Having watched her yesterday in the 1999 French Open Final,I was prompted to find out what her Head to heads were like.And not surprisingly she has really impressive stats.There is like no one important that has like a winning record against her.She has obliterated the entire field.

I find this amazing and needless to say virtually impossible to do nowadays.Federer seems to be the only tennis player that may achieve that feit!Also Steffi is the only tennis player to win all 4 slams at least 4 times.

What are your takes on this?Whats the reason for such dominance?

I just got back from the WTA site and OMW.....She has a 30-4 H2H against JANA NOVOTNA.I thought I was seeing things then I saw she has a 28-8 against Sanchez-Vicario.Talk about getting thrashed a few times!!!!!

roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao

I believe there's only one person she ever played more than once who has a winning head-to-head against her - and that's our own Jo Durie of all people (and Durie's wins came when Graf was very young)

Thats why I was selective in my choice of words and said nobody important.There is like no slam champions or any greats that have a winning record against her.!

Sanchez Vicario might be 8-28 against Steffi, but was one of the few women who could win slams and become world number one during Steffis reign, and some of their matches together were classics

Thats very true....Sanchez was my favourite in that Steffi time and she did mange to bagel Steffi quite a few times and beat her to win the US OPEN.So the head to head isnt a fair one coz the matches were always tough!

agreed, the 1996 RG final was my favourite match ever, closely followed by their 95 wimbledon final

96 Roland Garros,I am trying to get desperatly as I didnt see it.I recently got the US OPEN 94 and that Wimbledon 95.What great matches!

Amanda Coetzer held a winning head-head record vs Steffi for 1997 (just that year):

1997 AUSTRALIAN OPEN - A. COETZER 6-2 7-5
1997 BERLIN-GERMAN OPEN - A. COETZER 6-0 6-1
1997 STRASBOURG S. GRAF 4-6 7-5 7-6(4)
1997 FRENCH OPEN - A. COETZER 6-1 6-4

Still wasn't that the year Steffi began to get injured.... but I think Amanda is credited with giving Steffi her worst Grand Slam defeat....look at that breadstick!

(Overall their h2h is 11-4 to Steffi)

Steffi, Martina and Chrissie all have very impressive head to heads.

The only player today who has such commanding head to heads over the top players (of which there are more), is Serena. Although not by as wide a margin as these three do.

O and yes 1997 and 1998 were years where Steffi suffered terribly form injuries and hardly played. Then 1999 was her comeback and final year :(

It also seems like she was like a Demi-GOD when she was playing.I must agree that those 3 you pointed out Serenaw19 all have really impressive tennis resume's and records against just about everyone!

Steffi generally struggled on clay with people that generate that extra spin and Coetzer was a scrapper much like Sanchez-Vicario so thats why she battled in 1997 accompanied with her injuries!

Good topic Dark,
you ask 'What are your takes on this?Whats the reason for such dominance?'
Well there's the obvious, she was bloody good, tenacity, strong mentally a great athlete, killer forehand and sliced backhand
HOWEVER at the risk of raising heckles everywhere, i'm gonna play the 'weak era' card. Yes she was talented, (we'll ignore her ball toss for now) but i don't think her level of talent should have allowed her quite the domination she had.
You mention Novotna and Sanchez Vicario. Novotna was the arch choker, and lost to Graf when she clearly should have won, eg 1993 Wimbledon final. Sanchez Vicario had the tenacity but not the belief to win consistently, in other words competition who just couldn't take there chances when it really counted.
Throw into the discussion the Seles stabbing, now i'm not saying Seles would have continued to dominate in the slams indefinitely, but it was shaping up to be the big rivalry of her career, not unlike navratilova/evert .
When she came on to the tennis scene Navratilova and Evert were well past there best.
in her last few years i reckon she won a few matches because a few players were playing the legend not the player.
When she beat Hingis in the French final, i was well chuffed, but it was pretty obvious Hingis was the better player by far-hingis was childish that day and the french crowed turned ugly, hingis capitulated, all Graf had to do was stay on court to win.
Graf made the most of everything she had and i'm not saying with bigger competiton graf still wouldn't have been top, but not by as much, then she bagged Agassi, what more can i say.

