Maria. |
So is Nadal's, but the men don't complain cos they don't look for excuses as easily...
yorkshire - June 4, 2007 10:42 AM (GMT)
Maybe they should... Grunting from anyone annoys me. Monica Seles has a lot to answer for.
Sam - June 4, 2007 10:47 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (yorkshire @ Jun 4 2007, 11:42 AM) |
| Maybe they should... Grunting from anyone annoys me. Monica Seles has a lot to answer for. |
It doesn't really affect the players though - I've played many a grunter in my time and it doesn't come into it - it really shouldn't affect your shots, and it is actually more satisfying every time you win a point.
fedrules - June 4, 2007 11:26 AM (GMT)
Actually I also find Nadal's grunting irritating but agree it probably doesn't disturb players,although it is part of the psychological weaponry in the game.However I feel that Maria's raquet change(for which she received a warning btw) at 40-15 to Schnyder in the final game was purely tactical and unsporting :angry: The French crowd were also obviously of the same opinion as Sharapova was booed at the end of the match.However,Schnyder defeated herself and in the end Sharapova showed the champion's killer instinct by playing with determination on the points which counted.
Russiafan - June 4, 2007 11:32 AM (GMT)
On the grunting issue:
Monica's grunt actually seemed from effort, Maria's (and Venus and several other women player, my lovely Elena included a times) seems more like a scream (and sometimes I could swear she was screaming 'die' as she thump the ball at Patty).
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes:
Tenez - June 4, 2007 11:34 AM (GMT)
There is no doubt that grunting can affect the opponent. If not consciously certainly unconsciously.
Professionels do not complain about it becase it is allowed and it can afftect their image and be labelled whingers but in the changing rooms there is a lot of hate going on we are not aware of. However it is not a news that Sharapova is not liked at all amongst her peers.
fedrules - June 4, 2007 11:34 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 05:32 AM) |
On the grunting iss
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes: |
Exactly!
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:38 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:32 PM) |
On the grunting issue:
Monica's grunt actually seemed from effort, Maria's (and Venus and several other women player, my lovely Elena included a times) seems more like a scream (and sometimes I could swear she was screaming 'die' as she thump the ball at Patty).
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes: |
What about Nadal then? He also turns it on and off like a tap...
You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria...
yorkshire - June 4, 2007 11:38 AM (GMT)
What can be done about it though? Put a "gruntometer" at each end of the court and if it gets above a certain level, then start deducting points? That would certainly stop most of the grunting I'm sure.
| QUOTE |
| You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria... |
Well this thread is about Maria, so it makes sense to discuss her here doesn't it? But I agree, she is only one of a number of grunters...
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:40 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Tenez @ Jun 4 2007, 12:34 PM) |
There is no doubt that grunting can affect the opponent. If not consciously certainly unconsciously.
Professionels do not complain about it becase it is allowed and it can afftect their image and be labelled whingers but in the changing rooms there is a lot of hate going on we are not aware of. However it is not a news that Sharapova is not liked at all amongst her peers. |
I very much doubt your frunting opinion. Have you played many grunters in your time tenez? It is just an excuse. The noise becomes constant after a while anyway.
If somebody was shouting "boo!" really loud just as you hit your ball I could partially understand, but Maria (and no-one else for that matter) does that.
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:41 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (yorkshire @ Jun 4 2007, 12:38 PM) |
What can be done about it though? Put a "gruntometer" at each end of the court and if it gets above a certain level, then start deducting points? That would certainly stop most of the grunting I'm sure.
| QUOTE | | You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria... |
Well this thread is about Maria, so it makes sense to discuss her here doesn't it? But I agree, she is only one of a number of grunters...
|
Well the thread is now about grunting actually! roflmao
People are pretending she's the only person who does this, which is wrong.
Gruntometer at each end of the court is a a ridiculous suggestion and you know it.
fedrules - June 4, 2007 11:41 AM (GMT)
Well maybe if Maria continues to get the same reaction from the crowd as yesterday she might learn to tone it down.Trivial I know but what did people think of Maria's cocktail style dress.Put me in mind of net curtains I'm afraid.. ;)
Russiafan - June 4, 2007 11:42 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:38 PM) |
| QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:32 PM) | On the grunting issue:
Monica's grunt actually seemed from effort, Maria's (and Venus and several other women player, my lovely Elena included a times) seems more like a scream (and sometimes I could swear she was screaming 'die' as she thump the ball at Patty).
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes: |
What about Nadal then? He also turns it on and off like a tap...
You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria...
|
I'm not just attacking Maria, she has grown up in an age where loud screaming is acceptable. Nadal's grunts annoy the hell out of me, yet they aren't criticised because they are obviously deeper and less likely to make people's ears bleed, unlike some of the women.
Maria is merely a clear example of the wailing. As I said in my post Venus and Serena also scream rather than grunt. Players that I actually like, such as Safina and Dementieva also grunt - I'm not criticising solely Maria, it's just Maria seems to use it as weapon sometimes and I wonder how necessary it is, or at least whether the volume is necessary.
