After watching todays pathetic performance from Roger and having looked back at all the matches they have played it became so apparent that Roger Fears Nadal.His body language was indicative of defeat the minute he couldnt secure that first break.Even when they played last year at the Masters Cup I wasnt convinced about his mental appraoch towards Nadal.Nadal is to Federer what Federer is to Roddick...A NIGHTMARE!

Today was a dismall performance one that mirrored last years French Open Final but a level up on the WORST rankings.It as pathetic to watch as a Federer fan.He couldnt return,he couldnt hit a forehand and his backhand was well what it usually is on clay against Nadal....USELESS!

I couldnt fathom his inability to hit forearms with coviction and why he did not want to come into the net!As both commentators also agreed with comments that I made a year ago,it escapes us why he chooses to hit a topspin backhand all the time when he struggles with it against Nadal.They then went onto echo my centiments that he needs to incorporate his slice much much more and it needs a Steffi Graf element to it to keep it low and deep.Added to that he needs a high percentage of first serves and needs to get to the net more often than not.All these comments I made a year ago on BBC and totally agree with him slicing more that top!Its back to the drawing board and heaven knows what else he is going to try and come up with because after today he really is out of options!

Once again Nadal did nothing out of the ordinary and played his full baseline marathon man defence to the T.Well done to him on triplicating his Monte Carlo Performance and extending his winning record on clay.Truely amazing!

The only time Federer will win th French Opn is if Nadal is injured or does not play and that to me as a Federer Fan will be worthless!

Dark, you and i talked about it a few weeks ago; you can see it in his face; when this face appears, forget about it..

Yes Greasepipe,the minute that look is there,ALL BETS ARE OFF!Its so uninspiring to watch because we all know what is oing to happen next!

My point is really that I start to believe that the Roche choice is the wrong one...Is Roche really supplying something to FED? It is the main role of a trainer of a Super player like FED to give him the game plan against HIS ONLY NEAMIS...The question is: Is Roche useful?...

BTW: Roche is still not able to convince FED to play short (coming to the net more often to close the point) and with more slice on clay...What is doing if he cannot convince HIS SUPER PLAYER about a valid Game plan :yikes: :yikes: ????

I think because Nadal is Federer's only genuine rival. Federer really isn't used to having to fight to get a win over someone.

I think we saw this with Canas also, he is used to winning without really needing to fight. Even when he isn't playing his best tennis, he can still win quite clinically. He is mentally strong, he can save match points, but he doesn't quite have the fighting psyche to make a comeback imo. Against Nadal at least.

If anyone is going to stop Federer from overhauling Sampras's GS Total, it will be Nadal.

But it's only one match, there will be more to come and Feds needs to find his groove on clay this season. And Federer has the chance to improve.

Also, you can say Nadal, at his age, has tremendous potential to improve his game on surfaces other than clay too. Just like he did at last years Wimbledon.

Time will tell.

This is true.

However, both Fed and Rafa have the issue of only being likely to play each other in finals of any tournament. I mean, they will be ranked 1 and 2 for everything they play.

So, they will only play each other on clay 3-4 times a year, maximum. There are very few players as good as each other on clay with their styles, so precious match practice for them against other opponents with similar styles.

Canas is the possible exception in terms of being a bit like Rafa, but I don't think that there is anyone else really.

I genuinely think that Fed needs to relax more. There's too much pressure on him beating Rafa, and maybe the expression on his face is from being too tight, wanting it too much.

I mean, I remember the semi final in RG a couple of years ago. He was shanking left right and centre. What about percentage play from him? More slicing of the ball. more taking the pace off the ball, finding the angles. just more artistry rather than trying to blast Rafa off the court, which doesn't work on clay.

Anyway, just my 5 cents. But no, I don't think he's scared of Rafa. He needs to use his brain more, and not be afraid to change his gameplan, mix things up, make Rafa think and get himself some momentum.

Easier said than done, but it's Fed we're talking about here. Shouldn't be beyond him..

I continue to believe that Roger needs a new coach a guy who stay with him 100% time (so to assure he will avoid for instance to spend too much time on Golf or Mode magazine, i.e. force him to continue to focus on Tennis 100%) and he works really to improve his game on clay so to have the ANTI RAFA GAME PLAN READY WHEN NEEDED:

Please Roger moves on: Why not ask Borg? Borg is really a great idea and he needs money...