She was amazing!She had an aura the minute she walked onto the court.Jana was an Oscar Winning Choker.She really made me laugh that 1993 Wimbledon when she started serving over the court and then you go and cry on the Dutchess's shoulder drenching her in salty water!But she was weak.

Sanchez-Vicario,my girl,had Steffi on the ropes so many times.I guess I have to concur with you here in saying that she didnt believe in herslef enough to win.Seles and the stabbing really I dont think should be used.Steffi like I said on another post of mine would still have evenutually come out on top in their rivalry.

Steffi was good.I hope the tennis world yields forth another great women champion like Federer in the mens.Quite frankly womens tennis nowadys is a joke!

http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/2/playe...=70044&x=12&y=5

The above is the link to her H2H with Gabby Sabatini.Another dismal one sided domination,29-11 in favour of Graf.But Gabby did squeeze a major off her.But I mean Graf was bagelling this women left right and centre and won the first 11 meetings.Domination like this truly doesnt exist today!

The women today need to look back at the women from Steffis time and use it as a tool of inspiration.The women were much more competitive back then.And they played for the love of the game and not money like nowadays!

I thought Serena might dominate in the same kind of way, but with injuries and dare i say it, a lack of dedication it never happened for a sustained period.

It boils down to just plain laziness and the fact that she made so much money and won everything at least once so why should she care!

I really want Serena to get some drive back really!

Sanchez-Vicario never had belief :o

Half the time all she had was belief, she was the ultimate scrapper, running around the court chasing balls down. She didn't have a fifth of Steffi's talent but managed to beat her on the big stage on several occassions due to the fact that she never gave up; and of course she was very good at tennis, which helps.

She believed that she could get evey ball back and that was as far as it went against Steffi.She shouldve won Wimbledon 95 and that was my most heartbreaking loss for her.I just watched it last week for the first time since I watched it in 95.

She also shouldve won Roland Garros 96.That girl was my favourite in those time because she was a fighter.She really shouldve have won more SLAMS and more matches against Steffi.

I know what you mean Serena, Sanchez-Vicario did have that great scrapping quality to here game,
and in a broad sense clearly had self belief, as you suggest it's what her game was built around.
But specifically in matches against graf, she lacked her opponents cool mental reserve.
Why do i think this?
They often had very close matches. The fact that they were often closely fought suggests she could clearly live with Grafs tennis,
but at crucial moments, the slight chink in her otherwise robust psychological characture was the crucial determining factor.
So close matches with Graf were more often than not lost, when in terms of tennis alone Sanchez could hold her own.
As i say it's only a slight chink her armour, but that can make a huge difference on outcomes over a long period.

AGREED! :ok:

Steffi, I dont know much about her but i reckon, sharapova and henin would make minced meat of her. roflmao

Well I agree with that, but very few people in the history of tennis have the mental coolness of Steffi in tight situations...

And thus you prove your first point roflmao

Chairman,you are actually talking kuk if you believe Steffi will get beaten by those 2 jokes!

‘So close matches with Graf were more often than not lost, when in terms of tennis alone Sanchez could hold her own.’

It’s equally likely that Sanchez had to play to the absolute limit of her physical capacity and tennis ability to live with Graf. While she maintained this absolute peak, the match would remain tight, but as soon as her level dropped slightly – as it almost inevitably would – Graf would pounce.

I really liked Sanchez, but you could put a case for saying she over-achieved as much as under-achieved, given that she did so well with a game that relied largely on running about a lot and never giving up.

Not saying you’re wrong, Todger, just that there are other possible explanations…

The point you make is a good one Sportsrep and as we can't look into there souls for the truth, we'll have to agree to differ,
I think them going toe to toe through long grinding matches then Sanchez succumbing because she couldn't keep it up physically rather than mentally late in the third set sounds slightly less likely than my theory, BUT you could be right-but it's fun to speculate.

Its a bit hard to speculate about Sanchez's mental strength over her physical strength.Im baffled at which she gave up on first!

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

I don't think she ever gave up personally. She kept on running until she ran up to the net to shake Steffi's hand.

That was so funny Serena,but your bum...I love Sanchez...LOL!

