This has been somewhat debated by myself and SerenaW19 and we seem to get at each others throats.I promise I wont this time.

I spent the morning here in the office looking at Hingis and her H2H with well known big hitters and low and behold very few have winning records against her!This in itself is proof that she has a mental block with this power thing and her serve!

Now,the argument that keeps coming forward is that some players were coming of age etc.This holds only so much water.Hingis wins are very widespread and this is my argument.

When she burst onto the scene she had no power,but she did possess great guile and ball placement.Her mother was very vocal about how she didnt train her daughter to hit booming serves as she was very young and her body was in the development stages of maturing.Fair enough!Hingis however could really tussle it out with the big guns and more often than not thrash them.Most matches of hers were close affairs.But she still could duke it out with all the big hitters!

The press and commentators I believe planted this seed of doubt about power in her head and that she isnt good enough to cut it and it grew.I then believe that this is why her foot injury,that may have been serious,was more of a mental thing.The mind is the ultimate weapon in any given sport and hers was poisened and thus robbing her of that killer instinct she possessed in her young days with her undeveloped body.

What do you people think?Yes,a new coach is needed for a fresh perspective,but look at her results before her retirement.The girl was ruthless and to top it off she was not fully developed!

I think on her day Hingis was capable (and perhaps still is) of beating any one of the big hitters (Davenport, Venus, Serena, Capriati) but her problem was that winning a slam wasn't just a matter of beating one of them, she had to beat 2 or 3 in a row.

Look at the AO 2001 - she squeezed past Serena, destroyed Venus then still had to face up to Capriati. That's probably why she was still winning the Tier I/II titles as V&S weren't always there & Capriati tended to play at her best in the slams therefore she wasn't facing the power game in multiple matches.

Which is pretty what the media was saying at the time - not could she beat one of them but could she beat all of them round after round.

Oh and even though Hingis has a pretty even H2H with the power players the majority of her wins did clearly come earlier in her career.

She didn't beat Capriati after her comeback
won 3 out of her first 4 matches against Serena but then only 3 of her next 9 (one was a retirement by Serena)
Won 8 out of her first 11 matches against Venus but then only 3 out of the next 10.

Her record against Lindsay was more even but then they came through at the same time & Davenport leads that 14-11.

So it wasn't that she couldn't beat them or that it was exactly a mental thing though i'm sure that played a part as she slowly lost her position as the number 1 player and frustration set in. More that she couldn't consistently beat them as she once did - it must be very difficult to beat one of them and then know you've got to get up and do it all again the next day.

I don't think the media can be blamed for her losing her killer instinct - her confidence taking a blow had more to do with the rest of the field getting better and being able to beat her rather than what was said about her.

I pretty much agree with everything you are saying here especially the part about her having to do it match after match.

But she did the same thing early on in her career and some of her wins were devastating.And like I said,she was underdeveloped in her body yet she was able to kill them!

The media may have been honest but they dealt her a mental blow that buggered her tennis up!

The thing is that when Hingis had her best year in 1997, she wasn't nearly as fit as she is now, but power tennis was virtually non-existent that year, and her touch and guile were enough to win everything, sadly that is no-longer the case :(

Hingis' talent is so evident though, who else could play that kind of tennis at 16 with such a refined technique :bow:

I don't know if she did do that early on in her career really though. In 1997-8 there was always a Martinez, Novotna, ASV or Coetzer to pick off without raising sweat and give her a break.

I think the media were just pointing out what was happening - she was actually getting left behind by Venus, Serena and the rest and though she still had her moments - more often than not she couldn't match their game.

I think if she had a problem mentally is that she couldn't get her head round her new status - she was so used to being on top she had difficulties getting used to not being so anymore. That's probably why sometimes she even abandoned her usual game and tried to go toe to toe with some of them occasionally which was never going to work.

So all in all GS2 it is a mental thing! I think she still is able to go toe toe with Venus.Look at their meetings last year!They always bring the best out of each other!

There was also the Davenports and the Pierces as well as Steffi and Monica who were power players.Steffi is the only one in that mix with a commanding H2H over her.A difference of 3 with Davenport and she virtually owns the other 2.

