Well, between all the players here, we should be able to answer any question regarding any Rules Queries that come up, and especially as gronk, Big Al and myself seem to come up with an answer to a rule querey every week between the three of us!

Even if we do get it wrong, disagree, argue, threaten each other with sharp objects / blubt objects / small children and dice! :D

But yeah, go ahead an post...about time we had some online arguments

Well, I would not know, as most of the latest ones, I have got right!

Since I have suggested to start a thread like this, I start some questions:

Banner of the Burrows (Vampire Counts magic standart)
Always hit the enemy on 3+ regardless of weapon skill. Does that mean that a unit with this Banner even hit the enemy on 3+ if he is defending an obstacle?

Shooting
It has become a custom ar our lokal gaming club that you assign all your targets for each unit shooting before you roll any dice.
I do know that you don't have to do this ( the rulebook just says you shhot with one unit after each other begiining with guessing weapons. I would like to know how you handle the shooting phase.

I think the Banner of the Barrows is for hitting normally, so the opponents would still get the 6's rule for the obstruction....

My interpretation.

We always nominate targets before shooting, but if you destroy a unit with missle fire, you can re-direct your shots, if there is another availible target...

Well, I don;t have my VC book (someone has borowed it), but I would have to differ and say that you always hit your opponent on a 3+ regardless of scenery.

As for the 2nd, as RD says.

I shall pinneth this one :thumbsup:

Sorry, RD, I’m with gronk on this one :P

Vampire Counts Armybook, page 51 “(…) will hit the enemy on a 3+, regardless of relative Weapon Skills or any other modifier.” Any rule lawyer would argue that hitting troops behind obstacles on sixes isn’t really a modifier but IMO it is. Your chance to hit an enemy behind a defended obstacle is modified in such a way that you can only hit on sixes; hence it is a modifier. And since the banner allows your Wights to hit on 3+ regardless… they will hit on 3+ :huh:

In cases where a rule like the one with the defended obstacle contradict a special rule of a magical item – the rule for the magical item takes precedence (BRB page 152).

Ah, if it says or any other modifier then I would agree with both of you.

If it just said, hits on a 3+, I would argue that the modifier would over rule it. Also, as Manfred points out, their is a Magic vs Mundane rule.

So, magic Auto hit weapons would ignore modifiers?

And, magic modifiers to WS would not get any bonus in this situation?

Ehh :huh:

If you have a weapon that auto hit you hit automatically; modifiers are irrelevant in this case.

Or perhaps I misunderstood your question?

Yes, I should not have put a question mark in there, just left it as a statement. But the second one is a question. If you have a weapon that gives you a bonus to your weapon skill, you would still need a 6 to hit. Also, if you have a spell or something that lowers your weapon skill, you also need a 6 to hit...

Man, I am getting old. Was looking for this thread and didn't notice that it was pinned.

OK, let us take a deeper look into the can of worms; realigning charge targets:
If you have several enemy units as possible targets for your charging unit and your original target units flees (volountarily, failed fear/terror check), can you simply pick another target?
The way we handle the issue is, that you can only pick another unit if it becomes a target after the original unit has fled.
How do you hadnle situations like this?

I think there is much on this in the various rule books, and compendium type things. I will read through these before I reply.


I also lost the thread before I spotted it was pinned.

Are we still talking about someone that is attacking an enemy that is behind a defended obstacle? It doesn’t matter if you get a bonus to your Weapon Skill since Weapon Skill is irrelevant so these ‘rules’ does not contradict each other.

You can not redirect a charge against an enemy that you could have charged in the first place. Can’t give you a page reference but I’m pretty sure that is the official version. That is how we do it anyway. :unsure:

Yes, and then the "Run Away" tactic would be useless!

Well, less powerful.

I need to bring a rule book to work now!

I think you can only charge a unit which was not visible or was not a valid target before the charge. For example a unit of goblins screening their Black Orc bosses. They flee from the charge and theBlack Orcs become available...fine.

BUt if you charge a unit of goblins, who flee, but then choose to target the unit next to them which were visible and a valid target to begin with, then no.

Just my interpretation.

Back to the undead query.
I'm still convinced you can hit a unit on an unmdified 3+ regardless of cover, bad smells, ugliness etc.

May throw this question onto WargamerAU later today!

Yes, that is the way I would see it as well.

At least we are all unanamous on the Undead thingy :D

**Starts to dance***

Ok, here is a rule.


Charecters have to use the same weapon they start with in Combat

EXCEPT Brettonians.

So, if a Blood Dragon Lord , on horse, with lance, charges into combat and uses his lance, he then defers to hand weapon OR
he uses his magic sword/axe/mace/flail/wand/fish slice from the start.....

Everybody on another website seems unanamous with this.

Also, if you take the magic sword, you HAVE to use it!

Never really an issue with a Blood Dragon, you have uber stats to begin with, the lance is a hinderance, so buggrit, go straight to the sword and hack 'em all!

Not only Characters but also your rank & file troopers. So, if you have equipped your clansmen with great weapons, heavy amor and shield you have to decide in the first round of combat if your use your GW or use the extra protection offered by the hand weapon and shield combination. It is not allowed to change your combat style while the melee is still going on.

I am trying to clarify if you HAVE to use magic weapons if you take them, or if you can select at the start of combat.

Your Views?

If your charakter has a magic weapon he has to use it. I *think* the only exception to this rule are Bretonians (as you have mentioned above). They can use the lance on their charge and use their magigical weapon in later combat rounds.
While we are at it: Orcs armed with choppas do not beneit from the hand weapon and shield rule.

They don't!

gronk will be upset.

Yes, there is a rules errata, which says IF you take a magic weapon, you HAVE to use it.

Weapons bonuses and combinations are a bit of a tricky one to get the hang of really.

He'll survive it. Ever imagined how an instructer is going to teach some Orcs how to feint, parry and use shieldblocking techiques?

Giants crossing obstacles.

I thought that Giants just need to roll a 2 or better to cross linear obstacles (walls, hedges fences, etc.) and fall down on a roll of 1.
But they suffer normal movement restrictions if they enter difficult ground like woods (i.e. half movement and no march move). Am I mistaken?

No, as far as I know you are right :)

Wot?!? I have been duped? I'll make him pay for that! Well, I already have but that won't change anything :P
I am going to demand a rematch for the bloody massacre I caused on him and I will bear a beard of enormous proportions (in form of an Anvil of Doom and Truthsayer).

Don’t forget about the Kislevite fast cavalry! ;)

Question: does a character in the front row of a 4 wide unit with full command still get a look-out-sir roll? There are no "normal" rank and file models in the front rank.

Yes he does. It doesn't matter what kind of models are positioned in the front, but the character should have the same base size as the unit he is attached to and the unit should have at least 5 models to give him the "Look out, Sir!" benefit.

I believe the rulebook says “similar base size” but I’m not sure. So if that’s true an Orc Character would benefit from the Look our, Sir rule if he is in a unit of Goblins.

But I may be wrong here, and I can’t find the BRB anywhere :(

Yep, you are right Manfred. It doesen't matter if the Character is mounted on a 25mm² joins a unit which has it's models on 20mm² bases. They do both count as infantry models and thus he benefits from the "Look out, Sir!" rule.
However, an Orc Warlord hiding in a Goblin unit is clearly on a social downward spirale ;)

Mounted Characters do not get the benefits if attached to infantry unit and an "infantry" character does not get it if attached to a mounted unit. They can be singled out by other shooters as well (read:missile fire) unless there is a unit of at least 5 models of the same size within 5".
Characters on monstrous beasts, like Tyrion or the Archloser formaly known as the Everchosen are free prey even if attached to cavalry sized units.

Intersting, and duly noted. TYhanks guys!

Savage Orc Big Unz

Ok, I don't have an Orc & Goblin army book and I watched a game in our club last week between an Ogre King army and an Orc army.
Those Savage Orcs were euipped with spears and each one of them had three (3) !?! attacks. Well, I was under the impression that Big Unz only get their WS and S improved by 1 and they get an additional attack from being frenzied.
Is there a magical thingy which gives them an additional attack?
Having three attacks and fighting in two ranks make Khorne Chosen Knights look like a bunch of hippies(well, almost).

I’m no Orcs and Goblins expert but here goes:

Base 1A
Frenzy +1A
Nogg’s banner of Butchery +1A in one close combat phase (one use only)

In addition a Savage Orc Big ‘Un Boss would have a further +1A

The Big ‘Uns thing only give S+1 and WS+1, just like you said.

Thanks Manfred.
Do you still get the full number of attacks if fighting with spears from the second rank?
Still, some tough little critters they are.

Each model fighting gains an additional attack and if your spearboys got charged then yes. If your spearboys were the ones to charge, the second rank will not be able to attack (as dictated by the rules for spears) - and all this for a mere 25 points.

Just to clarify: you can only use the banner once in a single combat phase, regardless if you charged or not (I will edit my previous reply).

I have never seen it being used by spearboys before though; north of the Baltic Sea it is far more common to give Nogg’s banner of Butchery to a unit of boarboys or something (together with a hero armed with Porko’s Pigstikka). Ouch!

Ok, with my slowly growing army of High Elves (they are a dying race anyway), I realized they I simply do not understand the rules for fast cavalry, or the free reform thingy to name it exactly.
Can they march move and do the reform, or only move and then reform or just the reform without any move (but what would be the advantage for light cavalry then?).
Anyone with clues?

Hey Schugg,

Just to back up Manfred, Savage Boyz get +1 Attack for frenzy, and I often (almost always) give em an extra hand weapon to get 3 attacks. It aint possible with a spear to get 3 attacks fr a rank and file orc, unless as stated the Banner of Butchery is there. (for the first round of combat anyway).

Spears in asvage orcs is also a waste, as you will often be the one initiating the charge due to the rules of frenzy, and if you can't break the buggers in the first turn, it turns into a real slugfest!

Hmmm, then again, I guess I can see the advantage of spears, but doesn't fit in with my army concepts!

Fast cavalry get a free reform during their turn, at the beginnning, end or whenever. Basically they don't move like a normal unit, they tend to basically "dissolve" their formation, race to their objective, then reform again.

Rotten buggers! Especially if you are a dwarf!