There are over 449548 names on the petition but yours might just be the one that makes the difference. I was upset to see the amount of cruelty involved. If it is necessary to continue catching dolphin's then a better way must be found - please sign the petition.

Please sign this

The video that follows is gross. I am not saying that for joke reasons. Honestly if you are sensitive to bloodshed, then do NOT click the link

This is unbelievably cruel

please don't watch it if you have a weak stomach

Thanks for highlighting this Lex. I am shocked.

Signed.

I couldn't watch the vid the whole way through, I'm not normally shocked by stuff, but that is just beyond the pale..

I'm pinning this thread at Lex's request, but I haven't reviewed the video yet.

As an editorial note, though, if the video is more than a couple years old, it may not depict current practices. Japan and a few other areas do still allow dolphin hunting, but, because of just this kind of pressure, the methods have been changed somewhat to appease the international community.

Thank you Lex, I have signed the petition. Did not view the video. I did see part on the tv the other evening, which was staggeringly shocking and I had to turn it off immediately :( :cry: :angry:

I watched this video a couple of weeks ago - it's really shocking and upsetting :(

Those poor dolphins :cry:

I've signed Lex, but in view of all the comments did NOT watch the video - thanks for the warning.

thanks Nick. I got the email through today, so I guess it's fairly current, but will keep an eye in it.

There's a well-known video from 2003 (I think) that documented one of these horrific dolphin hunts, which lead to some of the changes that have been implemented. Can't connect to your link from work, so I don't know if this is the same video or not.

this starts with the dolphins being 'shepherded' by trawlers into an increasingly smaller area and then being pulled out of the water....

An effective video for sure, and whilst I am not approving of what the Japanese fishermen do, I do slightly wonder if creatures like dolphins and hedgehogs and badgers and seals get special treatment because they are 'cute' and their plight plucks at our heartstrings - whilst we are prepared to turn a blind eye to the disgustingly cruel practices that are involved with some livestock rearing, and in particular pig and chicken farming.

Yes I agree and was gonna say the same. this practice IS disgusting, and I will be signing the petition. Thanks Lex. :) But equally disgusting things happen in factory farming. Even if practices for slaughter might seem humane, they are often flouted for foun bu those who work there. I mean to work in an abatior you gotta be pretty thick skinned, and it's a borign and nasty job so you dont; think that some of the staff dont; make it more 'interesting'? At Bernard Matthews and his vile turkey farm, staff were caught playing baseball with a LIVE turkey. They half battered it to death before 'humanely' killing it. I've alos heard that staff have cut chicken and turkey's heads off whilst they are still alive to watch them run around for a 'laugh' and that cows have bene used as dartboards before being killed. They poor creatures have a bad enough life as it is. :angry:

I agree with both of these posts.

It really used to piss me off when I'd see 'Dolphin Friendly Tuna'. Tuna would be killed by using nets to drag them into an enclosed area then then slaughtered whilst in the water. horrific. Again, I recall seeing pictures of this but I'm not sure how up to date they were.

And the cute fluffy animal thing is irksome too. The argument that certain animals are more intelligent than others falls flat on its face when you consider that pigs are intelligent.

But certainly in the UK animals are loved. The Donkey sanctuary gest more donations than it can deal with, and the guide dogs for the blind gets so much money that it gives some of it to other charities! Conversely a lot of the charities that deal with helping people aren't quite so popular.. In fact a major homeless charity recent ran a poster campaign pointing out that donations to animal charities far outweighed what they received. Can't remember the name of the charity (I saw the poster at a bus stop) so can't post a link.

signed.

Yes I agree. I love all animals me, and pigs are one of my favourites and they are hugely intelligent creatures. I don't eat them either. The idea repulses me. I dont; think it matters how intelligent a creature is - they all suffer and feel pain. Anyway those people who use that argument think it's Ok to experiment on monkeys - they are extremely intelligent and suffer psychologically from years of torture. And you mention hedgehogs - I love them, I';m expecting them to come back out of hibernation soon. They are quite stupid as it goes though, I had to rescue one once and they can associte lights with feeding so they run into cars at night! Tell you what, they fight like hell too.