Come on Roger ask Borg

Nice one, TV B)

I can see the headline now:

"Fed asks Iceborg to help develop antiRafa gameplan"

I now start to think,that this is becoming a mental burden,because having watched Federer in the semi,he was playing his best against King Carlos,who not so long ago was No1.

I know JCF has lost his spark,but he is still a specialist on clay,and Federer mugged him.
If Federer is missing forehands then it's his head that is wrong,not "He makes me improve my backhand."

Roger,there's nothing wrong with your backhand,accept that your grip is not a clay players grip and accept it limitations.Stop trying to be GUGA and adapt.

I have said that as long as Rafa holds himself together physically,Roger will not win RG.I would love to see it,but the dream is fadind fast.

Not knowing the ages of past champs,I doubt whether there are many champions above 26-27.

Time is running out,and Fed has two genuine chances left,before he joins a long list of naturally fast court champs who never lift RG.

Sorry TV but that game plan can only work if you have the confidence. The confidence you can only built it from the baseline....once you have secure shots from the baseline, then you can play around (slice, short, etc....) . This is what fed dod against Ferrrero. he rallied at first and once he realised he could handle rallies, he played "clever" but betting the FO final on plenty of risky shots is a very risky business. Gasquet did it against ferrero too because he was too tired but this is not something he would have done if he had been physically fit/strong.

As you say Dark, you can see it in Feds body language when he plays Nadal. it's an odd thing Fed has everything to beat Nadal-even on clay, but as you say every part of Feds game only functions at about 70% when playing Nadal.
As a fellow Fed admirer, we can take a very small grain of comfort from the fact that he at least got to the final, which given recent performances is something.

I think this is absolutely spot on, Fed only has to do what he normally does and he has at least a 50/50 chance of beating nadal on clay, but without the belief, confidence there's no chance.

TV - you aren't serious surely? Bjorn Borg certainly doesn't need the money - and neither do I think he would ever entertain the idea of being a coach - to anyone!

Anyway, be that as it may, I'm one of those who think Roche has done a lot for Roger since they joined up in 2005. I don't happen to think he's the wrong coach either ... what's wrong is what's going on between Roger's ears when he gets out on that court. Roche looked pretty frustrated when the camera caught him - as if he knows exactly what the problem is and it has nothing to do with Fed's game but with his belief that he can defeat Nadal on clay. Without belief, there is no confidence and that clearly showed in Fed's body language today. In fact, I think fairly early on in the 1st set, (can't recall exactly when) the camera caught Rochey with his head in his hands and the commentator said "Its not that bad, Tony" ... but seems Tony already knew it was!!

Now whether he's doing too much "off court activity" and not wholly focusing on his tennis is another matter. I imagine that Roger would do just what he wants to do regardless of whether he had a coach full time - he strikes me as someone who doesn't take kindly to being told what to do, when to do it, how to do it etc - he might listen, but he'd go his own way anyway.

But isn't the worst thing hearing Roger say in one of his interviews that maybe the only way he can win a clay court tournament is if Nadal isn't in the final? I could hardly believe what I was hearing from the dominant World No 1!!! :yikes:

Its disappointing but it seems Roger's career might go exactly similar to Edberg, Becker & Sampras i.e. Great players who won everything but the french.
Looking at Rafa's form, he seems unbeatable at least for the next 5 years. Fed can only hope that Rafa gets injured before the french and he has a chance.
The scary thing for Fed as far the no.1 ranking is concerned is that if Rafa wins Rome and RG, he has practically no points to defend all year except the wimby final and has a legitimate shot to grabbing the no.1 spot. Fed has a ton load of points from Halle onwards and may lose points like IW and Miami.
Fed should just forget about RG and focus on wimby and maintaining his no.1 spot.

I think 5 years is a bit optimistic...Nadal's game hasn't changed that much since he first came on the scene, and you still have to ask the question of whether he can sustain it- the recent injuries only serve to strengthen this point of view.

As for Federer, I never thought he had the belief that he could beat Nadal on clay- you could see it on his face last year at Roland Garros. Having said that, even if he does fear Nadal on other surfaces, it only serves to improve his game- look at the first set demolition at Wimbledon (granted Nadal was below his best, but still...), and also at the Master's Cup- a victory I thought was more telling because it's a more neutral surface than grass, and both players were playing extremely well. Federer really had to fight for his win, and show some real mental fortitude.

Even being a Federer fan, I don't think he's mentally the strongest out there, but he ridiculously talented, and it's his talent that takes him through. His shotmaking ability is, to some extent, negated on clay, and so (in my opinion) his mental strength lets him down. I have no problem with this- as far as i'm concerned he can go through his career not winning the French Open and it wouldn't bother me- in case no one noticed he owns the rest of the season. I'd be delighted if he did win it, but I'm more than happy to accept he might not.

This is something I agree with.Its not the coach that needs changing its Federers mindset and unfortunately no one other than Roger can change that.Petalp is also on the same wavelength as me here in regards to play.He should play his game instead of trying to create a game on clay to beat Rafael.He is at the moment like Lendl.Lendl changed his entire game to a style he thought was good for the English grass and wound not winning Wimbledon.Roger needs to do what he does best and thats play his tennis.I cant get around how well he played last year at Rome and now this crap!It is mind baffling!

This is true as well.Great spot there Brakkus.The difference with his backhand and Gugas is that Guga had a much more flatter powerful stroke and the high bounces didnt affect him.Look at Kohlschreibers backhand,the bounce did nothing to him!

This is true Tenez :ok:

I also agree with you BIG-TODGER.The commentators kept affirming that he needs to use that slice more he cant achieve the effect with his backhand by hitting the top.He needs to slice low and deep.What I did notice is when he slices,its a cut shot.Take a lokk at Steffis slice,she had such a great followo through on that shot which allowed her to get depth and keep it low!

You know guys and gals, I have been thinking about this.

Cast you minds back to January, Federer was in amazing form at the Aussie Open and Nadal looked lost . Then Feds was having meetups with Tiger Woods and warm ups at Sampras's place and being the big celeb. Then on not-too-distant-a-surface from the Aussie Open he gets beaten twice by Canas and gets turned over without a great deal of fight on Clay by Nadal.

I am beginning the think the Fed we saw in January isn't the same one we are getting to see at the moment. Is it the "hanging-out-with-celebs" stuff that has perhaps made him a little "soft" somewhere? Perhaps believing a little too much he is above the tour and some god? In honesty there is no evidence that this is indeed the way he thinks, I am just throwing something out there to see what you folk think...

Something to ponder....

EDIT:- Just to coin a phrase once quoted by Marvin Hagler "It's hard to get out of bed to go for a run at 5 o'clock in the morning when you're wearing silk pyjamas."

Sorry Gav but I can't see how "hanging-out-with-celebs" would have affected much Federer who as been hanging out with celebs and politicians for a long time now. Besides how did this influence Nadal return of form?

The reasons for Fed's losses over the last 5 times on clay are much down to earth....in my view. There is a "new" Borg out there called Nadal. This in itself in a good explanations to those losses.

I think that maybe he got the Celeb Virus that infected Serena and Venus in 2005...I mean thats all he seems to be good at these days,making appearances with Woods and visiting Pete and then making sure everyone knows.The next thing is the battle of the surfaces,heaven only knows what that is going to prove.I will be watching though next week!

Fair enough Tenez. It seems a bit of the hunger has gone that's all.

Nadal's form has been lifted by his favourite surface I think, not really in connection to Fed hanging with celebs.

Sounds more deadly than choke virus! :D

I think Nadal is, and will remain, Federers "bogey player" -he phases Federer. Alongside this is the fact that Federers shots just weren't as deep as Nadal. All week I had been noticing how deep Rafas shots were going and was wondering how Fed was going to take this on.

However, I won't be writing Fed off. He takes some time to warm into cc season - I expect his game to be raised more and more.

I think Federer will improve, but will he improve enough?? From MC performance, I don't see Rafa handing over his clay crown anytime soon...

On clay this is true...but on clay only. Which is an important point to stress in my view.

Yes, 100%. It's solely clay...Nadal takes to clay like a duck to water in the same way that Federer does on other surfaces. This undoubtedly frustrates him...adding to the mental problems

I was thinking the same thing. Still not too late to turn it around before the French though.

What frustrates me is that Nadal is a one trick pony that is a very clever species at taking opputunities when they are presented.Cake draw Wimbledon,cake run at Indian Wells.

14 of Nadal 19 Titles have come on clay...5 on other surfaces.He reminds me of Thomas Muster who would spend an entire year on clay,get to number 1 and only play the compulsory event,Key Biscayne.