Sanchez is my favourite player ever, i even put her above Mary :o I was devasted when she retired, and believe it or not, i was gutted when Mary won the AO because she beat Sanchez in the final

Pierce really was out for revenge in that final Liam, she completely ransacked the spaniard with her forehand :o

Was it you that said she is like a comet and she comes into prominence every 5 years? roflmao roflmao

Me and Dav have mentioned it liam roflmao

roll on Wimbledon 2010 roflmao

I'd say two things: talent and mental strength.

Steffi definitley had the skill, her game may well be torn apart by Sharapova as some say, but the game has move don in terms of power and so it's a pointless comparison. That forehand was viscious and accurate and her athleticism and movement were amazing. The thing with Steffi though was that she was simply one of life's winners and refused to lie down. Stefii's scrapping abilites seem to be forgotten as everyone remembers Sanchez Vs (and a great little scrapper she was indeed). Thing is though we alsways seem to remember those who keep losing matches but refuse to give up easily as scrappers, whereas with Steffi won so often that we forget just how deep she could dig in tricky situations and she dug herself out of loads. Look at Wimby with Novotna - that wasn't just down to Jana choking, it was Steffi's refusal to accept defeat. You of course need talent to pull off wins BUT without that sheer determination and the attitude of a champion you won't win a thing. And that IMO is why Steffi was so dominant.

As far as a weak era is concerned, i don't buy that arguement. Often a so called weak era is created by a player who truly outstanding - we've all heard that argument levelled at Federer but it is a loa dof old bull IMO. Before Graf, Martina was virtually untouchable and surely raised the standard for Steffi to then step in and rasie it again. Of course, there is the Seles factor, and I don't doubt that Monica was robbed fo fulfilling her true potential BUT really she may not have stopped Steffi winning as often as some might think. And Steffi's achievements should still be considered remarkable, even if Monica had never existed.

Anyway, moving on to today's game - sure there is mor epower but does anyone have a forehand as accurate and consitent as Grafs? Sometimes Kuznetsova reminds me of Steffi in that respect, but she really lacks the consistency and the mental strength. And mentally, the onyl players I think that would have been tough enough in the head to stand a chance against Steffi are Sharapova, the Williamses and JHH. Sorry if I missed anyone but I can't think of anyone at the mo.

Great post SB, agree entirely :ok:

I would just like to address the issue of Sharapova being MORE than a match for Steffi, and Steffi only being "troublesome" for her. I think the game has moved on but not THAT much. Power game is more prevalent, so Steffi would probably drop more sets to the final week of a slam but she would still get there. Her forehand had some thwap! Only Serena and Kuzzy probably have such a powerful forehands in the current generation.
Stefffi could cut the power game with peak Monica Seles, 1999 Williams sisters and Lindsay Davenport. I think she could manage Sharapova without a doubt; although the matches wouldn't always be easy of course and she wouldn't dominate their head to head. It would be something like 10-6 maybe I reckon. But Steffi is possibly the fittest, most athletic tennis player in history (man or woman), so I don't think she would look out of place at all in todays game, or if the likes of Sharapova were playing in the 90's. I don't really compare eras, but Im sure Steffi would be a multi-grand slam winner in any era :ok:

i think that Steffi would have had an even more powerful if she had grown up in this era, it's now a more standard approach with up and coming players, so that aspect of her game would be more developed plus she had more of an al round game than Sharapova, and i think she get the better of sharapova more often than not.

Guys,truly great thoughts and opinions.I really do appreciate it.Superbrat I have to agree with you and SerenaW19.Truly interesting!

Glad you liked my post :D

I think you could be right there. I was thinking about this today, and Steffi's forehand was hardly lightweight was it? She was much more athletic and had better movement than many of today's lot, Sharapova especially who moves clumsily at times adn whilst she still might be able to chase down and thwack a lot of balls back, Steffi's placement was excellent and I can see her putting loads of forehand winners past Maria down the lines. Of course Maria would be a mentally tougher opponent and have more never-give-up attitude than many of her past opponents, but dont; forget Steffi did beat Monica, Xrantha and the likes, and Martina of course so she would be well up for the challenge. It's such a shame we will never see isn't it?

Cheers DN, it's rare anyone agrees with me but there you go. :)

Another thing, Steffi's serve was excellent, faster than Maria's and better placed. She had good variation on it too, so it was difficult to read. This was often a key component in her game, I mean Steffi got broken probably less than Federer does!