http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

Here is a petition that's been put online to try to bring about an end to RR in ATP events after Las Vegas.

In case you don't know, Etienne De Villiers decided to disregard the clear rules that put Evgeny Korolev into the QFs in Las Vegas and instead declared James Blake the winner of the group.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/6411211.stm

This is absolutely disgraceful. RR is bad enough but now they're not even prepared to follow their own silly rules.

There is a meeting in Miami during the Miami event in 3 weeks time to review the RR format.

We want to ensure that the REAL fans' views are heard, not these mythical fans who favour the system that Mr Disney constantly refers to.

Please sign the petition and it will be forwarded to the ATP before that meeting.

We want to see RR scrapped without further ado.

Thank you.

Please also forward this URL to any other tennis sites you use and any other people who may wish to sign.

Thanks :)

Cheers, scoobs! :cheers:

Someone else had posted that link earlier, but I think it's buried in the thread about the Blake fiasco. I'll pin this one, so it doesn't get lost.

(Long time no see, btw.)

beat ya to it nick! :P

RR is a joke, but in this case it does seem that it would have been unfair to deny Blake a place in the quarter final - he had three games left to win! And he would have managed it!

I'm not sure I want to blame Blake for this. He is in a rather invidious position. What is true, I think, is that had the roles been reversed, the ATP would not have bothered to reinstate Korolev in favour of Blake.

Nobody is blaming James Blake - the decision wasn't his.

The fact is that the rules were clear - Blake was out, Korolev progressed.

Those rules were then changed MID-TOURNAMENT to allow Blake through.

Surely that's got to be unacceptable - how can the sport have any integrity if they are able to change the rules like this when it suits them - totally on the fly?

As far as Blake was concerned, he had a choice - he could have chosen to let Korolev advance and refuse to take the QF spot. He could have chosen to take the QF spot himself. He chose the latter.

I gather last week in Buenos Aires, Ferrero was given a similar choice in a similar situation and was offended and refused, saying "I don't want to advance like that."

Let's just say I know which player I respect more now.

Signed. Sorry in advance for sounding patronising, but if you leave a comment, please be respectful and don't insult De Villiers, as a couple of the people have done. Saying things like 'you're a joke De Villiers', or 'I hope you resign' will not help the cause at all, and mean that the petition will be taken less seriously. Again many apologies for sounding patronising,

By the way Scoobsuk, nice to see you here! You contributed a very thoughtful post about Nadal on MTF yesterday which was much appreciated.

I don't actually, I think we are a little guilty of jumping on an anti-round robin bandwagon here.

However, the idea has to go

Why was blake out scoobs? As I read it, Blake needed to win having lost no more than 5 games. It was 6-1 3-1! He was going to do it, and anyway, shouldn't the score just be automatically made 6-1 6-1?

I agree with you about the round robin format being hopeless, but I disagree about Blake. It was right he went through.

It was 6-3 3-1

I've heard this thing about the man who won the head to head going through - but if it was one win a piece for everybody, Del Potro has as much right to go through as korolev and blake, so therefore it has to boil down to games and sets, right? :shrug:

STRAIGHT KNOCKOUT REQUIRED AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! roflmao

It says 6-1 3-1 on the beeb :shrug:

Still, technically if Del Potro had to retire, the score would surely have to be made 6-3 3-1 - 4 games dropped.

Round-robin sucks, but it's a bit immature to all throw vitriol at etienne!

My mistake - it was 6-1 3-1.

I appear to have lost the ability to read at some point since last evening...

oddly enough I did exactly the same thing Andy! I saw it as 6-3, 3-1......Nick told me off for drinking too much janx :blink:

No the problem was that Del Potro didn't complete the match.

Under their rules - when a player retires it doesn't count as a completed match for the loser but it does for the winner.

So in terms of wins and losses Blake won 1, lost 1
Korolev won 1, lost 1
Del Potro won 1, lost NONE.

Del Potro is out therefore. So it comes down to the head to head between Blake and Korolev, and Korolev defeated Blake. So Korolev should go through.