As for Federer Needs to get out of this Lendl virus quick and soon.His obsession at changing what he does best to make a new gameplan for clay just is stupid.I actually think that 2005 he was a better player on clay in that semi against Rafael than he was ever.However that could be argued with last year Rome.But heplayed 2 different styles of play and was able to execute both well but still lost due to lack of belief.Rome last year was a high percentage first serve attack with dominant net play...2005 he lived with Nadal at the baseline but was shanking too many balls.One feels that if he just goes for his shots he will beat Nadal.Look at that 4th set and beginning of the 5th in Rome,it was fearless hitting Federer style,not this crap clay invention style that is making him look stupid!

FO 05 was I think Fed's best chance and there I agree he kind of choked. Nadal's shots then were landing on the t-line or even shorter but Nadal's 07 is a very different player. He plays long and more powerful. So I think that even though Fed improved, Nadal improved even more so. That is the problem. Maybe this week we will have a chance to see Nadal v Safin or Nalby! :whistle:

You have more chance of seeing Safin break a racquet against an unknown and then getting bagelled and Nalbandian eating a donut than the 2 of them playing Nadal!

Also if you look at how short the rallies were.He would get the first serve in and then immeiately hit the winner or set it up with the very next shot!Now he is caught in a mental trap and is scared to hit the ball against Nadal.In some of the rallies yesterday he went for it and it paid off.They were quick 3 shot rallies.It was like a sudden burst of Federer,the Federer that we know him to be.Then that look settled in and it was back to the Federer Lendl style...

I really hope Federer get's it sorted soon, as a duplicate of last year's French Final again this year would be really boring to watch.

I was so disappointed in that match :(

Oh and it has just come to light that Nadal Double Bagelled Federer yesterday. ;)

I actually found myself sick watching that match yesterday and questioned myself as to why do I support this man.His attitude towards that match was terrible!

A few facts for a bit of perspective. Nadal hasn't been beaten on clay for what is it, 65 matches now? Last defeat in 2005 to Andreev (or was it 2004)? Federer hasn't been beaten by anyone on clay other than Nadal since 2005. Nadal is a brilliant claycourt player who has managed to build up an aura about him on the surface. Borg had it., Kuerten in a different (he was more of an Agassi-type for clay - excellent big-match player but also capable of bad losses), Ferrero had it, and Coria had a v long unbeaten run on clay. A lot of it is confidence related.

Nadal is already one of the greatest ever on clay, having overtaken the likes of Bruguera and Muster, and closing in on my fave, Kuerten, and also Vilas (but still a fair way to go to reach Borg's claycourt dominance). Its Federer's bad luck to be playing in an era of one of the top 3-4 claycourters of all time, just as its Roddick's bad luck to be playing during Federer's era and hence miss out on a Wimbledon title that he would otherwise deservedly win.

Nadal plays a perfect claycourt game, but a degree of his success must also be related to confidence, and his opponents' lack of confidence against him on clay. Federer can beat Nadal on clay, but if he doesn't defeat him before French Open then it looks a foregone conclusion there this year, unless Nadal is injured. Federer just doesn't seem to have that belief at the moment.

Too true and if you look at Berdych who was also shaking in his boots when he played Nadal in the semi.But he strted going for it in the second and it paid divedend but he also didnt believe enough to actually pull it off!

I agree with some points MrI but again I feel we are emphasing too much the mental, confidence part of the game here. Last year Nadal played with very little confidence as he says himself. He started this 5th set in Rome and the first set in the FO pretty badly with little if no confidence .....yet his game and not his mind prevailed while Fed's game first AND THEN his mind faltered.

So let's not expect Federer to be cheerful, fightful and excited when he realises that his only chance to beat nadal on clay is to play 3 perfect sets with a huge dose of risks while hitting balls jumping mad at his face!!!!

Also whether Nadal will or not have a 6th FO to equal Borg is a bit irrelevant. The guy is it seems is producing the most deadly game ever on clay! This is why once again Fed is particularly unlucky. To me Nadal might be seen maybe as behind Borg or Vilas but one thing is sure is that all those players out there would rather face the old guard than this guy from spain who is dominating on clay in a way we thought it would be impossible to do again.

Yet having said all that......Fed is not that far from Nadal and this in itself is a remarkable achievement.

Well seeing as Federer's mind controls his game, I really don't see how his game THEN mind can falter.

I think here it is ALL about mind games, with relative bounces and speeds of surfaces playing a more subordinate role.