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:44 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (fedrules @ Jun 4 2007, 12:41 PM) |
| Well maybe if Maria continues to get the same reaction from the crowd as yesterday she might learn to tone it down.Trivial I know but what did people think of Maria's cocktail style dress.Put me in mind of net curtains I'm afraid.. ;) |
I've thought all along that the dress is awful roflmao
Maria is disliked because she is so fiercely competetive at times and gives the crowd nothing. And lets face it, the French crowds reaction really isn't worth giving a damn about, it will be interesting to see what they are like for Justine vs. Serena part II...
fedrules - June 4, 2007 11:46 AM (GMT)
think they'll be behind 'La petite Belge' or 'Golum' as she was known by some on the BBC.
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:46 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:42 PM) |
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:38 PM) | | QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:32 PM) | On the grunting issue:
Monica's grunt actually seemed from effort, Maria's (and Venus and several other women player, my lovely Elena included a times) seems more like a scream (and sometimes I could swear she was screaming 'die' as she thump the ball at Patty).
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes: |
What about Nadal then? He also turns it on and off like a tap...
You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria...
|
I'm not just attacking Maria, she has grown up in an age where loud screaming is acceptable. Nadal's grunts annoy the hell out of me, yet they aren't criticised because they are obviously deeper and less likely to make people's ears bleed, unlike some of the women.
Maria is merely a clear example of the wailing. As I said in my post Venus and Serena also scream rather than grunt. Players that I actually like, such as Safina and Dementieva also grunt - I'm not criticising solely Maria, it's just Maria seems to use it as weapon sometimes and I wonder how necessary it is, or at least whether the volume is necessary.
|
But Nadal still yells as he hits the ball, and it is no doubt manufacteured for effect and a fear factor. But because the men actually think about their tennis instead of bitching he gets away with it, though it doesn't matter anyway.
And no doubt about it, when the points are bigger, Maria gets louder, through mental and possibly physical effort...
I think people blow this out of all proportion myself :rolleyes:
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:48 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (fedrules @ Jun 4 2007, 12:46 PM) |
| think they'll be behind 'La petite Belge' or 'Golum' as she was known by some on the BBC. |
Yeah but are they going to be as abusive to Serena as they were last time?
That was a disgrace and is why I have no respect or time for the opinions of a french crowd.
yorkshire - June 4, 2007 11:49 AM (GMT)
Maybe the gruntometer was rather a tongue in cheek suggestion but not completely ridiculous.
If you watch replays of Sharapova striking the ball, she clearly opens her gob as wide as she can to let the shriek/scream/grunt out. Not all players do this.
Russiafan - June 4, 2007 11:49 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:46 PM) |
| QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:42 PM) | | QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:38 PM) | | QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:32 PM) | On the grunting issue:
Monica's grunt actually seemed from effort, Maria's (and Venus and several other women player, my lovely Elena included a times) seems more like a scream (and sometimes I could swear she was screaming 'die' as she thump the ball at Patty).
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes: |
What about Nadal then? He also turns it on and off like a tap...
You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria...
|
I'm not just attacking Maria, she has grown up in an age where loud screaming is acceptable. Nadal's grunts annoy the hell out of me, yet they aren't criticised because they are obviously deeper and less likely to make people's ears bleed, unlike some of the women.
Maria is merely a clear example of the wailing. As I said in my post Venus and Serena also scream rather than grunt. Players that I actually like, such as Safina and Dementieva also grunt - I'm not criticising solely Maria, it's just Maria seems to use it as weapon sometimes and I wonder how necessary it is, or at least whether the volume is necessary.
|
But Nadal still yells as he hits the ball, and it is no doubt manufacteured for effect and a fear factor. But because the men actually think about their tennis instead of bitching he gets away with it, though it doesn't matter anyway.
And no doubt about it, when the points are bigger, Maria gets louder, through mental and possibly physical effort...
I think people blow this out of all proportion myself :rolleyes:
|
I'm a bigger fan of Maria than Nadal and you're quite right in pointing out that she gets greater stick then the men for her grunts/shrieks. I guess Nadal's time wasting is a bigger focus of criticism than his grunts and the fact that Maria can be rather business-like on court doesn't really endear to many, except her many admirers who don't care how she plays as long as she looks good.
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:54 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:49 PM) |
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:46 PM) | | QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:42 PM) | | QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:38 PM) | | QUOTE (Russiafan @ Jun 4 2007, 12:32 PM) | On the grunting issue:
Monica's grunt actually seemed from effort, Maria's (and Venus and several other women player, my lovely Elena included a times) seems more like a scream (and sometimes I could swear she was screaming 'die' as she thump the ball at Patty).
Also Maria sometimes made no sound at all yet was still hitting the ball really hard....but doesn't Maria claim that the screaming is unintentional and a result of effort? Strange that it has a habit of getting louder on crucial points :rolleyes: |
What about Nadal then? He also turns it on and off like a tap...
You can't manipulate this argument just to get at Maria...
|
I'm not just attacking Maria, she has grown up in an age where loud screaming is acceptable. Nadal's grunts annoy the hell out of me, yet they aren't criticised because they are obviously deeper and less likely to make people's ears bleed, unlike some of the women.