The rule is dumb. I agree with that.

But we can't go around changing rules mid-tournament. It stinks.

****

d) The final standing of each group shall be determined by the first of the following
methods that apply:
i) Greatest number of wins;
ii) Greatest number of matches completed (a retirement does not count as a completed match for the retiring player; it does however, count as a completed match for the opponent of the retiring player).
iii) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are tied, then:
aa) If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less than two (2) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to
the finals round competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2) layers tied with 1-1 records; or
bb) Highest percentage of sets won; or
cc) Highest percentage of games won.
dd) If any of the above produces one (1) superior player, then this is the winner of the group; or, if it produces one (1) inferior player, and the two remaining players are tied, the tie between those two (2) players shall be broken by head-to-head record.
iv) If ties still exist after the above procedures, then the player with the highest ranking shall be deemed the winner of the group.
v) In applying the tie-breaking procedures, a conduct default or retirement shall count as a straight set win or loss. However, games won or lost in matches with the defaulting or retiring player shall not be counted in calculating percentage of games won. A player who retires during the Round Robin because of illness or injury may continue in the competition if cleared to play by the Tournament Doctor.

cheers scoobs. :ok: I was looking for those rules, but this stupid computer wouldn't let me open them!

Does anyone on here also post on ESPN or Tennis Warehouse? If so please could you bring this petition to the notice of people on those boards? The more people who sign the better.

Oh, that makes the decision look even worse. I didn't realise it wasn't even meant to come down to games at all.

There's another petition here

not tennis related, but....

slaughter of dolphins

Thanks folks

:)

Also, put the petition on the google groups rec.sport.tennis user group.

(go to www.groups.google.com then search for rec.sport.tennis)

Also, it may be worth writing to Ace Magazine on this.

Well, I didn't know that.. :o

Hmm, kudos to JCF (Bunnypaw will be one very proud bunny!), and am frankly a little disappointed in Blake.. thought that he had a little more to him than that. :( But it's a tricky one. Had JCF not set a precendent then it might have been more forgiveable, I guess. Surely the players talk about this? I would have liked them to have reached some sort of informal consensus amongst themselves.. or at the very least form some sort of consensus about this now after such a shambles.

Will sign the petition. I find it difficult to believe De Villiers when he said that the RR is what the tennis fans want. I haven't heard anyone say that they like it, whether in this crazy world of cyberspace message boards, or otherwise!! :)

Thanks for posting this btw!! :ok:

Shouldn't this be pinned in 'Off The Court', just a suggestion :)

RR has been such a flop, and look at the errors it's now producing :doh:

ATP's attempt to 'publicise' tennis is so backfiring. Tennis just doesnt need RR.......

it is getting publicity, but not the kind ATP should be looking for.... i kinda like the round robin format it terms of the 'kinda league' system thing they have going, but the knockout system is fairer and more clear cut. keep the knockout system.

Juswt read this on the bbc site:

Blake out after ATP admits error

Blake was initially told he had missed out on the quarter-finals

James Blake went out of the Las Vegas Open on Friday after governing body the ATP admitted an earlier decison to reinstate him had been incorrect.

The American finished tied with Juan Del Potro and Evgeny Korolev in the round-robin stage after Del Potro retired with Blake leading 6-1 3-1.

The ATP said Blake should qualify as he was on course when Del Potro retired.

But 24 hours later, ATP chief Etienne de Villiers admitted: "Clearly, I was wrong to intervene."


I regret that I got involved, that I overruled a supervisor, and I regret this storm in a teacup

Etienne de Villiers,
ATP chief executive

Blake had needed to win his final match in straight sets with the loss of no more than five games to secure a quarter-final place, and the suggestion was that Del Potro's retirment had denied him that chance.

De Villiers stepped in, saying: "James was within just a few games of winning this match comfortably to advance."

However, 24 hours later the ATP chief executive said: "I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair.

"However, I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance.

"I apologise to James for giving false hope and to Evgeny for the confusion. I regret that I got involved, that I overruled a supervisor, and I regret this storm in a teacup."