So many greats of the game have said tennis is all about the mind, and only the most mentally strong players do the Grand Slam.

He can't even begin to combat Nadal until he thinks he can beat him. He needs to sort out his head then worry about his game.

If he's playing with confidence and belief and going for his shots, we know Federer's game can combat Nadal's clay game.

Darky, come on man, now do not go too far: I did not like his attitude either but he is still, by far my favorite player out there(Ok Djoko :) is great too...But...)

FED did not enter in the match yesterday or even, more precisely, he was not there when he matters more i.e. the break points in the first set...

After that (the real worry for me) he was accepting his fate like if he was saying: OK Rafa is too good on clay and I, I have to conclude ASAP because I have to participate to a reception with Mirka this evening...

I mean the worry point was really his inability to fight back in the second set. And have a look to this picture; Is this someone WHO cares to be No#2 in this tourney (AND ON CLAY) and not No#1 :yikes: ??



Yesterday during the ceremony there was too many smiles and happy faces..How can? This is just beyond me...Anyway it is history: MrI pointed out some very interesting points we should all always remember: mainly Rafa is already one of the all time great on clay and this cannot be denied as FED is one of the all time great outside clay...

Said that...I continue to believe he needs another coach and I posted yesterday a very interested candidate, i.e. Borg (BTW: Borg has a great advantage, he is leaving most of the time in Dubai, the first house nowadays of FED)..In any case these are very interesting post match remarks (It is a part of today New York Time article):

''I lost four times against Rafa,'' Federer said. ''I'd rather have that than lose against four different guys.'' :o

Nadal won the title at Monte Carlo for the third consecutive year. Nadal, the two-time defending French Open champion, is 14-0 in clay-court finals, and 4-0 against Federer.

Despite his latest setback, Federer said he was hopeful he could win the French Open, the only major title that has eluded him and the only one played on clay.

''I feel this match gave me some information,'' :yikes: roflmao [Come on Roger this is :bs: ] said Federer, who has won 10 Grand Slam singles titles. ''I'm absolutely in the mix with him on clay. I feel like I'm in good shape for the rest of the clay-court season, and it's going to come down to the French Open to see who wins.'' :pray:
Nadal defeated Federer on clay last year in the finals of the Monte Carlo Masters, the Rome Masters and the French Open. He also defeated Federer in the 2005 French Open semifinals.

''For sure, it's a surprise to win in two sets against the No. 1,'' Nadal said. ''I was confident because I was playing my best tennis this week.''

Federer, who won his previous two matches against Nadal on other surfaces, missed two chances to break Nadal in the eighth game of the first set. Nadal saved the first with a strong serve, and the second when a forehand by Federer went wide.

''I should have used my chances when I had them early on,'' Federer said.

I pointed out the part that are just too hilarious for me...

maybe he's been too busy basking in the glory of being on a stamp.

i said this over on the shithole (bbc) and i got a right roasting, basically i believe his domination is coming to a standstill - he can't win on clay, he got beat by the same player twice in consectutive tournaments, players he should beat easily are getting closer to him (ie seppi 7-6 7-6), and more players are giving him a go, rather than sitting and watching the match. too many players gave him too much respect, and that's why it look too easy for him at times, now more players are going out to win. not many players can rattle him, but i've watched him a few times recently, and he looks scared during the match.

Surely you already had this information, Rogelio? In that Rafa is brilliant on clay, his top spin is ferocious and his shots are deep!!

Come on, Roger, you can do better than that!!

It's always with hesitance that I criticise Fed, as he always proves me wrong, but he's got to get back to Mr Winning Machine...emotionless, cold, hard winner.

He'll lift his game for RG, but as Nadal improves more and more on this surface, it means Federer has to do the same.

Sara as often agree with you: Difficult to raise a direct criticism to FED...Nevertheless this sentence is, as I pointed out above, just :bs:
Come on after 10 matches you still have to collect info on Rafa??? Come on...Roger..Please as Sara pointed out come back to the usual: Start to believe 100% to your (Super) Tennis and move on..Might be in Rome you will be able to beat him if you will reach the final..Full stop..
:rolleyes:

Disagree very much Serena. How can you be mentally strong if you can't rely on your weapons to bother your opponents?

Fed has shown on many occasions that he was mentally strong...even against Rafa when he had all to lose and nothing to gain.

But enough said from me.