Dolphin friendly tuna also contributes to the destruction of albatrosses - they get hooked trying to take bait off the long lines. Since males and females fish in different grounds the death toll wrecks the balance of colonies.

I would rather avoid dolphin friendly tuna - but I don't buy tuna at all nowadays.

In the UK we are self-proclaimed, not real, animal lovers we are selfish, anthropomorphic, and sentimental and prefer to avoid being faced with our own wanton cruelty by criticising the 'barbaric' practices of others.

The hedgehogs on Uist were a classic - somebody introduced them and they were destroying the important population of wading birds by eating eggs so it was decided to cull them (on the perfectly reasonable basis that the UK habitat is almost entirely affected by man anyway, so in order to preserve some rare species sometimes it is necessary to cull a more common one).

The likes of Paul McCartney protested so now the hedgehogs are being moved to the mainland so he can feel good about himself and won't have to watch the suffering and imbalance caused by the unnecessary flooding of local ecosystems on the mainland into which hundreds of unwanted hedgehogs are dropped.

I am NOT having a go at Lex, but my antennae always pop up in relation to campaigns like this one.

I understand, my issue with this is (avert your eyes now - gruesome detail) the fact that dolphins are mammals yet are being butchered whilst still alive. Those mammals are not twitching in their death throes, they are alive and in distress whilst being gutted and sliced up.

That is wanton cruelty and I would feel the same if I was watching a hyena being treated the same way!

I agree with you Lex that what we saw was awful. Kiling large mammals without causing unnecessary suffering is always going to be more complicated than with smaller creatures for the simple reason that they take more killing. I too was shocked by the apparent lack of effort on the part of the people in your video to try and reduce the suffering of the dolphins they were killing. If you have to kill dolphins there must be a way of doing it more quickly than that. Dragging them behind the cars was just so callous.

SB, you are absolutely wonderful, so caring and you know so much, too. It doesn't matter what topic of real interest, particularly political (and animal rights is political, of course) crops up on this board, you always have something relevant and interesting and often new to say about it.

You are a great woman - as all those awards last night demonstrated :hug:

if any of you who haven't seen the vid and have an opinion, watch as much as you can

I have got to about 2/3rds of way through

I'm saying this because I 'd hate for folks to have uninformed opinions

I've found another video via the PETA website, which is similar to this one, which states that it was filmed at the end of 2006. looks like this practice is still ongoing. :(

I agree with the general view regarding animals, that we treat sentient creatures like shit and have little concern for them, in a broad sense.
But if we look closer to home, the way chickens, pigs and other animals bread for food are treated it is appalling. I agree with the points mentioned above but we need to start at home by not buying none free range products. The way dolphins etc are sometimes killed is cruel, but at home we're talking about the entire existence of the animal not just it's death.

I am a fisherman, and sometimes I give the fish that I have caught to colleagues at work. One colleague asked me to cut off the head and tail and all the fins before I gave it to her because her family did not like to be reminded that they were eating something that was once alive swimming in the river - it gave them the creeps. When I asked she confirmed that they thought the same with all the meat that they eat.

There is nothing cruel about her attitude, but a widespread desire on the part of British consumers to be disconnected from the living nature of their food source is certainly one of the reasons why animal cruelty can flourish.

If you are not a vegetarian I think you must accept that the consequences of your diet involve death to whatever you eat - that is one of the first steps towards being interested in the conditions in which the animals you eat live their lives and meet their end. At the very least, you should be interested in knowing what you are ingesting for selfish reasons.

barrystar,
i think your make a good point (as usual), we are now so detatched from food production, most of us have little clue as to how it gets to us, and by what how it lived.

As carnivore I accept what I eat has been alive and been killed for me to eat and I have no problem with that. However, we buy organic stuff as much as you can and stuff made in Wales as much as possible also, as we know about the food chain and conditions here.

