As if Round Robin format was not bad enough, Blake was eliminated today, because his opponent retired before the match was over. The win over del Potro left the three members of his group tied on 1 win 1 loss each. A win, with less than five games lost would have advanced Blake to the QF round, based on the tiebreak system. He seemed well on his way to achieving that, when del Potro retired, with Blake leading 6-1 3-1. Because the match was finished, those games did not count in breaking the tie, so Korolev advanced. Great system. :rolleyes:

I'm not so upset about Blake being out, because he lost his first match, after all. It's such a screwy system, though.

Nick I saw that the reason Blake didn't advance though was because Del Potro retired from the group and that meant that Blake and Korolev were tied on 1 win each... Which then boiled down to who had won on their meeting. It was Korolev and that's why he advanced and Blake didn't...

Blake IS through to the quarters, where he will play Sam Queerey: http://www.tennischannelopen.com/

According to the draw sheet Blake finished bottom of the group, yet he's still shown as progressing to the next round, clearly the ATP have a few issues to solve when showing group standings on the draw sheets.

yeah, i've just checked the website and it says Blake has gone through...... :shrug:

To be honest with all of you I am following the same policy than FED: Avoid the round Robin events, move away from them because they are dangerous for your nerves :yikes: ...

This formula is USELESS it BRINGS nothing and it generates frustrations to the fans as well to the players who do not know where they are (AND IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOURNY AHHHHH!!!!!).

This is purely a Cr@p idea by the (I do not know why I have accepted this job) Mikey Mouse "de Villiers".

This guy is just useless...Have a look at his reaction about the mess in Las Vegas:

"A similar situation occurred in Buenos Aires, which has given us great cause for concern," de Villiers said. "It is clear that fans like round robin and the research confirms it. :yikes: :yikes: But unless we can find a way to ensure that withdrawals don't unfairly affect the outcome of group, I'm afraid round robin will fail."

Details here

Which research? Where? When? How? He is just ...A mouse...A...

Why do we have this guy at the top of the ATP/ Why not a major player from the past who knows the game and respect his rules and will act more quickly to reshape the calendar (the real ISSUE open in today's Tennis, i.e. more space for the grass less for clay and hard court...)...

I cool down now :badpc: ...But could someone start collecting signatures and then send them to the ATP in order to remove this...from the TOP?

Please... :rolleyes:

You are right...From my previous reference it seems that at the end Blake pass roflmao roflmao , More precisely we can read:

Blake said he thought he won the group when del Potro retired.

"I was very confused when they were explaining why I wasn't going through," Blake said. "I didn't think that was right."

Blake will play Sam Querrey on Friday in the quarter-finals, looking to defend his tournament title and prove tournament officials made an accurate call.

"Maybe I'm biased, but I think the right decision was made," Blake said.

More here

Just a mess a pure STUPID Mess :angry: :angry: ....

And here the reactions of the two Top players participating to this event:

LAS VEGAS, March 1 (Reuters) Tennis-Safin, Hewitt slam ATP over Blake reinstatement fiasco-

The American was handed a place in the last eight by the ATP despite the fact that under its own rules, Russian Evgeny Korolev should have advanced instead, thanks to his victory over Blake in their round-robin match earlier in the week.

In a statement, the ATP said Blake would be awarded the group win "on the basis that the rules were not sufficiently explained".
Needing to beat Argentine Juan Martin del Potro with the loss of no more than five games to advance to the last eight, top seed Blake was leading 6-1 3-1 when his opponent retired because of breathing problems, handing Blake a walkover.

But Blake was then told he would not advance as the rules stated games won or lost in a walkover did not count and his place would go to Korolev only for the ATP to backtrack and send the American through.
Safin and Hewitt said the ATP had been wrong.

"I want to say that the way it has been handled is just a disgrace," Safin told Reuters.
"I feel very bad for Korolev because he had nothing to do with it. He's a young guy, only on the tour a year and all of a sudden he got screwed by the organisation.
"For a serious organisation like the ATP, you can't make these kind of decisions in the middle of the week, by the phone, without being there, and not to talk to the guy that's in the situation.
"And the CEO (Etienne de Villiers) disappointed me a lot. In this situation he should have handled it in a different way. It's ridiculous what they did. They have no explanation and it doesn't really fit in my brain.

HEWITT MYSTIFIED
Safin said had the shoe been on the other foot, Korolev would not have been given the place in the last eight.
"This is exactly the saddest part," he said. "If it had been the other way around, nobody would care about it and it just would be no discussion at all."
Hewitt said he was 'mystified' by the decision.
"To change a rule mid-tournament - that's just not right," he said.
"We all start a tournament in the same boat, in the same situation. I feel sorry for the bloke that misses out, that's for sure."
The ATP said Korolev had been awarded $11,375, the average sum of the prize money for the quarter-finals and semi-finals, but Hewitt said he would have been livid.
"(I'd be) pissed off," he said. "This is a kid on the rise. He's beaten Blake (6-2 6-4) two nights ago. A little bit of prize money's not going to mean a whole lot to him.

"It would have been unlucky for James, he was only three games away from getting through but rules are rules.
"If that had been me, I would have done everything in my power to get through, big tournament or small tournament"
Hewitt said he and several other players had been told the rule by the ATP before del Potro's withdrawal.
"Me and a few other guys were sitting in the players lounge watching the match. We said, 'is there any way that Korolev gets though?' And they said, 'if del Potro withdraws'. Even on TV they were saying it, so everyone was aware of the rule.
"The rules are in place -- you can't do anything about that. So that's why I'm a little bit gobsmacked. It really is amazing."

Continue the good work :ok: Hewitt & Safin :ok: : We will might be able to remove the Mouse (de Villiers) at the end of the year..Let's :pray: :pray:

That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard of. How can they be sure that Blake would have lost less than 5 games.....he'd already lost 4 :unsure:

But of course, chucking the top-seeded American out of the tournament would not have made them particularly popular with fans........ :whistle:

Dinky Jo :ok:

Might be this is the famous research Mouse de Villiers is referring too... roflmao roflmao

What a clown this man

This is the bit that gets me - Del Potro retired and Blake had already lost 4 games. How on earth do they know that Del Potro wouldn't have won another 2 games??? It appears there were strict rules laid down and that the ATP have just gone back on them entirely, i would suggest probably to keep the fans and the organisers happy! Absolute disgrace!

This is absurd.

Giving Korolev the money looks to me like the ATP knowing they are in the wrong and trying to keep everything quiet.

The worst thing about this is if Blake had been due to go through initially then the rules wouldn't have suddenly changed like this.

i hope the players go on strike........ :blink:

You have to love Safin!

well, i do :wub:

De Villiers and the ATP are a disgrace, hell bent on the killing the sport. Corrupt tw*ts. Korolev should make a stand against this.

i think they all should. If hewitt and Safin agreed to strike, and possibly persuaded some of the others, it would absolutely destroy the tournament.

i suspect that the ATP were maybe put under pressure by the organisers who didn't want the top-seed (and local boy?) to go out that early???

Hopefully this incident, coupled with farce at Buenos Aires last week where Devilder didn't know that he had qualified for the quarter-finals and went missing, are a nail in the coffin of this ridiculous round robin idea. Dead rubbers, confusion, people tanking, it's all a joke.

I'd have felt sorry for Blake if Korolev had gone through, but I feel even more sorry for Korolev now. He had the best win of his life, annihilating Blake, and it means next to nothing.

Hopefully some good will come out of this sorry situation, and the round robin format will be disposed of quicker than a Pete Sampras ace.

Slight correction, Dinky. Blake had only lost 2 games. He was leading 6-1 3-1 over del Potro. He probably would have closed it out and advanced, but we can't know for sure. The real issue with the rule, thouugh, is that he DID end up with the best record of the group, when you considered sets and games lost (if you include the 6-1 3-1 score over del Potro), so I thought the rules that denied him a place in the quarters were bad. But it seems somehow worse for them to change their rules after the fact and send Blake on through.

What a mess!! :doh:

my god, at what point did i stop being able to read :doh:

It's the fact that they changed their rules, and it looks suspiciously like they did it just for blake! :unsure:

If you think RR is past its sell-by date, check out this petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

I've signed it myself, I think its way past time that this stupid idea was scrapped.

Probably after the third Janx last night. :D

are you kidding - trisco busted me trying to steal alcohol and young men........ :blink: no janx for me (or young men either......) :tsk:

it'll be interesting to see what the ramifications are of this mess - obviously safin and hewitt aren't amused, Blake thinks it was the right decision (well, of course) - no comment from Korolev yet tho......

Wow!! This is shocking! What a balls up and such an insult to the young Russian. Maybe Blake should make a stand and step down and let the guy in?

Yeah. I like Blake, but I'm a little disappointed with him in this matter. I understand him thinking he was screwed by the rules, because I think he was, too. But they shouldn't change the rules retroactively. The should adjust them for the next tournament, maybe . . .

I think Blake should have turned down the offer to reverse the decision and send him through, though, and let Korolev have the place the he earned under the rules as they stood.

I've signed it, although what good it will do, I don't know.

I'd be interested to see what would have happened if the roles of Korolev and Blake had been reversed. Would Korolev have been let through at Blake's expense?

Round robin is an abysmal idea. If you lose a match, you go home. Simple as.

I think making an assumption about who is going to win a match is a dumb idea - i mean, how do they know that Blake wasn't going to have a minor slump and lose the rest of that set! It's been known to happen :whistle:

Does anyone know anything about the problems in Buenos Aries?

It also brings up the possibility about players working together to get each other through... you might laugh, but it's certainly possible.



Re. Buenos Aires, from what I gather, a player, Nicolas Devilder, made it through the Round Robin but had lost a match and thought he was out of the tournament so left and they couldn't contact him to let him know he was still in the tournament!

The RR group was JCF, Devlder & Lapentti. Devilder beat JCF and lost to Lapentti to get a 1-1 record. Lapentti then got injured and couldn't play against JCF so Dlouhy was brought in to play against JCF as a lucky loser. JCF beat Dlouhy so he had a 1-1 record as well but he was 3-2 in sets won to 2-2 for Devilder.

Devilder assumed that this meant that JCF was through to the QF so left BA. However, he had actually qualifed because he'd beaten JCF so won the group on the h2h. Search parties were dispatched which fortunately managed to find him in time to play the QF.

The other thing to note is that the JCF-Dlouhy match was going to be a dead match anyway. Even if JCF won, as he did, he couldn't progress to the QF. If Dlouhy won, he couldn't progress either because he hadn't played 2 matches. To qualify for the QF, players have to play both their RR matches (which is why Lapentti didn't qualify although his 1-0 record was better than the 1-1 for both JCF and Devilder).

Hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, blame that idiot de Villiers. Pretty soon, players are going to need to add mathematicians to their team of coach/physio, etc.

I'm not sure there is any good solution to this.
To add to the problem is Del Potro saying that if he'd had known, he'd have played out the last 3 games to make it official and put James through. This also isn't fair for Korolev since it would have been assured that he'd have not won any of the 3 games, since he really wouldn't have been trying.
Reasonably, Blake should have gone through - why you throw out the score when it's that close to finish is beyond reason. Legally, Korolev should go through since the rules are rules and shouldn't be changed mid-tournament. Logically, Korolev should go because he had already beaten James.
Intelligently, Safin and Hewitt should shut up since they're personal biases are already known and don't need to be re-aired here.


Overall, This, more clearly. points out the problem with the RR system and the fact that it needs to go NOW.

It's definitely a screwed up situation, but I don't think it has anything to do with making an assumption about what might have happened. Instead of sticking to the rule about throwing out games from a "walkover", they went back and counted what did happen (ie Blake being up 6-1 3-1).

Which is against the rules but the correct thing to do.

Think of this as if del Petro doesn't like, or hates, Blake (not true but make it an assumption - or replace del Petro with Hewitt ;) ). Korolev beats Blakes but they are tied going into this game - and the opponent doesn't like Blake. Now, he can retire mid/late-game and throw it to Korolev instead of playing it out to a loss and giving the spot to Blake.
How would that be fair?

The RR rules are stupid, as is RR, and if they're going to force it down our throats. they might as well build better rules - maybe modify cricket's rules for rain -- those are easier to understand.

It now seems ATP have backtracked, Blake is out and Korolev is through. What a mess

It's very simple. RR will inevitably throw up the possibility of dead rubbers and the possibility of a player being tempted to tank a match to assist or prevent another player going through.

NO amount of rule juggling can eliminate that risk entirely. When there is only one player the risk is huge - nobody else knows what is going on in his mind and he can always blame a loss of form or a headache or soemthing.

It is less of a problem with team games such as football matches because you have to get a whole team of 11 players to tank. Even so, the most controversial 'tank' I remember was Germany 1 - 0 Austria in the 1982 World Cup.

Round Robin is not a success and the experiment should end this year.

:huh:

this is stupid, RR has to go before it generates any more bad press

Blake is now out of Las Vegas, just been confirmed :wacko:

RR needs to go...now!

Where did you see that?

ATP STATEMENT REGARDING TENNIS CHANNEL OPEN

An incorrect variation of ATP rules resulted in the erroneous passage of James Blake into the quarterfinals of the Tennis Channel Open in Las Vegas, and according to the rules Evgeny Korolev will advance instead of Blake, the ATP announced today.

Blake had advanced after ATP Chairman and President Etienne de Villiers had been called in to discuss a controversial end to the Blake/Korolev/Juan Martin del Potro group. Blake needed to complete his match, beat del Potro in straight sets and concede five games or less. Blake was leading 6-1, 3-1 when del Potro retired from the match with breathing problems.

The relevant rule states that an incomplete match shall not count as a match played for the retiring player. This eliminated del Potro based on the tiebreak procedure for greatest number of completed matches and left only Blake and Korolev tied with 1-1 records. Therefore, under ATP rules Korolev should have advanced having beaten Blake in their round robin encounter.

The same ATP Rulebook prevents the ATP Chairman and President or any ATP staff member from making a judgment call on the rules, as no variation can be implemented without ATP Board approval. The rules state that the final decision at a tournament rests solely with the ATP Supervisor.

“I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair. However I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance,” de Villiers said.

‘This is of course an unpleasant situation for all involved, but we must abide strictly by the rules. I apologize to James for giving false hope and to Evgeny for the confusion. I said we would be prepared to make mistakes but that we would reverse them if necessary and learn from them.”

“I hope that it is recognized that I acted in good faith and my intentions were to do the right thing and see fairness prevail. Clearly, I was wrong to intervene. I have always maintained that we should experiment with new and different ideas and it was with this in mind that I made what I thought was a fair call.”

“I regret that I got involved, that I overruled a Supervisor and I regret this storm in a teacup,” said de Villiers.

“What this situation and a somewhat similar confusing end to a group result in Buenos Aires have shown is that the experiment has brought a sharp focus onto specific flaws involved with round robin competition and the review of the format and the decision as to whether to continue at all, will now be brought forward.”

The experiment with round robin play, inspired and supported by research that showed strong support for the format by fans, was to have involved 12 – 13 tournaments over the entire 2007 ATP season.

“Discussions with ATP Board members and other parties have already started and the future of round robin play has now been put on the agenda for the ATP Board meeting, starting in Miami on March 22,” de Villiers said. (ATP Press Release)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/6411211.stm :)

Er..... wakey wakey - every true sports fan knows and understands the maxim "no rules no game". If the administrator does not, the fans' reaction is hardly a "storm in a teacup".