What Im saying echoes what GS2 says.She tried to change her game as opposed to bettering her natural style.Something Tenez says Nadal is doing now is having the same advrse effect on his tennis.I still believe that she is more than capable of producing better tennis than she has shown us now!

I think it is a mental thing on the whole, but a mental thing on both sides. I think there was this idea the power players were coming and Hingis couldn't deal with them much longer-she then lost some confidence and they started to gain confidence as she lost hers.
What's also significant is how dominating she was in the slams for just over a year in '97, and how gradually she increasingly faltered at the latter stages-the finals and now can't seem to make it past the quarters despite quite healthy results against some top players in the lesser tournaments.
When she played Capriati in the Aussi open final for the second time, she just couldn't close out the match, it was unbelievable she had out played her opponent but when it came to crossing the finishing line the Hingis of '97 had gone awol.
When she lost to Majoli at the French final she was outplayed-simple as that.
With Capriati at the second Australian final, she couldn't bring herself to take it.
I don't think Hingis has what it takes between the ears to win a slam any more, her game was always clever-it had to be, if she doesn't think she can win, she can't win. I think some outside help to give her back her mental strength would be much needed, but sadly won't happen. Her closeness to her mother means that unfortunately will never materialise.

Good post Bit-todger :ok: , I do think it is very mental, although I think it's obvious that physically Martina is better now than she was, but there are more power players sadly for her :(

She needs to find that little bit of extra mental strength needed to win a slam, or at least win a QF match. Martina is also prone to lapses in concentration where she can go off for a few games; this is extreemely detrimental. I don't think she has ever as much of a scrapper though as say Capriati. She only lost 4 sets in winning her 5 Grand Slams and 4/5 of her Grand Slam Finals were won in two sets. I don't think she has ever been particularly brilliant at fighting her self out of a hole when she was match point down, this is another mental aspect and a reason why she didn't win more of those GS Finals imo.

i've seen her throw her racquet down when she's been in a hole- against Davernport at the Aussie open for eg, and other occasions, she's such a great player but as you say Serena, when she's in a hole she tends to keep shovelling-lets not mention the French final against Graf!

This I must say is a great post and to the T in everything that I think is wrong with Hingis at the moment.Her love for her mother wont allow her to seek other advice,which is much needed.

Hingis and her tennis is entirely a mental thing.Her game is built around thought and when she lapses in concentration it does cost her dearly and the hole she has dug gets deeper and then she implodes...

She needs to seek out that head doctor Kuznetsova went to.I think as funny as it sounds it may help her!

Quotes from Hingis...this is a symbol of mental weakness.Hingis of 97 would talk crap and be blunt not doubt herself!

i've got a feeling Hingis wont be around in a year or so if she doesn't get a slam or at least close. She's been at the top and i don't think she came back to be an also ran. It would be a shame she adds a hell of a lot to the game.

you're too negative towards her. give her a chance.

She has the game and I believe she will get close.She needs to be lieve and how can we believe in her if she isnt believeing in her own abilities!

Well, after her loss to Daniela I would say this confirms what many of us said about Hingis' problems being about as much her own mentality as the power.

True and if you read the interview though,she was already feeling a loss when she saw the draw.She said she saw Daniella and she knew that it was a problem.Already the mental approach is so wrong!

she needs a coach. a proper one too. look how andy murray has been doing since he got brad gilbert, she needs someone like that. and it's not as if she doesn't have the money to get a coach. it's her mental issues, not the power as everyone says, why she's not doing as well. when she owned the tour, she was fearless, and didn't her opponents much respect, these days she doesn't mind losing to players, and loses the battle mentaly before the match even started. i read the other day that she's ruling herself out of winning a slam, because she can't beat the good players, but that's exactly why she's losing to them, she doesn't believe she can :yikes:

where did you read that bliv? :yikes: that is worrying!