I do think though that people should be more aware about where their food comes from and the conditions it's treated in, I would hate to think anything I eat had been treated cruelly. But at the same time to kill it at all surely is cruel? It's odd to think about it. But I try to be as ethical as I can and don't mind paying extra if I know what I buy is organic and free range. I wish more meat eating people would take such an approach though.

I don't suscribe to the view that killing is cruel - if you do the only options are to be a vegan and avoid pretty much any activity that causes death even indirectly or to accept that you are prepared to live a compromise and get on with it unapologetically but carefully.

For what its worth, my personal compromise involves drawing a distinction between killing an animal and causing it suffering whilst it is alive (including in the last moments before its death). I am prepared to accept that death before old age is entirely normal in the animal kingdom and whenever I inflict it (or am the cause for it being inflicted because I am a consumer) it is important for it to be as quick and painless as reasonably possible and for the animal's life not to have involved unnecessary suffering. I am also prepared to accept that humans may use animals for their ends - but have a responsibility in so doing not to cause unnecessary suffering. That must also involve accepting that a human life is more valuable than the life of an animal.

That's my problem, i dont; accept that my life is more valuable than that of an animal. Why should it be? We are all creatures who have bene given life, which is a very precious gift. And we are ALL capable of feeling pain and suffering.

And what of animals that WE breed purely to kill? Is that ethical? Seems liek an abuse of life to me.

That is truly truly awful - watched the video through, am pretty immune to even the most disgusting videos, but that was horrible. I love dolphins, they are beautiful creatures as we all know. They don't deserve that. No animal deserves that.

Unfortunetly a lot of shocking stuff goes on in the far east still - I saw something in the daily mail a few weeks ago about the chinese and their dog trade, but I won't go into it here unless you want me to :(

Signed!

Saw it all, it is terrible what they do - And I hate to say this, but those people are intentionally making those dolphins suffer more. :angry:

That was utterly awful - how could anyone allow a creature to carry on suffering like that?

I've always bought meat and fish that is organic and free range or from farmers- it costs more, but I'd rather have less of it and know more or less how the animal was kept etc.

I thought it was very telling when Hugh-Fearnley Whittingstall brought people into his River Cottage to learn about keeping animals and slaughtering them. The naivety about where meat had come from was quite staggering at times, but their new outlook on produce was really great.

I know. I cant; beleive that people don't appreciate what goes into producing their meat. I do eat meat, I try to be organic and buy less too. It's nicer and it's been better cared for. And I only buy free range eggs. Trouble is with eating out, even good places dont; have organic and free range on the menu consistently.

Well I do see where you are coming from SB, but then again you point out that you eat meat.

I imagine that you would not knowingly eat human flesh so I guess you have to decide why you are prepared to eat animal flesh but not (if I am right) human flesh. Likewise, if you wear leather (on your feet or a belt for example) would you draw a distinction between that and, say, a lampshade made of human skin?

If you do draw a distinction between animal flesh and human flesh (or animal products and human products that depend upon death - as opposed to wool or hair extensions) I can only guess that somewhere deep in your psyche you are making a distinction between animals and people to enable you to deal with that compromise.

If you do draw such a distinction, how do you do it without accepting that there is a greater value to human than animal life?

Are you a cannibal then Barrystar? cos you're implying SB has to be a cannibal to back up what she thinks, which is just pure stupid.

You shouldn't be questioning SB or anybody else that (understandably) finds these pictures disgusting. They are, I can cope with it, but what is being done is awfully cruel and the suffering is unnecessary. In this case you are in a position where you are almost defending the actions of those in the clip, or at least that's how it looks from here. I'm sure you don't, but...

Sign the petition if you believe it's right and pipe down getting on SB's case ;)

I always find it quite interesting that people tend to distinguish between meats that are "ok" to eat and those which people find distasteful to eat. I realise in some cases this is for ethical reasons e.g. the conditions in which calves are kept before being killed for veal. But otherwise, I see very little distinction between eating cod and eating dolphin, or eating cow and eating dog. But then I'm veggie so a wee bit biased on that front!