Maria is merely a clear example of the wailing. As I said in my post Venus and Serena also scream rather than grunt. Players that I actually like, such as Safina and Dementieva also grunt - I'm not criticising solely Maria, it's just Maria seems to use it as weapon sometimes and I wonder how necessary it is, or at least whether the volume is necessary.
|
But Nadal still yells as he hits the ball, and it is no doubt manufacteured for effect and a fear factor. But because the men actually think about their tennis instead of bitching he gets away with it, though it doesn't matter anyway.
And no doubt about it, when the points are bigger, Maria gets louder, through mental and possibly physical effort...
I think people blow this out of all proportion myself :rolleyes:
|
I'm a bigger fan of Maria than Nadal and you're quite right in pointing out that she gets greater stick then the men for her grunts/shrieks. I guess Nadal's time wasting is a bigger focus of criticism than his grunts and the fact that Maria can be rather business-like on court doesn't really endear to many, except her many admirers who don't care how she plays as long as she looks good.
|
For sure, Maria does not open her heart out to fans on the court, she is so focused and in the zone all the time...
With Nadal's time-wasting, we probably have the biggest bit of gamesanship in all of tennis. Yet no one moans. crazy! roflmao
Sam - June 4, 2007 11:55 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (yorkshire @ Jun 4 2007, 12:49 PM) |
Maybe the gruntometer was rather a tongue in cheek suggestion but not completely ridiculous.
If you watch replays of Sharapova striking the ball, she clearly opens her gob as wide as she can to let the shriek/scream/grunt out. Not all players do this. |
yeah it was ;)
it's like choka. clearly choka has an agenda with Maria, I wonder what choka thinks of Nadal with regards to cheating/gamesmanship?
fedrules - June 4, 2007 12:16 PM (GMT)
the main thing I have against Sharapova is her game.I don't enjoy the way she plays-too power-based and not much variety of shot.She also plays really ungainly shots at times.Efficient but ugly.
Tenez - June 4, 2007 12:58 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:44 PM) |
| Maria is disliked because she is so fiercely competetive at times and gives the crowd nothing. |
All those players are fiercely competitive. It s the way they express it that is being discussed ...and disliked here. It would be difficult to question federer's highly competitiveness yet he does not lose his basic human side over it.
Sam - June 4, 2007 04:15 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (fedrules @ Jun 4 2007, 01:16 PM) |
| the main thing I have against Sharapova is her game.I don't enjoy the way she plays-too power-based and not much variety of shot.She also plays really ungainly shots at times.Efficient but ugly. |
I can't disagree with that - her game illustrates a lot that is wrong with the womens game in comparison with the mens...
Sam - June 4, 2007 04:16 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Tenez @ Jun 4 2007, 01:58 PM) |
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:44 PM) | | Maria is disliked because she is so fiercely competetive at times and gives the crowd nothing. |
All those players are fiercely competitive. It s the way they express it that is being discussed ...and disliked here. It would be difficult to question federer's highly competitiveness yet he does not lose his basic human side over it.
|
Yeah but if Fed has played in a great rally or something amuses him, he smiles. With sharapova nothing happens. that'll be the Russian in her I suppose!
It doesn't endear Maria to the crowd there's no denial. But people must not tar just Sharapova with the grunting brush.
dl04 - June 4, 2007 04:28 PM (GMT)
I'm really put off sharapova just by her personality. If you look behind the gimmicks and the commercials, she's kinda boring :coffee:
She's always lacked the same stature for me as Justine, V&S and even Davenport...............
Also her cooments about being a 'cow on ice', dont endear her to me. If you're so pissed off on the clay, dont play :rolleyes:
chokapova - June 4, 2007 05:04 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 04:13 AM) |
Dear me Choka and Yorkshire - what is up with you guys?
The grunting debate is irrelevant - Rafa Nadal is just as bad but funnily enough the men don't care!
Choka you should be quite happy with Jankovic's progress why spoil it by being derogatory to other players? I've backed Jankovic to win the whole thing if you must know |
The grunting debate is indeed irrelevant as I never mentioned it in the first place! :rolleyes:
I am not being derogatory, Maria 'cheated'/was unsportsmanlike, call it what you will.
If she is as good as player as people say she is why does she have to resort to the tactics she uses? :angry:
chokapova - June 4, 2007 05:05 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 10:16 AM) |
| QUOTE (Tenez @ Jun 4 2007, 01:58 PM) | | QUOTE (Sam @ Jun 4 2007, 12:44 PM) | | Maria is disliked because she is so fiercely competetive at times and gives the crowd nothing. |
All those players are fiercely competitive. It s the way they express it that is being discussed ...and disliked here. It would be difficult to question federer's highly competitiveness yet he does not lose his basic human side over it.
|
Yeah but if Fed has played in a great rally or something amuses him, he smiles. With sharapova nothing happens. that'll be the Russian in her I suppose!
It doesn't endear Maria to the crowd there's no denial. But people must not tar just Sharapova with the grunting brush.
|
Sam sections of the crowd yesterday weren't booing Maria becuase of grunting! :ok: