Well, I used :shrug: to…......not that I have left her for dead, but you might say it is a pretty thin line at the moment. By the way…I am not trying to hate her at all…or even if I daresay trying to racially insinuate anything ala( Jade from the big brother UK house and her Indian shenanigans).. and certainly not some armchair tennis commando waiting to snipe at floundering tennis professionals..

Her attitude seems fine but her tennis personality is what I find hard to understand. She really showed a lot of promise in her early years. But, I am increasingly saddened by her inability to raise her game when it always matters. Her match against Vera Z. was the breaking point. Mind you, I am thoroughly aware that Vera is no longer a crybaby.. :) probably more of an opportunistic punisher now, but that said.. she never even changed her game…

Vera plays well off the baseline, so trying to vary your game by slowing your game down a bit and drawing her in sometimes would help. But, like broken vinyl record..she kept going at Vera with the same thumping balls. No backhand volleys, no dropshots, no spins. Ana is not a petite girl.... :blink: but she doesn't even put away high forehand volleys. I wouldn't even talk about her net game....because it didnt really exist, if there at all. Is it maybe a lack of focus cause I didnt think she had any "barbie ambitions" or maybe a coaching change might do the trick....

Okay, lets just say it was one of those days…,,, those days when you have cramps and others to battle with as well… at least let your opponent second guess you a bit by trying something different..even :doh: wildly different…

Some think Patty Schynder :hug: goes “cuckoo” sometimes, but even Patty realising she was being mauled by Alicia Molik's heavy punches in the first set.. decided that .....this situation doesn't call for any medications. Nothing clever,, she simply decided to move around the ball more often and allow her stronger lefty forehand to do more of the work….simply giving her more control..
As the commentator rightly said….she was toast in the first set but at the end she was the one toasting with the crowd. :) Well done Patty…!!!

Alas :huh: , Ana may not have stuck around to learn a thing or two…but who knows…it could be that she doesn’t feel any love from her fans anymore. Hence, no motivatation or push to climb higher.

This begs the question if anyone does really cares about how well she does anymore. Not even discounting the testosterone charged affections from some fans who are in it for non-tennis related reasons. I know I had similar issues with Elena D. but understandably.. Elena may have an :) imaginary something that plays tricks on her sometimes… As for Ana :shrug: , she always seems non chalantly, all round solid and ready to go…..

Much Ado about nothing maybe...but I may not be the only one who feels there an unfulfilled potential thing going on here.....

I understand what you're saying. I've been an Ana fan ever since she appeared on the circuit, and obviously while I was first attracted to her through her looks, I've kept abreast of every match she's played and there does seem to be a recurring theme here. Her loss to Zvonereva was appalling. I know Vera's been in good form for a while now, but she simply doesn't have the potential that Ana does and for the Serb to only win 3 games does highlight the horrible inconsistencies of her game.

Cards on the table, I'd put both Ivanovic's serve and forehand in the top 3 of the women's game, when firing. And that's the problem. She has so many days like today when she looks like a little girl lost, which grates even more when you look at her thrashing of Vania King: she was awesome in that match, and on that form would have probably beaten anyone in the draw. But her ability to string together consecutive solid performances is practically non-existent. She managed it at the Rogers Cup, but didn't have to beat many big names, and even in the final she met Hingis, a player whose game doesn't match up well against an in-form power player.

But to say 'does anyone care anymore?' is jumping the gun to the extreme. She is only 19 still, and has plenty of time to rid her game of these frustrating inconsistencies. Take a look at her website if you think no-one cares; she has an army of adoring fans who care just as much about her game as they do her looks. Reading the site will also dispel any myths that she might go down the Kournikova route, this girl is truly dedicated to tennis, even if she might be a bit naive about the impact these photo-shoots are doing.

I used to think Ana would go on to dominate the game, but now sadly I'm not so sure. I'm positive she'll win some Slams but it's hard to see this inconsistency leaving her game completely; in some ways she's comparable to Safin, although obviously he's already had some success. I could write all day about Miss Ivanovic and her game, and I appreciate how frustrating it is to support her, but she is still progressing up the rankings at a steady rate, and given her age there's not too much cause for concern. I'd advise her to take a year out of off-court modelling etc and see how much of an effect it has on her game, it might help to improve her consistency.

I'll always be a fan of Ana and I'll always care... if only because I can always console myself after a defeat by looking at pictures of her :wub:

Well I wouldn't put her serve and forehand top 3 even when firing. Three most powerfull maybe...

But I think the best is definitely yet to come from this girl. Though I don't see her doing much at the moment, and Im not a particularly big fan anyway.

Firstly, I'd say that Ana's defeat was not appalling. Vera Zvonareva was a top 10 player just 2-3 years ago, so to describe her as an opportunistic punisher is way off the mark. She is technically very strong, both at the baseline and at the net (she is one of the best female doubles players around too). She is also just 21-22 still but now has a wealth of experience. I actually thought she'd win, simply because Ivanovic is not good enough.. for now.

And the fact that Ana has a lot of fans on her website means zip. Nothing. She is pretty, and has a higher profile because that, compared to the other tennis players. It's the same with Makiri with her Stella McCartney outfits. If they looked ordinary then they wouldn't be getting anywhere near the attention that they get right now!

It's the same with Sania Mirza, but this time it's because she's Indian and female and India has not had many really good female tennis players. Again, these circumstances result in her actions being scrutinised far more than they would be for other players who are undoubtedly better but just quietly get on with their game.

I've seen Ivanovic play a few times, and to be honest she has a decent-ish serve and heavy groundstrokes. however they are not sufficiently technically strong not to break down, nor is does she have the weaponry to execute a plan B if plan A goes wrong. And it's the same with Makiri and Mirza.

There are many girls with punishing grounstrokes who can knock others off the court. Ivanovic, Makiri and Mirza are just 3 examples. They really don't have the guile, the touch, the all-court game to really challenge.

Yes, they are young. But unless they really want to move up a level, then they aren't going to progress. For starters, there are other girls who hit better than them, like Safina, Vaidisova, and other girls who are progressing more than them, like Jankovic for example.

So the ball is in their court. however with the attention that they get, maybe the moderate success that they have is enough for them? However, one thing's for sure. If it weren't for their looks, status (in the case of Mirza) then they wouldn't have half of the interest that they have. And to be honest you could never say that any of the 3 currently have an attractive game to watch either.

But never say never, they could get better, and it is indeed early days. But really anyone who declares themselves a big fan usually has interests other than tennis in mind ;)

it's far too early to be writing off ivanovic.

True.. and by the same accounts, no-one should be expecting her to be scaling the heights of the rankings.. yet. Time will tell.

Her loss to Zvonareva was appalling. She was spraying unforced errors woefully wide and long on a frequent basis. Zvonareva played well and is a proven good player, but a match between these two should not be so one-sided - let's not forget that Ana was the higher seed. I predicted a Vera win too, to cast aside any doubt... I didn't in my worst nightmares think it would be so straightforward though. I'd add that people thought she must have been injured - that's how bad she was!

I could understand the point about website fans meaning nothing, but I'm not talking about people who just say 'You're fit' and the like, there's some really decent analysis of her matches there and plenty of encouragement, even after this loss... not the greatest measure of a player's standing, but still ample evidence to answer the question 'Does anyone care about Ana any more?'

I don't much buy all this cynicism about the origin of her fans either, I get the impression she's always going to have this hanging over her head. I happily admit I started following her because of her looks, but I really like her tennis when she plays properly, and from what I can guage about her personality, she's an extremely charming human being too. The problem is, like you say, people hyping her up basically because she's beautiful (and same for Mirza): people want her to be another Sharapova and believe that by giving her all this attention, it'll set the wheel in motion. It should be the other way round - get some consistently great results to get yourself noticed, then let the press jump on the bandwagon.

In terms of this discussion, all that's irrelevant: she remains a young player with a good deal of potential, and whether she can fulfil it is a question that obviously causes a lot of debate. She is inconsistent, she does have weaknesses with her game-plan and to some extent her backhand, there are other young guns with advantages over her in some ways, but to write her off at the age of 19 is rather ridiculous.

Why do you never post this sensibly on BBC? :D

Good post Wise! :ok:

Yes, whilst it was not a surprise that Vera beat Ana, it was more one-sided than it perhaps should have been. I had also noticed that you had predicted that Vera would win, as did I.

In terms of seedings, yes, Ivanovic was the higher seed. However Zvonareva was actually ranked about 70-80 as recently as 6 months ago. She has been on an upwards curve since then and probably has the momentum in that respect.

Also, much of the women's game is currently about flat, power-hitting. And when player go for the lines like that, if their radar is off, or there is a technical issue, then the errors can become quite glaring. And this is no doubt what happened to Ivanovic.

Oh, it would certainly be unfair to generalise about all of the Ivanovic fans. I wouldn't argue that there are people who don't care about her anymore. I would still maintain that a lot of people have paid attention to her because she is undoubtedly pretty, and that will bring her more fans. There will be the process of them paying more attention to her as a person because they like how she looks, and then more attention to her game through that.

With such high-profile attention comes expectation, and after expectation comes diappointment if this is not met. It is definitely unfair on her.

I think that this is the crux of the issue about writing her off. Writing her off from what? I doubt that she has been stating that she will be another Sharapova, so the media must shoulder the blame here. It ought to be the other way round, i.e. good player gets press, as you say, but the women's game is far more susceptible to the media pushing the starlets as the next big things, especially if they are pretty.

So, yes, she needs to work on her game. You would hope that Jelena Jankovic would serve as some sort of inspiration esp as just a year ago she was suffering bad losses. She nearly jacked it all in and went back to her studies, but was persuaded otherwise via a heart to heart chat with her mother. She has a different game of course, but just goes to show what application, self belief and some fulfilling of talent can do for you. And also Ivanovic is in the top 20 still which ain't exactly so shabby is it? It's how she can turn this around and make 2007 a great year for her, that is the key. But it needs to be a great year by the standards of her and her team, and not the inflated standards of the media.

Shot selection to me is a worry with Ivanovic, sometimes she's just too audacious, and she cant pull shots off. Has such a big game, lovey early-ball strike on both sides, but sometimes she can look so wild its unbelievable. The footwork collapses and she just looks vulnerable.

Ivanovic needs to work on just getting a bit more court-speed as well. All these young players nowadays ( Sharapova, Vaidisova, Ivanovic, Safina etc), are all huge hitters of the ball, but are such poor movers at times. I think movement has been compromised for power IMO.

Short Answer: No, but then I never really did. She has the potential to do better if she was more consistent, but Elena has the potential to do better IF she has a better serve etc.

Then again didn't everyone say in the early 90's that Lindsay would never win a slam and look what happened there.

roflmao .. Taking no prisoners there petalp......

I do get your point....and Vera punishing opportunistic mistakes is actually a compliment.... Remember back on the beeb...with then Crybaby russiafan.. we were mighty impressed with Vera's improvement and her new found grit...

On any good day...with both players in form...it wouldn't be a walkover either for Ana.... Vera is tenacious... and her reading of her opponents is vastly improved...
Vera may very well soundly school her...but it is fair when you do play a good game but get beaten by an equally tough opponent.

Infact, that is what I thought of Jelena and Serena's contest.... Jelena is nost definately on the up and up...but she simply run into another girl who just didnt want to go away.... not this time!! She didnt play poorly....

Your statement does bring to mind the ...irrepressible Kournikova.....she will certainly disagree with you on her biggest fans thing.... roflmao

I can't say I've seen that much of Ivanovic play but I have heard all the fuss over the last couple of years. The other name to conjure with back then was Jankovic. From what i can tell she has not achieved what was promised and her peers are improving, like Jankovic who is much better. What I have seen of Ivanovic has been patchy, one dimesnional and inconsistent and taking into accout her results too, I think she's been over hyped due to perhaps her looks. Now when I look at bets on youn goutsiders in slams, I dismiss Ana immediately and look at Janko, Safina and Vadisova instead. So I dont; care really! roflmao

The other day I found out that one of our Finance Manager was Ana's cousin. He has pictures with her. The guy knows a lot about tennis and they email each other. He still believes in her - as you would suspect - but he has much more faith in Jankovic. Still Ana's is prettier....

:) Interestingly....Ana is trying to prove me wrong...... :rolleyes: ...finals at roland Garros ... piping her fellow mate Jankovic to a slam final..... good on her ...

But she is still a crowd pleaser :rolleyes: ....

Definately played a good game against sharapova......who I believe was allowed to live this long by Patty .... but in the end it is very good for her because...she just knocked out the world number 2 and 3 ,,,,,,,but I think Justine is a step too far....simply because of variety.....

If justine doesn't cramp or feel sick ..like one of those days...it may be a good final just to see what Ana would bring to the table...... A fairy tale if Ana should win....
but I will still stick my neck out for Miss Henin..... :)

By the way Tenez.......your Manager must be going bananas for Ana..... even if he doesn't show it around the office... :)

Indeed Ana has found consistency which is a guess a sign that her game has matured.

Patty really should have finished off "the cow on ice" (Masha's words not mine), then we would have had a Patty vs Anna C QF which would have been an intriguing battle of tenacity and spins....and then Anna could have made her firts slam semi or even final....ok now I'm just dreaming, but still Patty should have taken Maria out sooner and saved her the embarrassment of that defeat to Ana.

Yip.. fair play to Ana!!

I would however qualify this by saying that the lower half of the draw has been one of the weakest that I have seen.. however, all it needed was for someone in the top 16 to show some form, and Ana has done just that.

I still maintain that if her radar is off then she does shank an awful lot, and technical deficincies come into play. But when she is on song she hits that ball very hard indeed.

Well, hopefully her radar won't go askew in the final. Good luck to her!

:P

:ok:

Also I do consider myself a fan now :D I need someone new to support anyway for in 5 years or so when Serena and Venus are gone :(

I'm a fan of Ivanovic, i've always liked her shot-making, but i'm liking her personality more and more now :D

Noone will replace Venus for me, but Ana will be a start ;)

I first became a fan after watching her playing in 2004, against Venus in Zurich - followed her progress closely ever since via her excellent website. She may never win as many Slams as some of the current top players, but in terms of grace, beauty and sportsmanship she's leagues ahead and I'm sure she always will be. Here's a short article she wrote on her site ahead of today's match:

I'm shortly going off to get very drunk, so I'm relying on her newer fans to cheer her on this afternoon! I think she can win, but that's as far as I'm willing to go - Henin will definitely be favourite to win in straight sets. Whatever happens, she's had a fantastic couple of weeks and should be proud of her achievements.

I quite liked a remark made by Ana to French TV.They suggested that she and Sharapova were alike and she said she thought they weren't adding 'Moi je suis brune et moi je suis gentille'!Ouch!

Well, it looks as if she did indeed shank in the final.

I really like Ana. She brings a really positive energy to the court, and will win people over (and not just because of her looks).

However I do think that she is symptomatic of today's style of player in the women's game, where if plan 'A' doesn't work for a player, then they have no plan 'B' to turn to.

However, she has gone on record as saying that she watches the men's game and feels that she can learn a lot from it. I believe that she has namechecked a certain R Federer as one from whom she does take inspiration.

In this respect, she is showing a clear desire to develop her game, to give it more dimensions, get a plan 'B', or more! In this respect she has every chance of transcending the one-dimensional power-hitting style that is dominating the women's game.

If she can do that, then she has a great future ahead of her. The women's game could indeed do with more players with that attitude.. the more all-court players in the game, the better! :)

I sure a few of the men could do with imitating Federer as well if they could, easier said than done though :lol: Ana is one of the classic examples where plan A works so well you don't need a plan B, unfortunately for her (among others) plan A can tend to go awry a lot, so she obviously does need to think about a plan B.

True.. the problem is that clay happens to be a surface where plan 'A' adopted by so many players can go awry all too easily, and plan 'B' is needed..

.. esp when your opponent happens to be Justine who has a few dimensions to her game, and can neutralise most players' power hitting on that surface very easily..

I guess Ivanovic'c progress this RG has proved a few people wrong. However her big opponents did play appalingly and someone had to capotalise on that more shambolic part of the draw. I dont; want to detract form her achievements but her effort sin the final confirmed my opinions on her weaknesses. No plan B as everyone seems to agree, and lack of consitency. i thought her movement was appalling and she failed to stay focused and tough. Mayeb she will develop consitency, who knows, but the onyl thing that impressed me overall was her serving.

This seems a pretty fair assessment to me.However,she's not alone in lacking a plan 'B' in women's tennis(Sharapova is another) and she has got an appealing personality.I just wish there were more players like Mauresmo and Justine in the women's game.

I don' think it's just confined to the women's game though, if you look at the men's top ten the only one with as much variety in his game as Justine and Mauresmo is Federer.

Agressive baseline tennis is the name of the game for 90% of tennis players today, some are all court players, so can mix it up if things aren't going quite right, but if you look at a lot of players on both tours, if it's not going right they are going to lose horribly, I mean look at Roddick, what can he do if his serve isn't firing, or Davydenko if his forehand isn't on, or Blake, if his forehand isn't working. They'll lose :wacko:

Attacking tennis is so common today players are bound to make more errors, but they need to work on being more consistent.

Quite agree. :ok:

It's quite unfair really as everyone watches Federer play and then wonders why the other plays can't produce such tennis, or similar games, he's set the benchmark too high for anyone else to reach :lol:

But it cuts both ways.Maybe we're expecting too much of Fed asking him to win RG?

Thanks :)

I agree she is not the only one without a B game, sadly there seems to be a lot fo new players being trained to have power over consistency, tactical awareness, guile and finesse. Cant; stand these one dimensional players, variety and class always win out for me. :ok:

I agree also on your comments on Justine and Amelie, bar far the best players to watch. :ok:

Fair comment, but I do think that the one dimensionality is less obvious in the men's game. Plenty of the men that are labelled as big hitters have more consitency and play better tactically overall than say Ivanovic, Sharapova, Mirza. It certainly seems that way anyway. I wouldn't call Murray and Gasquet one dimensional big hitters either, although the latter does tend to be annoyingly inconsistent. :)

True, but I'm so glad he has. I might nto watch so much tennis otherwise. :D

I would agree with that. In the women's game there is far too much emphasis on getting as much power out of their shots as possible. Hardly see anyone with variety to their game. They probably do have touch and finesse, but it's too often big-hitter against big-hitter and the touch players can't seem to survive in that environment.

Look at how many players hit one-handed backhands, for example. In the women's game, there is only Justine and Amelie. In the men's game there are loads. Federer, Gasquet, Blake, Gaudio, Youzhny, Safin, to name but a few. Much more difficult to vary shots when you have two hands on that racquet. ;)

Yes I'd agree with that, Ivanovic is still very young though and Sharapova's still only 20, so you'd hope they'd still develop more to their games, and coming to the net and working on volleying technique is something that I find the women tend to get better at, as they get older. Moreso than the men who seem to be more confident at the net at a younger age.

Gasquet is of course one of the players with as much variety to his game as Federer, or near it anyway. Murray certainly isn't one dimensional, but he is one of many who I feel could do with a more effective plan B.

I think we do forget though that not all females are as naturally athletic as the Williams sisters or Steffi Graf, women just aren't as athletic as men on the whole, so female tennis players have to exert a certain amount of time on fitness as well as working on creating the power in their shots and technique itself. Because lets face it with these graphite racquets a timid shot isn't going to do anything. It's a hard compromise to find, perhaps women would have been better off sticking with wooden racquets.

To be honest, a few on this board and on the BBC I've seen, complain about the monotony of women's tennis, but I enjoy watching, and players like Sharapova and say Golovin. Its not like they have exactly the same game, they play agressive baseline tennis, but if you watch them regularly you can spot the differences in their games a mile off. To me, a lot of the men seem to be pretty similar and don't have anything that jumps at me, but perhaps thats because I don't watch them enough. :shrug:

Also lets not forget that at the moment we have a lot of experienced middle generation players at the top of the ATP at the moment, with younger ones only just breaking through such as Murray, Djokovic, Berdych.

Whereas with the WTA we've had a lot of people retire recently and it happens that a lot of the people in the top 10 or near it are in their teens or early 20s, we have veterans like Bammer and Sugiyama there still who certainly have a lot of experience and options. So I think the WTA and ATP are in different stages of transition at the moment. Obviously you're not comparing like with like anyway, as men's tennis has been considered a proper sport for longer and is further along the evolutionary process.

I do find it OTT when people say the WTA is in straights though, I mean come on :rolleyes: The main problem at the moment is injuries and not enough consistent rivalries.

The other that annoys me is how the term "power play" is bandied around, nearly every single person on both tours hits the ball REALLY hard for their comparative gender, Justine hits one of the hardest balls! The term power play has become associated with one dimensional baseliner nowadays, which is imo an erroneous connotation to perceive.

What gets me on both tours is how unwilling players are to come into the net, its worse than 5 years ago, and even 5 years ago it was worse than 5 years before that. It probably is more obvious in women's tennis, although I feel part of that is more people are apt to point it out.

Talking about coming to the net, again thinking about it, the more experienced tend to come in a lot more than the younger ones, look at how Nadal has started working on his net game, so it just takes time I guess :shrug:

Wow this turned into a really long post in the end :lol:

:) I'm not going to bash Ana at all... I'm actually quite satisfied with her improved game and overall attitude since Jan aussie Open. As Vivahate rightly said she is young and truthfully ...too early to to be slamming her.

But, indeed, as I've mentioned before, when she comes up against the determined top notch players...she tends to fade to black quite easily. This was just examplified by the way in which Venus easily dispatched off her. To be fair, Venus has been playing top 10 quality tennis at the USopen and she would certainly give any other top 10 player something
very tough to chew on..

I still attribute it to her weak plan B' . And you have to agree here to some extent, Wize Analyst, because it contributes to her rapide show of nerves.
When you have nothing else to rely on to confuse your opponent, you will surely get nervous if they pounce on your game and start to lay siege.

She does play well against Kutznetsova and Jelena because... this year inparticular those two don't raise their game as much,,,not even when its a crunch game. Frankly, I'm surprised by how little Kutzy gets pumped in crunch games , it is usually her opponents who 'error prone' themselves out. As for Jelena, I think she is yet to fully mature in her mental game, cause her game style is fairly competitive..

I won't begrudge Ana her due :) ,,, afterall her draw at this year's Usopen is as hard as it could ever have been, but certainly given time, a firming of her mental psyche and an improvement in her game plan B.....she should be a regular game contender even at the major grand slams( I believe she has made some good strides forward this year).

:rolleyes: However, it would be a shame if she was going to wait for the likes of Serena and Venus to go shopping or spend more time on fashion or for Justine to be injured or something so she can rise to fore..
I hope its not that....cause that would be quite unwise. Lets hope she rises to the challenges ahead.....

That statement has rung true this year!

I think the problem with Ana (and Jankovic I suppose) is that I don't think they bring anythin unique to the table to get them to the very top and be able to win these big matches. The WTa churns out many "robots", and though Ana is obviously a well developed one, that, to me, is largely her game in a nutshell. Justine brings incredible variety, skill, defence and fine shotmaking to the court, the williamses bring incredible power, and great mobility. things that make them stand out from the rest.

Ivanovic will only really get as far as Sharapova for me, and probably the same for jankovic - probably capable of winning the odd slam, but not when the genuine elite are about and playing anywhere near their best.

Nice post Suzi, and I pretty much agree with all of it.

After the match yesterday I was quite angry with Ana, but on reflection, Venus is simply a better player... and given their similar playing styles, she will emerge victorious on the majority of occasions. They're both primarily players who can hit the ball very hard - the big difference, as we saw last night, is that Ana doesn't quite know what to do when her bombs come back. There is no real Plan B.

However, she is working on that - her defence might not be to notch yet, but it's improved a lot this year, although the backhand slice still needs a lot of work. Her volleys yesterday were atrocious, but it was good that she had the confidence to come into the net - her volleys as a rule aren't bad and she's obviously been practising, otherwise she wouldn't have approached so often.

I think she plays well against Kuznetsova and Jankovic because she's better than them and knows it... but with the Williams sisters and Henin, I still think she gets intimidated on court. Whether she'll ever be able to take them out at the business end of a Slam, I don't know... if she can improve the weaknesses in her game, who knows?

Like Sam says, I don't think Ivanovic has anything truly unique or special, that we've not seen before, but she's still a very good player. And of all the young guns, I don't see anyone of the same quality to the WS or Henin that are going to prevent Ana winning Slams in the future. 4 or 5 Slams is a realistic target, although I'd be happy with one. :)