She really needs to find her form more consistently and I do agree a new coach could help her with this. Perhaps a past great like Jimmy Connors is doing with Andy Roddick. Martina Navratilova for instance?

here you are http://www.eurosport.co.uk/tennis/wta-indi...to1110276.shtml

she is a bit dumb though, coz she did beat Sharapova :doh:

dunno about Navratilova. maybe she one like Chris Evert. the ice maiden. She used to be her guidence tour player when she first joined the tour as a young 'un, so if she gets her back, then maybe she'll get her confidence back. I feel the media always ranting about her may have affected her too. So many people publicy criticized her for returning, and wrote her off so much, and then never wrote a retraction about their comments towards. I read one in the guardian from the australian open 2006, and the guy writing it was so scpetical about her, the tone he was writing from was that he didn't like her, so he was just a biased idiot anyway.

I liked her comment about Serena :D

I think she really is due a win against Amelie, I just hope that she produce her best form on the day to manage it :)

well I guess sometimes you can go OTT with a reaction when someone loses. I didn't see the match, but I feel Hantuchova deserves credit, as I assume she must have played superbly, as opposed to Hingis playing badly, and you've got to give credit where it's due. I guess we'll have to see if she continues to get affected mentaly in the coming weeks, or whether she's just having a minor blip.

the 'martina' game and approach definately need a shake-up.

I don't think Martina has it in her to change things, we can be objective and it’ s easy to see what’s wrong
-but she's obviously emotionally too attached to her mother.
It’s like being in love with the wrong person-everyone else can see it’s not working except for the
people in the relationship.

martina will endure :D :D :D

i think Martina will endure, she just wont win any more slams-bless her little cotton socks.

This is by far the most true post with regards to this issue....You know when you are in a situation,you can never see the wrong.It is only us on the outside that can see it....

And what kuk is that about her not believing she can win a slam...MENTA,MENTAL and more MENTAL....

This from Hingis....Finally some damn admission!

I fear Hingis is on a downward spiral, and i think at some point if things don't improve for her she will retire with some 'injury' etc. It's great that she recognises something is wrong, but it's a another thing to change it.
It's a damn shame given her talent she should have been at the top of the game for so much longer.

get it together martina, honestly :doh: :shrug: :doh:

I fear that she also has got "Clijsters Syndrome".That the new sickness to hit the world...wedding syndrome..If you look at Radeks Results as well,not too good after he got the virus!

no, I don't think it's that (generally Stepanek is a poor player anyway)

I think something may have happened to her personally. After she won in Tokyo, she had two weeks off, and went home presumably, and since she came back (Dubai), she's just got no confidence in her. What happened between them two weeks?
I feel she should do either one of the two: take some time off, maybe the clay season, and resurface for Roland Garros - or play in a minor tournament against shit players to get her confidence back, it worked for her last year after she played Kolkata :)

Oblivion, i admire your optimism about Hingis' lack of confidence and wish i was as simple as Hingis playing against some 'shit players' to rejuvenate her failing game. But what we are now witnessing is the logical conclusion of years mental fragmentation with regard to Hingis' game. Yeah she still has the shots but increasingly when it comes to the crunch, she crumbles.
i predicted a while back she wouldn't win another slam, but i don't think she'll stay in the game for too long, i reckon she'll be gone in a year.

As much as I dont like this truth from BIG-TODGER it is fact and I have to agree with him...Sooner or later losing to stupid people is going to get to her and she will call it quits....

I hope i'm wrong as Hingis is a great asset to the game, i was chuffed when she decided to return, but i don't think she came back to be an also ran.

Who knows maybe its going to be a Swiss Double at the French!

I have always thought that Hingis is only satisfied with playing tennis when she is in with a chance of winning slams and near-ish to the top of the rankings.

She's certainly proven herself capable of being a consistent member of the top 10 and possibly top 5 for the next year or so, however I agree that a slam seems beyond her. Australia and the French seem like her best chances, but Justine's mastery of clay will always make the chances of Martina winning at Roland Garros slim.

Her defeats to Daniela and Aga are maybe a little surprising but as Federer has shown recently even the best have their off days. However it does seem rather symptomatic with her defeat to Ai Sugiyama at Wimbey, loss to Razzano at US Open, then there was Seoul....however let's remember she won Tokyo and her comments following her defeat to Radwanska suggests she needs some rest and a chance to reccuperate mentally ahead of the clay season - maybe she won't win the French but I wouldn't be surprised to see her in the Semi-Finals or possibly in the Final (so long as she doesn't run into Justine sooner).

Do you think she trains with hubby to be Radek StiffNeck?