I don't believe I am getting on anybody's case. I have said that I found the video utterly awful - but not because they were killing dolphins as opposed to the utterly callous way in which it was being done which must have caused untold unnecessary suffering.

I do, however, think that there are some fundamental principles at play here. I don't get from SB that she thinks I am a nuisance. If she does she can say so.

I do think that those of use who are prepared to eat meat and use animal products like leather need to ask ourselves why we are prepared to do that before we take a strong stance on animal cruelty. If we are making compromises about treatment of animals we cannot criticise others for doing something similar. Also, our criticism has more force if we have worked out what it is that we are prepared to accept and why and then criticise others for acting outside those bounds.

Thats all.

(Goodness knows - I am prepared to accept that I am inconsistent myself in many respects, but I am never unhappy to have that pointed out to me - politely please)

I did think you were starting to jump on everything she said and try and knock it apart though mate.



My personal opinion is that human's, obviously, are the dominant, supreme force on this planet and always will be in the future now. We are in control or the destiny of the planet, and the destiny of everything on the planet. The only thing that can stop us is other humans or when the sun swells up in 5 billion years time and ends everything anyway (even CC! :o) If we wanted to blow the whole Earth up tomorrow we can do that.

We have to eat, like all animals, and (although obviously people can choose to be vegan/vegatarian now) naturally our diet is meat of other animals! There is not a lot of problem with humans killing animals for consumption. Most other animal species do the same!

However, in the animal world, if one animal is killing something else for dinner, they don't tend to make the suffering for the animal last that long. They're hungry! They don't unnecesarily make an animal suffer more than they have to. They just want some dinner.

That's where something like this clip show where some humans are at odds with those principles. This is abuse of being in control of the situation. Giving those dolphins a slow, painful death intentionally is a disgrace, and you can clearly see they are suffering terribly and unnecessarily. If they want to kill them for food or whatever the purpose is, there is certainly a more humane way than that!

Also, slaughtering seals or whatever for coats is wrong IMO for this reasoning.

Rant over

think you may find the force of nature to be dominant on the planet Sam.

Let's be honest, we are pretty much in control - I know we have terrible earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, but none of them are a permanent threat to our living on this planet. If a meteroites asteroid such as that that wiped the dinosaurs out was en route to Earth, we would destroy it in space. The only thing I would say does have the dominant influence is the sun, but we can look at that as a constant!

Hey Barry :)

I do take your points. Yes I do eat meat, I used to be a vegetarian years ago for reasons of conscience. Not cos I thought it wrong to eat meat but the suffering and cruelty involved. I dont; claim to be a saint, and even though I do eat meat I am not proud of that, nor totally comfortable with it in my conscience. I try to eat free range where possible is all I can say. I still do nto, however rationalise my choice to eat meat in the way you suggest. I still dont; think any one life is more important than another, be it fish, bird, mammal or whatever. However, I do think that if we eat other species, we must be prepared to accpet that other species may eat us. Now I know we have few predators, at least in the suburbs of London :D, but if we as humans were to become prey to a superior species or new predator then I would accept it. I woudl tno be happy, but c'est la vie.

I am not a cannibal, but I make no distinction between eating flesh of any kind. If I had to survive and I had ot eat human flesh, I would not relish the prospect purely because it is a bit like eating myself, but I would do it if I had to. On your lampshades made of human skin, have you been watchign too much Chainsaw Massacre? :D Yes, I woudl nto relish the prospect of that but if there are spare human bi prodicts then I could not object morally to using them at all. If I use leather then I should accept using human skin. Thing is though that wont; happen because society sees it as immoral - the general view is that we are the superior species so we see it as okay to exploit other species but not ourselves. And we decide that it is criminal to eat humans, and that killing humans is murder.

Hope this explains it.

I agree. Although I dont; like to eat pork, i feel mean cos pigs are so intelligent. Also as an aside did you know that they are the nearest thing to eating humans?