Following a similar situation in Buenos Aires, the round-robin format that was introduced at the turn of the year faces an uncertain future.

"Discussions with ATP Board members and other parties have already started and the future of round robin play has now been put on the agenda for the ATP Board meeting, starting in Miami on 22 March," said De Villiers.

In the end, they won't get rid of it. The whole reason for it is two-fold:
1) It allows people to see their fav player still play even if he/she loses on day 1.
2) It helps prevent players from tanking round 1 matches to get more rest and not get penalized for skipping/pulling out a tourney a tourney.

I say, KILL IT NOW! but it won't happen (stupid ATP)

Blake calls on ATP to change rules after Vegas fiasco

By Simon Cambers

LAS VEGAS, March 2 (Reuters) - World number six James Blake called on the ATP Tour to change the rules at round-robin tournaments after a bizarre 24 hours when he went out of the Las Vegas Open, was reinstated and then eliminated again.

"If some good can come out of it, the revamping or destruction of the round-robin system, then that is something," Blake told reporters on Friday. "It seriously needs to be looked at. We're going to run into situations every single week."

The American made his initial exit when Juan Martin del Potro retired during their round-robin match on Thursday. Blake, leading 6-1 3-1, needed to beat the Argentine with the loss of no more than five games to reach the quarter-finals. But, under the rules, del Potro's withdrawal meant he had only completed one match, knocking him out of a three-way tie with Blake and Russian Evgeny Korolev in Group 1. Since Korolev had beaten Blake in their round-robin match, the Russian advanced. The ATP then reinstated Blake, saying it was a commonsense decision because the rule had not been properly explained, only to reverse its U-turn on Friday morning.

Under its own rules, the sport's governing body cannot overrule the ATP supervisor on such matters.

"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.

"The only thing is that a possible flaw in the rules has been exposed in this round-robin format."
Blake questioned the amount of control a player had in the situation del Potro found himself in.
"Once (he) was down 6-1 3-1 he could have lost a few more games and allowed me to go through or he could have retired and let Evgeny go through," said Blake.

"To put that kind of control in a player's hands is something that needs to be looked at."
Korolev thought the right decision was reached. "It's a really difficult situation," he said. "I was a little angry but you have to understand the situation. "James is a nice guy and I hope he's not angry with me. The thing is you cannot change the rules in the middle of a tournament."
Korolev said many players were against the round-robin format.

"I am actually glad this happened because a lot of players do not agree with the round-robin system," said the Russian.

The 19-year-old said he barely had any sleep after going to bed at 0300 but still managed to beat American Sam Querrey 6-4 6-4 to reach his first ATP semi-final.

"I was happy to play but I was also thinking how James would feel," said Korolev. "I felt a little guilty."

I personally think the petition is too confrontational, and I hesitate to add my name to it. I am against RR, but this could have been conveyed by a much more moderate and mature message.

Extract from this report:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/f...6455198,00.html

Federer says days of round robin are numbered

By Barry Wood

DUBAI, March 3 (Reuters) -

"Everybody knows I was against it (the round robin system) in the first place," said Federer. "It's actually very disappointing to see things like this had to happen first before you realise that the system is not going to work.

"Nothing against Etienne de Villiers, he's trying his best, but all I hope is he doesn't change the integrity of the game.

"I've always said you have to keep tennis the way it is and not try to change and mix it up and try too many things at the same time. He's burned his hands on that, that's for sure, and I doubt it's going to happen next year, the round robin system.

"It's going to be interesting to see their (the ATP's) reaction now because they're definitely under pressure. I think it's a bad situation that happened."

http://www.petitiononline.com/38253825/petition.html roflmao
Half the people who've signed it have said how they think that round robin sucks

Well, as MJT mentioned, the tone of the letter is pretty strong.

And I would say that this probably set the tone for the comments that others have added

I think one of our (or the BEEB's) anti-fedites has decided to reveal their true identity on that thing.

Oops.. I hadn't realised that you were quoting the pro RR petition!! :lol:

I was of course referring to the anti RR petition :rolleyes: